Holder backs himself into a corner

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willbeurdaddy -> Holder backs himself into a corner (3/18/2010 3:46:25 PM)
"Holder characterized the whole discussion [regarding bin Laden being tried with US constitutional protections]as outside "reality." "You're talking about a hypothetical that will never occur," he said. "The reality is that we will be reading Miranda rights to the corpse of Usama bin laden. He will never be in an American courtroom. That's a reality." So in order to cover his own ass on a bad decision (that Obama almost certainly forced on him) he has to demean the efforts of the troops who's specific mission it is to capture OBL. He also gives the ME a sound bite that the US will murder OBL rather than bring him to justice. Nice hand, sir.

Real0ne -> RE: Holder backs himself into a corner (3/18/2010 5:10:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy "Holder characterized the whole discussion [regarding bin Laden being tried with US constitutional protections]as outside "reality." "You're talking about a hypothetical that will never occur," he said. "The reality is that we will be reading Miranda rights to the corpse of Usama bin laden. He will never be in an American courtroom. That's a reality." So in order to cover his own ass on a bad decision (that Obama almost certainly forced on him) he has to demean the efforts of the troops who's specific mission it is to capture OBL. He also gives the ME a sound bite that the US will murder OBL rather than bring him to justice. Nice hand, sir. OBL was dead in 2002, they shot bhutta for outing it because dubya still had a few more tapes he wanted to scare the losers with. He was in the american hospital in dubai about the time those slledged planes went into the wtc with the CIA. OBL was a dual citizen.... oh the shock! Since he is dead he can say with certainty that OBL will never show up in an american court. LMAO No big conspiracy there

rulemylife -> RE: Holder backs himself into a corner (3/18/2010 5:18:04 PM)
I'm not going to do a search to find out what you are talking about when you are too lazy to post a link on your own thread.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Holder backs himself into a corner (3/18/2010 5:39:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife I'm not going to do a search to find out what you are talking about when you are too lazy to post a link on your own thread. I provided the quote. In the time you wasted on another snarky post you could have found it. FOM.

pahunkboy -> RE: Holder backs himself into a corner (3/18/2010 6:52:30 PM)
I wish he could spend a weekend with Alex Jones. Heck- I would get cable back to see that show!

Sanity -> RE: Holder backs himself into a corner (3/18/2010 8:09:43 PM)
Its in the news headlines, rml. Pick up a newspaper once in a while. To the OP, Holder's off his rocker. Didn't they say the same thing about Saddam? But they sure as hell captured him alive. We could very well see OBL Mirandaized and preaching his hate in an American court room. Pampered, lawyered up, and made to feel all nice and comfy and secure... Best tell the men who capture him they had better not ask him any tough questions, either - or they'll be the ones who are in trouble. quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife I'm not going to do a search to find out what you are talking about when you are too lazy to post a link on your own thread.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Holder backs himself into a corner (3/18/2010 8:12:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Its in the news headlines, rml. Pick up a newspaper once in a while. To the OP, Holder's off his rocker. Didn't they say the same thing about Saddam? But they sure as hell captured him alive. We could very well see OBL Mirandaized and preaching his hate in an American court room. Pampered, lawyered up, and made to feel all nice and comfy and secure... Best tell the men who capture him they had better not ask him any tough questions, either - or they'll be the ones who are in trouble. quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife I'm not going to do a search to find out what you are talking about when you are too lazy to post a link on your own thread. They also want to reduce the bounty for bringing him back alive. Wonder why?

slvemike4u -> RE: Holder backs himself into a corner (3/18/2010 8:25:34 PM)
Drones don't usually issue miranda warnings....now boys try to work with me here.....assume for a minute we get actionable intelligence concerning the whereabouts of one OBL.How do you think this Admin ,or any Admin, will react to that.....From where I sit the first thing they are going to do is retask the nearest armed drone and put a missile up his ass. Now I want all of you red blooded American conservatives to tell me what your problem is with that scenario?

Sanity -> RE: Holder backs himself into a corner (3/19/2010 3:39:13 AM)
Are you a betting man? Figure out your odds. It seems to me that we or our partners capture almost as many as we kill: OSAMA BIN LADEN (Saudi) - Al Qaeda supreme leader - AT LARGE AYMAN AL-ZAWAHRI (Egyptian) - bin Laden's doctor, spiritual adviser - AT LARGE MOHAMMED ATEF (Egyptian) - Al Qaeda chief of military operations - DEAD (killed in U.S. airstrikes near Kabul, Afghanistan) KHALID SHAIKH MOHAMMED (Kuwaiti) - suspected mastermind of Sept. 11 attacks - CAPTURED ABU ZUBAYDAH (Palestinian-Saudi) - terrorist coordinator - CAPTURED SAIF AL-ADIL (Egyptian) - bin Laden security chief - AT LARGE SHAIKH SAIID AL-MASRI (Egyptian) - bin Laden chief financier - AT LARGE ABD AL-RAHIM AL-NASHIRI (Saudi) - Persian Gulf operations chief - CAPTURED TAWFIQ ATTASH KHALLAD (Yemeni) - operational leader, suspected mastermind of USS Cole bombing in October 2000 - AT LARGE QAED SALIM SINAN AL-HARETHI (Yemeni) - Yemen operations chief - DEAD (Killed by Hellfire missile strike from US Predator drone in Yemen) OMAR AL-FAROUQ (Kuwaiti) - Southeast Asia operations chief - CAPTURED IBN AL-SHAYKH AL-LIBI (Libyan) - training camp commander - CAPTURED SAAD BIN LADEN, (Saudi) - bin Laden's son - AT LARGE ABU MOHAMMAD AL-MASRI [aka: Abdullah Ahmed Abdullah] (Egyptian) - training camp commander - At large - AT LARGE TARIQ ANWAR AL-SAYYID AHMAD (Egyptian) - operational planner - DEAD (Killed in U.S. airstrike near Khowst, Afghanistan) MOHAMMED SALAH (Egyptian) - operational planner - DEAD (Killed in U.S. airstrike near Khowst, Afghanistan) ABD AL-HADI AL-IRAQI - training camp commander - CAPTURED ABU MUSAB ZARQAWI (Jordanian) - operational planner - AT LARGE ABU ZUBAIR AL-HAILI (Saudi) - operational planner - CAPTURED ABU HAFS THE MAURITANIAN - operational and spiritual leader - AT LARGE SULAIMAN ABU GHAITH (Kuwaiti) - al-Qaida spokesman: AT LARGE MOHAMMED OMAR ABDEL-RAHMAN (Egyptian) - operational planner and trainer - AT LARGE MIDHAT MURSI (Egyptian) - chemical and bioweapons researcher - AT LARGE MOHAMMED JAMAL KHALIFA (Saudi) - financier - AT LARGE SAAD AL-SHARIF (Saudi) - financer - AT LARGE MUSTAFA AHMED AL-HISAWI - Sept. 11 financer - AT LARGE HAMZA AL-QATARI - financier - DEAD (killed in Afghanistan by US airstrikes) AHMAD SAID AL-KADR (Egyptian-Canadian) - financier - AT LARGE ZAID KHAYR - operational leader - AT LARGE ABU SALAH AL-YEMENI - logistics - DEAD (Killed during U.S. bombing of the terrorist training complex of Zawar Kili in eastern Afghanistan) ABU JAFAR AL-JAZIRI - aide to Abu Zubyadah - DEAD (Killed during U.S. bombing of the terrorist training complex of Zawar Kili in eastern Afghanistan) ABU BASIR AL-YEMENI (Yemeni) - aide to Osama bin Laden - AT LARGE ABD AL-AZIZ AL-JAMAL - aide to al-Zawahri - AT LARGE RAMZI BINALSHIBH, (Yemeni) - planner and organizer of Sept. 11 attacks - CAPTURED ZAKARIYA ESSABAR - member of cell with chief Sept. 11 hijacker Mohamed Atta - AT LARGE SAID BAHAJI - member of cell with chief Sept. 11 hijacker Mohamed Atta - AT LARGE

cadenas -> RE: Holder backs himself into a corner (3/19/2010 3:45:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy "Holder characterized the whole discussion [regarding bin Laden being tried with US constitutional protections]as outside "reality." "You're talking about a hypothetical that will never occur," he said. "The reality is that we will be reading Miranda rights to the corpse of Usama bin laden. He will never be in an American courtroom. That's a reality." So in order to cover his own ass on a bad decision (that Obama almost certainly forced on him) he has to demean the efforts of the troops who's specific mission it is to capture OBL. He also gives the ME a sound bite that the US will murder OBL rather than bring him to justice. Nice hand, sir. Interesting... We seem to be on the same side of the issue for a change! I, too, would want OBL tried in an American court, just like Timothy McVeigh, the Unabomber and any other ordinary criminal. But Holder is probably right. not gonna happen.

Sanity -> RE: Holder backs himself into a corner (3/19/2010 4:19:51 AM)
McVeigh, the Unabomber and OBL are "ordinary criminals"? [8\|] I can tell that you have much in common with this administration. Are you willing to go a little bit further and say with absolute certainty, as William Holder did, that OBL will not be captured alive? quote: ORIGINAL: cadenas Interesting... We seem to be on the same side of the issue for a change! I, too, would want OBL tried in an American court, just like Timothy McVeigh, the Unabomber and any other ordinary criminal. But Holder is probably right. not gonna happen.

Real0ne -> RE: Holder backs himself into a corner (3/19/2010 9:59:47 PM)
quote: Rep. Hinchey: Bush Administration 'Intentionally Let bin Laden Get Away' In Order To Justify Iraq War On Monday afternoon, Rep. Maurice Hinchey (D-New York) told MSNBC host David Shuster that the Bush administration "intentionally let bin Laden get away" <-- YOU MEAN THEY LIED???? in order to justify the Iraq war. Hinchey is from a historically Republican district (though it includes Democrat-heavy in places like Woodstock and Ithaca) and his statement seemed to shock Shuster. "Look what happened. Look what happened with regard to our invasion into Afghanistan. How we apparently intentionally let bin Laden get away. How we intentionally did not follow the Taliban and al Qaeda." Hinchey alleged that bin Laden was let go because "the previous administration... knew very well that if they would capture al Qaeda there would be no justification for an invasion in Iraq." Shuster, incredulous, pushed back: "You really believe that?" How can I say it? SUCKERS! Translation of Funeral Article in Egyptian Paper: al-Wafd, Wednesday, December 26, 2001 Vol 15 No 4633 News of Bin Laden's Death and Funeral 10 days ago Reported Funeral mid December 2001 [image]http://www.welfarestate.com/binladen/funeral/al-wafd02.jpg[/image] [image]http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/funeral.jpg[/image] Islamabad - A prominent official in the Afghan Taleban movement announced yesterday the death of Osama bin Laden, the chief of al-Qa'da organization, stating that binLaden suffered serious complications in the lungs and died a natural and quiet death. The official, who asked to remain anonymous, stated to The Observer of Pakistan that he had himself attended the funeral of bin Laden and saw his face prior to burial in Tora Bora 10 days ago. He mentioned that 30 of al-Qa'da fighters attended the burial as well as members of his family and some friends from the Taleban. In the farewell ceremony to his final rest guns were fired in the air. The official stated that it is difficult to pinpoint the burial location of bin Laden because according to the Wahhabi tradition no mark is left by the grave. He stressed that it is unlikely that the American forces would ever uncover any traces of bin Laden. [Welfare State]

cadenas -> RE: Holder backs himself into a corner (3/20/2010 2:45:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity McVeigh, the Unabomber and OBL are "ordinary criminals"? [8\|] They aren't? What are they, then? They killed people (or arranged for the killing). That makes them murderers. Plain and simple.

Sanity -> RE: Holder backs himself into a corner (3/20/2010 5:57:16 AM)
Mass murdering as many innocent civilians as possible in order to terrorize a given population or populations into giving in to political or religious demands is called terrorism and terrorism is deemed by most civilized people as being beyond mere crime, especially when a major organization such as a nation or a religious group form a major global operation expressly for the purpose of fomenting terrorism. Then it becomes a terroristic war, and its not a mere crime. It is a war, and they're war criminals who commit terrorism. Not mere criminals at all, but war criminals - terrorists. quote: ORIGINAL: cadenas quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity McVeigh, the Unabomber and OBL are "ordinary criminals"? [8\|] They aren't? What are they, then? They killed people (or arranged for the killing). That makes them murderers. Plain and simple.

mnottertail -> RE: Holder backs himself into a corner (3/20/2010 7:14:09 AM)
But we are not at war, that's been made clear for years and years. Ron

Sanity -> RE: Holder backs himself into a corner (3/20/2010 7:16:53 AM)
We may not be at war, but it only takes one side for a war to be on. quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail But we are not at war, that's been made clear for years and years. Ron

mnottertail -> RE: Holder backs himself into a corner (3/20/2010 7:18:59 AM)
So, like if we can nuke the world 40 times over (making folks deader somehow) killing is a crime but terrorism a supercrime, so we have to kill them more than once or what have we got here? Its a fuckin crime.

rulemylife -> RE: Holder backs himself into a corner (3/20/2010 2:17:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail So, like if we can nuke the world 40 times over (making folks deader somehow) killing is a crime but terrorism a supercrime, so we have to kill them more than once or what have we got here? We have to torture them first and then kill them. It's the new American way.

Sanity -> RE: Holder backs himself into a corner (3/20/2010 4:08:28 PM)
So now we've come full circle to the reason Holder is insisting its impossible for us to catch Bin Laden alive - he knows that if we do, Bin Laden will have to be made as comfortable as possible within the United States proper, he'll have to be Mirandized before he's questioned, he'll have a lawyer appointed to him and enjoy every right that every American citizen enjoys as if he were a full citizen, and he'll have to be given a bully pulpit at his trial from which he'll urge on a greater level of Holy War against us, aka the Great Satan. quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail So, like if we can nuke the world 40 times over (making folks deader somehow) killing is a crime but terrorism a supercrime, so we have to kill them more than once or what have we got here? We have to torture them first and then kill them. It's the new American way.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Holder backs himself into a corner (3/20/2010 4:13:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity So now we've come full circle to the reason Holder is insisting its impossible for us to catch Bin Laden alive - he knows that if we do, Bin Laden will have to be made as comfortable as possible within the United States proper, he'll have to be Mirandized before he's questioned, he'll have a lawyer appointed to him and enjoy every right that every American citizen enjoys as if he were a full citizen, and he'll have to be given a bully pulpit at his trial from which he'll urge on a greater level of Holy War against us, aka the Great Satan. quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail So, like if we can nuke the world 40 times over (making folks deader somehow) killing is a crime but terrorism a supercrime, so we have to kill them more than once or what have we got here? We have to torture them first and then kill them. It's the new American way. Thats not quite his motivation Sanity. He knows that there is no way in hell that the public would stand for treating OBL the same way he proposes to treat the other 9/11 conspirators. The public is overwhelmingly against treating civilian trials for them even. Since he cant justify treating OBL any differently from them, he either has to admit he is wrong about the others, or claim that it will never be an issue because OBL will be dead.

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