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stupid union.......? - 3/19/2010 1:43:26 PM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		In a move that isnt going to help Gordon Brown retain his premiership in the forthcoming election the Unite union is going ahead with strikes for cabin crew on British Airways this weekend with more to come. Unite donates around 25% of the Labour party's funding, including sponsorship for individual Labour MPs.

The conflict has arisen as BA attempts to reduce operating costs in an economic recession where it is also competing against no frills carriers.

Public opinion might be behind the union members - except that the last time this conflict came up around Christmas, it emerged that BA cabin crew are on 50% higher pay and package than other airlines' cabin crew. At a time when thousands are losing their jobs, going on short time, making sensible settlements to keep their jobs and so on, my feeling is that the public are more likely backing BA over the workers.

Meanwhile Gordon Brown is caught between his support of the market and big business and his reliance on Unite for election funding. As Prime Minister he obviously can be seen to be a required mediator to encourage settlement and yet he finds his hands tied.

Whilst the Labour party tries to deflect attention to Conservative reliance on one very substantial backer and the apparent behind the scenes dealing done to grant him a peerage when he pays no UK tax despite committing to do so (and apparently giving that saved tax to the Conservative party), this doesnt seem to be working well.

My view is that unions are a good thing - in fact a right of workers and probably the only way to stand up against often stupid employers. But in this instance it is the union that is wrong, and its members too who voted 90% in favour of strike action, and it is therefore the union that is stupid.

E

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RE: stupid union.......? - 3/19/2010 6:41:21 PM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		Unions that support worker'srights are a good thing when it comes to fighting against employers and their designs on increasing profit at worker's expense, but there comes a time when a union becomes that powerful they become a political machine within themselves. My understanding of the 1980's Thatcher reign was against such unions who had the power to bring the country to a standstill over the most trivial of disagreements, Thatcher in what she did, I suspect her desire was not to bring the unions down to size, but crush them completely and there leave the worker open to whatever happens, which in the case of the miners, was the shutting down of pits and mass unemployment, the workers were punished for the union's power. Thatcher wanted to end the power of the workers over the power of the government.

A little ironic now that we find the union behind the BA strike is one of the Labour party's biggest supporter and financier, and that which we understand is similar with the rival Conservative party, is, a wealthy tax dodger given a title and controlling position in exchange for monetary contributions.

The bottom line, both parties are full of sleaze and favour.

But, the BA affair, a union that is flexing it's muscles in the run up to an election, what does this say, is the Unite union reminding Brown and Labour that they have the power to make or break the party, or is it they have tired of labour and seek a new puppet.

Of what we have the two main contenders for the next government, a party funded by nation stopping worker's unions, or a party funded by tax dodgers given title and power for money, where should one vote, as both are as despicable as each other.


< Message edited by Aneirin -- 3/19/2010 6:54:46 PM >

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RE: stupid union.......? - 3/19/2010 6:51:42 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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Status: offline 		Regardless of the funding situation I don't think most people will make the link between the government and the union. If the union was expecting special favours or privileges for their buck then that wasn't what they got when senior labour figures condemned the strike.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 3/19/2010 6:52:10 PM >

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RE: stupid union.......? - 3/19/2010 7:03:45 PM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		The senior Labour figures had to condemn the strike to appease the financial world,whom hold ulimate power but in doing so, they have basically crapped on the doorstep of their bank. A shitty situation for Labour, but they chose their backers.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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RE: stupid union.......? - 3/20/2010 4:38:04 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		The Labour party grew from the unions we should remember, and grew in that way in a time when things were still pretty bad for workers despite progress over the end of the 19th and early 20th centuries as the country became more liberal and conditions at work and in general had been transformed compared to the start of the industrial era. The situation today is utterly transformed again compared to a century ago, with living and working conditions unimaginable to our predecessors, especially the notion that one might be out of work long term and yet not be destitute.

We have the liberal movement to thank for the first half of this transformation and, notwithstanding the continued contribution of the liberals since, the labour movement for the remainder. We should always bear in mind the deeply entrenched attitudes and vested interests these movements fought against, at cost to life and limb in some instances, so that the likes of us can sit here today discussing it all, rather than being halfway through a 14 hour shift about this time of a Saturday morning. And we should always bear in mind that those attitudes and interests have never been defeated as such, and are ever striving to roll back on what has been achieved - all the way if it they could achieve that, since the profit accumulating to them in such case should be monumental.

But this is not such a case. This is rather a union and worker members of that union that dont appear to get it that they have such a cushy deal as to be unbelievable to other workers, even other workers doing the same work for other employers. The union is stupid in this instance, because it appears to want to fight a battle that has really already been won for fair wages and conditions against an economic backdrop where the employer is in big trouble and union demands and intransigence to required changes to keep jobs may end up in company failure or public bail out that shall do unions in general no favours when, all in all, the public opinion is for unions especially after what Thatcher did for labour relations.

Gordon Brown meanwhile has painted himself into a corner - the big buddy of the markets can do nothing here without losing his new acquaintances or his old friends. Perhaps this is the end of the "third way"?

E

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RE: stupid union.......? - 3/20/2010 7:14:55 AM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		I understand the union in this case is stupid, and I do understand the airline workers whom the union represents have it  cushy compared to other in other airlines, but I feel the Union this close to a General election is making a point. That coupled with the news that the railway workers are going out on strike at Easter. Too many strikes are happening, and all of them to do with public transport, I believe a point is trying to be made, there is a common thought running around the Union bosses, and all of it impacts on New Labour.

Maybe if the Labour party is to succeed, it needs to be more Labour than New Labour, for when Labour was elected in the first call for change after Conservative rule, the people that voted Labour thought they were getting the familiar party of the people of old who would sort things out, what they actually got was a pillock with presidential style ambitions that took us into an war based on lies and a recession so deep, it would have made the boom and bust of the past pale into insignificance.

Brown, the current PM by succession was implicit in Blair's ideas, but at least now he is having to deal with the after effects of New Labour's whacky policies, he is bobbing around in shit of his own making, justice of a kind as far as he is concerned, but Blair had the sense of a rat leaving a sinking ship, he jumped when he knew the time was right to avoid public condemnation.

Yes, maybe there is a call for Labour of old to return, more power to the people, not the corporate interests, perhaps even,  a call for balance.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 3/20/2010 7:15:23 AM >

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RE: stupid union.......? - 3/20/2010 7:35:06 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		Well personally I'd say the problem with the union movement is one deriving from its takeover by the left wing which in turn is informed by socialist and communist ideals and enamoured of an authoritarian necessity in enforcing those ideals on its members, regardless of their individual ideas and opinions. From there, the link to the Labour party is not merely in terms of funding but also policy and even electoral candidates such that the Labour party is not a party standing for workers' but rather for the ideals of socialism and communism, and yet (again) invites support not for workers' interests or according to their ideas but according to socialist and communist ideals.

In recent times these ideals have been suppressed even within the Labour party in order to secure support from an electorate that (a) believes socialist and communist ideals unrealistic, and (b) believes the Conservative party to be opposed to the wider public interest, but supports a moderate, even liberal, version of their policies. That this strike action should occur now may be some message from the unions that they require Labour to move left, but on past experience and current mood this should be disastrous for them and also ignores that all in all the causes of these strikes have long been building up and are more likely coincidental to a forthcoming election.  

E

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RE: stupid union.......? - 3/20/2010 7:53:38 AM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		The power that a Union wields, to control the actions of many, their subscriptors, has a danger within itself. The danger being a Union can raise the working standards of their members and industry itself by it's motivational power to a point where the unreasonable becomes the unintended goal. Keep raising standards and eventually if left, it will arrive at the situation where workers already comfortable in their work are called out to strike for the most stupidest of notions.
If that situation ever occurred then Unions are in danger of losing membership through people thinking they are already more than comfortable in their work and being called out on strike for trivialities is just flexing of muscles no more. Or the reverse could happen, people comfortable in their work hide behind the Union power, go with whatever they say to detriment of industry and their very jobs. The question is, has anyone ever known balance in industry/Union relations, a point where both parties work together to achieve a common goal, or is that too near to communism.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: stupid union.......? - 3/20/2010 8:10:28 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		The unions will always push though, thats their job. And if you read up on some the reasons for strikes through the 70s and especially demarcation disputes, the need for reform becomes obvious, even though it went much too far. I dont believe union leaders, for the most part, are so stupid to kill the golden egg laying goose but without strong enough counter measures, it could easily be so and yes, its balance we need and there are more and better ways to get that without communism, though whether capitalism should survive them is doubtful.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: stupid union.......? - 3/20/2010 9:37:28 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Ah, yes, of course, the workers co operative, what better employment than working for the betterment of something you own.

But of co operatives, are they open to all, and how does a co operative work in competition to normal employment, does the co operative have the advantage, and if so what does that do for those not in a co operative. What about those who wish to work for a co operative, are they required to have funding to join in, to buy in perhaps or are the gates firmly shut against those that lack the funds. If more co operatives come into being as it is the best alternative for the worker, will that set up resentment with those outside of the 'club'.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: stupid union.......? - 3/20/2010 9:41:49 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		I've always felt that Labour's treatment of the unions since '97 has been completely reprehensible, given where they get most of their funding. I can't say I feel too much sympathy over this blowing up in Broon's face during the run up to a general election.

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RE: stupid union.......? - 3/20/2010 10:16:40 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		The Unite Union is Labour's biggest contributor, but where else do they get their funding, perhaps it was hoped New Labour with it's new ways would attract funding from sources other than Unions, so they could break away and become yet another conservative party, but for all their grovelling to finance and industry, they have failed to attract the backers they perhaps sought. What is happening now, might be the old power reigning in the wayward offspring.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: stupid union.......? - 3/20/2010 10:42:33 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		It'd be nice to think so. Sadly nuLabour's still being run by a monetarist junta who are no more socialists than I'm getting my cock sucked by Alyson Hannigan.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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