RE: Where is the compassion? (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 1:01:58 PM)

quote:

The division on this issue is whether or not health care should be delivered to all ineffciently, or just to some efficiently. The former position posits compassion over cash, the latter cash over compassion.


As well as relying on the Perfectionist fallacy.



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 1:05:09 PM)

First they canceled the people with pre-existing conditions, but I did not speak out—because I was happy with the health insurance I had through my employer.

Then they canceled the people who had lost their jobs, but I did not speak out—because I was happy with the health insurance I had through my employer.

Then they canceled the people who who were so sick they had exceeded their lifetime coverage limits, but I did not speak out—because I was happy with the health insurance I had through my employer.

Then they canceled my insurance because my employer could no longer afford it—and there was no one left  to speak out for me.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 1:18:25 PM)

What the liberals fail to accept is that compassion is not the same as being willing to have your pocket picked. There is a difference between willing to give someone the shirt off your back vs having someone come along and say give me your coat and i'll give it to someone of my choosing, whether they really need it or not.



slvemike4u -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 1:34:46 PM)

And is someone coming along and demanding your coat willbeur.....perhaps you need a bodygaurd?



Aylee -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 1:37:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

And is someone coming along and demanding your coat willbeur.....perhaps you need a bodygaurd?


Sheesh Mike!  Don't you know that you are supposed to sell your coat and buy a sword?  What would you need a bodyguard for after that?



LadyAngelika -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 1:38:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

What the liberals fail to accept is that compassion is not the same as being willing to have your pocket picked. There is a difference between willing to give someone the shirt off your back vs having someone come along and say give me your coat and i'll give it to someone of my choosing, whether they really need it or not.


There's that whole lack of trust that seems to be at the root of the problem again.

In a stable society, the opposition should not be the enemy. It should be the opposition.

- LA



philosophy -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 1:44:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

What the liberals fail to accept is that compassion is not the same as being willing to have your pocket picked.


...so would you accept that an individual has the right to opt out of that portion of the tax they pay that goes to military funding?




slvemike4u -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 1:46:59 PM)

An interesting analogy wiilbeur, and perhaps I should not have been so glib about it.I'm curious though,in your analogy there are these coats taken from one and given to another...and here is where it gets interesting you say "whether they really need it or not".
Since the subject at hand,or at least behind the thread is health care...is it your contention that some don't actually "need" basic health care.....or taking us full circle to the compassion angle...are you substituting need for deserve?
Granted I have made an assumption here and assumed that coats equal health care....but taking into account context.......where else could I go?
As an aside current projections give the Dems 220 votes.....the meaning of that should be self evident.



TheHeretic -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 2:36:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
 

In a stable society, the opposition should not be the enemy. It should be the opposition.




LOL!  You aren't from around here, are you?



rulemylife -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 2:42:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


So you've served (and yes, I did), without being aware of the percentage of support personnel to combat troops?  Without seeing the levels of chickenshit and bureaucracy?  Completely unaware of the procurement process?  Never ran across rules set based on the politically correct theories of people with no conception of the facts on the ground?




Have you ever worked for a major corporation? 

It is no different, which is why I find this debate about health care so astounding.

There are people who somehow believe there are no corporate bureaucracies worse than any government entity.



TheHeretic -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 2:49:25 PM)

Try reading all the posts, RML, instead of just the ones you feel competent to pick at in ignorance.  Your question about the critical difference between a gov't bureaucracy and a corporate one had already been covered.  Post 94.



rulemylife -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 2:54:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


Right.  Fraud, waste and abuse on a scale previously unimagined.  No competition to act as any sort of counterweight to it.  Said fraud then leads to onerous regulation, increasing costs and diminishing the efficiency and quality of care.



I'm sorry, say that again, because I'm having a hard time hearing the conservative arguments anymore.

The whole purpose of the public option was to create competition to drive down cost.

But we were told "public option bad, drive insurers out of business".

Yet now competition is the reason not to enact health care reform?







willbeurdaddy -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 2:55:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

What the liberals fail to accept is that compassion is not the same as being willing to have your pocket picked.


...so would you accept that an individual has the right to opt out of that portion of the tax they pay that goes to military funding?




No. google "freeriders" if you dont understand the difference.



philosophy -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 3:27:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

What the liberals fail to accept is that compassion is not the same as being willing to have your pocket picked.


...so would you accept that an individual has the right to opt out of that portion of the tax they pay that goes to military funding?




No. google "freeriders" if you dont understand the difference.



...and, just as clearly, you don't understand (or willfully refuse to understand) how universal health care benefits everybody......including those who want private health care.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 3:29:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

What the liberals fail to accept is that compassion is not the same as being willing to have your pocket picked.


...so would you accept that an individual has the right to opt out of that portion of the tax they pay that goes to military funding?




No. google "freeriders" if you dont understand the difference.



...and, just as clearly, you don't understand (or willfully refuse to understand) how universal health care benefits everybody......including those who want private health care.


I understand its benefits and its negatives quite well, thank you. The negatives far outweigh the benefits.



philosophy -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 3:57:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


I understand its benefits and its negatives quite well, thank you. The negatives far outweigh the benefits.



...only in an ideological sense. In medical terms you're quite wrong. Or are you going to suggest that US medical care provides better health outcomes than nationalised care? If the latter, i predict a flurry of actual links to actual data. You know, that nasty proof stuff that keeps getting in the way of your cherished beliefs.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 4:03:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


I understand its benefits and its negatives quite well, thank you. The negatives far outweigh the benefits.



...only in an ideological sense. In medical terms you're quite wrong. Or are you going to suggest that US medical care provides better health outcomes than nationalised care? If the latter, i predict a flurry of actual links to actual data. You know, that nasty proof stuff that keeps getting in the way of your cherished beliefs.



Yes, it does, and by far. And no, Im not giving links to proprietary studies and databases to a random on an internet board. Do your own research, its out there if you spend the time. I work in the area every day, I don't need the remedial education.



Jeffff -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 4:10:14 PM)

Of course you don't supply any documentation. You just make grand pronouncements and expect people to belive the nonesense you spew.
.

No one does. As far as this section goes, you are a non entity.



TheHeretic -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 4:10:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife


I'm sorry, say that again, because I'm having a hard time hearing the conservative arguments anymore.

The whole purpose of the public option was to create competition to drive down cost.

But we were told "public option bad, drive insurers out of business".

Yet now competition is the reason not to enact health care reform?








Back under the bridge with you, little troll.  I'm not playing along with your invented arguments and assigned positions.  There is no public option in this mess, so why do you want to take the conversation someplace meaningless?  Is that the only place you feel comfortable?


And you've never heard the conservative arguments to begin with, so why not stow the bullshit attempt at sarcasm?



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Where is the compassion? (3/20/2010 4:17:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Of course you don't supply any documentation. You just make grand pronouncements and expect people to belive the nonesense you spew.
.

No one does. As far as this section goes, you are a non entity.


This from someone who has never posted anything of substance, documented or otherwise.

You dont seem to understand. The people who have actually bothered to read, research and understand the issues dont have to "believe" me, they know Im right in substance. Its only inellectual vacuums waiting to be filled like you, who are willing to be spoonfed the lies from their ideological leaders, who choose not to learn.



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