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Sexually Transmitted Diseases - 9/12/2004 2:33:55 PM

SweetThighs

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Knowing that he had herpes, my exspouse infected me with the STD without first disclosing this information. I call this "negligent omission".

I often wonder how someone like that can face their image in the mirror every morning.

Needless to say, I feel very strongly about disclosing this information...it would never be my intention to deceive a potential Dom...especially if I hoped to develop a long term relationship with this individual. I mainatin a very strong Code of Ethics...and must maintain my integrity in order to live with myself.

My questions are:

When is the best time to inform someone that you have herpes (or some other Std)?

Has anyone on this site had a successful relationhip with someone who has an STD?

How common do you think STD's are in the BDSM world?

Any and all advice and constructive criticism is greatly appreciated.

V

< Message edited by SweetThighs -- 9/12/2004 3:42:17 PM >

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RE: Sexually Transmitted Diseases - 9/12/2004 3:45:33 PM

asecreter

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Sweet:

This subject got knocked around on IRC a bit last night and it really got me thinking -- I consider myself an intelligent, thoughtful person with reasonable self-control, and I consider myself reasonably well-informed about STDs, anatomy, emergency first aid, etc. -- but I've ALSO recently decided that I would like to find someone I can merely play with, and not necessarily anybody that I would be involved with on an emotional level. And suddenly, I frankly don't feel very well informed at all.

First, I think your ex is a shitcock for not being 100% up front about this. Second, well, I seriously wonder about the overall quality of communication within the relationship between you, especially if you were MARRIED to the guy. I think this is something you'd want to bring up somewhere between the first sign that you're physically attracted to someone and the point where enough discussion has transpired that you can comfortably begin to broach trust issues.

Since this is potentially a deal-breaker, though, I think I'd want to have it out in the open, where the other person has no choice but to deal with it. Certainly there's no need to be any more confrontational about it than any other, but make sure the prospective individual actually knows something about herpes and what being involved with someone who has it means. For myself, this would be a non-issue -- I'd simply learn as much as is known about the disease, do what is required to minimize the risk of contracting it myself, and live with the infintisimal possibilty that might not be enough in itself. Handled intelligently, I can actually see where such a thing would increase someone's respect for someone.

Additionally, such an admission should help to run off the losers faster than a .44 in a bar fight.

On the whole, though, what this really underscores is the importance of good communication (as always). Generally when some one is so dishonest they can keep something like this from someone, it says something about BOTH parties involved.

(in reply to SweetThighs)

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RE: Sexually Transmitted Diseases - 9/12/2004 10:01:11 PM

proudsub

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Anyone who knows they have an STD and doesn't tell his/her partner is a complete asshole IMHO.

quote:

When is the best time to inform someone that you have herpes (or some other Std)?

If the relationship started online i think you should inform them before you meet in person, otherwise before the relationship progresses to sex.

quote:

Has anyone on this site had a successful relationhip with someone who has an STD?

My first real life dom gave me a non-wart variety of HPV. He swore he was disease free. He had no idea he had it as he had no symptoms. Most people with HPV don't know they have it. I was one of the unlucky 10% of women with HPV who had an abnormal pap and that is how i learned i had it. Since i don't want to pass it to hubby we no longer have intercourse. We use toys instead, which i probably enjoy more anyway. He has a bad hip and i have a bad knee so intercourse positions were difficult for us anyway. Condoms do not prevent the transmission of HPV since it is transmitted by skin contact not fluids, that's one reason it is so prevalent. About 70% of the sexually active adult population have it and most don't know it.

quote:

How common do you think STD's are in the BDSM world?

Very common, but like i said before so many don't know they are carriers.

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RE: Sexually Transmitted Diseases - 9/13/2004 6:07:41 AM

topcat

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Midear Sweet-

Welcome to the club. It's not as bad as it seems.

I have had herpes for almost twenty years, and by being reasonably careful, I have never infected a partner.

Acne has screwed up my personal life more than herpes to date.

I disclose as early as it seems clear that we are heading towards a physical interaction. There have been a few times where it was in the heat of the moment when it was one of those passionate, spur of the moment things, but usually on a first date, somewhere between the appitisers and the entree over dinner.

Once a date screamed "YOU HAVE HERPES!?!?!!". In a small resturant. Where I was well known. In a small town. On a busy night. While embarrasssing, it did help get the word out, and I had several people approch me and say 'Hey- me too.'. Some of them I dated.

It seems to me sometimes that everyone has it. I'd say that half or better of my partners had it, and there's acutally a plus side.

When you tell someone, and they have it too, there's this strange moment of relief/bonding that happens, that, while it may not last, gives the rest of the date a sort of happy glow.

It's easier to deal with as a male- I always get a fair warning before an out break, and over the years they have dwindled to maybe two a year, ususally when I am under a fair amount of stress. I do advise people against any sort of suppression or outbreak medication- those that I know that have gone that route seem to have more problems than those that don't. I also believe that 'asymptomatic shedding'- being contagious without any symptoms of an outbreak- is a myth, but there are many that do believe in it.

Welcome to the club- hang in there.

Write me on the other side of the site if you don't want to discuss it here.

Stay warm,
Lawrence

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RE: Sexually Transmitted Diseases - 9/13/2004 9:26:33 AM

NoCalOwner

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Just wanted to respond to one part:
"How common do you think STD's are in the BDSM world?"

70% of American adults show exposure to HPV (most strains are fairly innocuous, but several are not). Somewhere between 17% and 25% of adult Americans have acquired herpes simplex 2 at some point in their lives. Most of these cases are asymptomatic, and the infected party is usually unaware that they have an STD. So, without even worrying about other STDs, one can safely say that at least 3/4 of adult Americans have been exposed to (incurable) STDs which they may be capable of passing along, and are probably unaware that they are doing so.

I suspect that we are a higher risk group than adult Americans taken as a whole. I always work under the assumption that we're more like 95% STD+.

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RE: Sexually Transmitted Diseases - 9/13/2004 11:18:49 AM

SentForu

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I'd like to point out how brave and honorable it is for the three of you to admit that in a public forum. I honestly applaud you. Now, I have a friend who is infected with an STD (genital warts). It was contracted in the very same way. Evidently, her husband had an affair. She is still married to him, and he has apologized on numerous occasions. She found that love overcame that. This could bring up a whole new thread. I have been faced with a Dom who came out and told me he has Herpes. Was it his fault, absolutely not. I think that if there is true love there, it should not get in the way. Of course, it gives you more to think about. You do stand to loose a bit of general good health. In my opinion, I'd just have to be sure before becoming sexually active with him. The use of protection would be a must. However, if it's going to be a long term relationship (possibly marriage), that might not be a choice over time. I don't look down on anyone who has a STD. Most of the time, it's not their fault. Being decieved is very common. Safe sex is also very important, expecially if you're only casually playing. Again, I commend you Sweet, Topcat, and proud. Hold your head up !!!!!!

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RE: Sexually Transmitted Diseases - 9/13/2004 12:04:32 PM

proudsub

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quote:

Again, I commend you Sweet, Topcat, and proud. Hold your head up !!!!!!

Thank you SentFor. I debated whether or not to say anything, but thought it might help someone else to know how easy it is to catch an STD even when someone claims to be clean. In 36 years of marriage that was the only person besides hubby i have had intercourse with so i know he transmitted it, besides the fact that all my paps before that were normal. Thank you for saying it's not my fault, however in my case i feel it is because i went outside my marriage. I am very luck Hubby has been so understanding over all this.

I would like to advise all you sexually active women out there to get regular paps, because HPV can develop into cervicle cancer if not treated, and there are no symptoms to warn you until it's too late.

< Message edited by proudsub -- 9/13/2004 12:05:05 PM >

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proudsub

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RE: Sexually Transmitted Diseases - 9/13/2004 12:26:18 PM

sub4hire

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quote:

When is the best time to inform someone that you have herpes (or some other Std)?

Has anyone on this site had a successful relationhip with someone who has an STD?

How common do you think STD's are in the BDSM world?

If I had an STD, I think I would notify people upfront about it. Why waste both of our time if they are'nt going to be open minded enough? Our lives here are too short to waste on rubbish.

How common are they within the scene. I think they are probably as common as the vanilla world. I really don't think there is a prevalance of STD's within the scene. We do have some people who just won't take responsiblity for their own actions but you have that within a vanilla world as well.

Here in California. Not sure how many remember the herpes epidemic out here a few years back. Within the scene. Woman was collared to a Dom in Orange County. He worked 12 hour days. Frankly she could'nt sit at home alone Bored. So she went out and screwed everyone who wanted to screw her until he did get home. He took her to the doc on 3 seperate occassions because she was scabbing. Herpes tests proved positive on 3 occassions. I know this as a fact because at the time she was still going Dom to Dom while I was negotiating with him after her release. I saw the paperwork.
We even did the "right" thing and went to her new playmate. Told him. he basically laid it on the line there for us. She is mine to use and I will use her until she is used up. Then I will discard her. I can care less how many she infects.
Well when it was all done and over with we had 28 new cases of herpes within the players out here. One guy even died a few years later from AIDS. Obviously that is another problem I knew nothing of. Haven't heard of anyone else having aids. He did play with the world though. Hard to imagine he didn't spread it along.
Anyway last I heard, she was in Arizona someplace still not telling anyone she had herpes.

Now, to me yes it affected the community I am in. However there are children doing the same thing in every walk of life. It isn't just our lifestyle.

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RE: Sexually Transmitted Diseases - 9/13/2004 12:46:19 PM

Sundew02

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Open minded or not I would be very careful of touching someone intimately if they had specific STDs. Herpes is fairly common and treatable. Remember we are a nation of cultural mixes. There are now strainds of STDs that no longer respond to antibiotic tx.
Among the largest group of is Hepititis. Then there is HIV. That I can not say oh well, we will deal with it. Herpes, genital warts, yes we can deal. IF they are containable and treatable, go for it if you want them. But for me, I will never risk those in my world to something that cannot be medically treated or with careful planning contained. This is NOT to say they could not friends or socialize there I have no qualms. Sundew

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RE: Sexually Transmitted Diseases - 9/13/2004 1:16:15 PM

sub4hire

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quote:

Open minded or not I would be very careful of touching someone intimately if they had specific STDs. Herpes is fairly common and treatable. Remember we are a nation of cultural mixes.

That is moreless what I meant Sundew. If I am negiating with you and you have Aids. At least if you tell me I can then decide on my own. Do I want to pursue this relationship?

I do know some who hide it, like in my example. By the way the Dom she was living with at the time. He openly admits he never used a condom while with her. Even though she tested positive so many times. Yet, he is also one to say, men can't get it from women.
Yep, right sure, that is why a good majority of the people she infected were men.
There are those that are in denial as well. I can guarantee if I were someone new to him negotiating today he would not tell me of this.

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RE: Sexually Transmitted Diseases - 9/13/2004 2:51:27 PM

MC2044

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quote:

When is the best time to inform someone that you have herpes (or some other Std)? ASAP. I'd put it in my profile, if I had it. No use wasting your time or theirs, if that will be a show stopper.

Has anyone on this site had a successful relationhip with someone who has an STD? I had a nice play session with a gal who has Herpes, but we played with her stuff and had no intercourse. Other than that, I can't say. I expect there are some doms similarly infected who might like having a relationship with someone they don't have to worry about infecting.

How common do you think STD's are in the BDSM world? As others have said, probably more than we care to admit.

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RE: Sexually Transmitted Diseases - 9/13/2004 3:45:43 PM

theroebabe

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Personally i think as soon as people start to get closer to one another where they are thinking that it might lead to more is when it should be brought up.

And each person has to make a decision for themselves as to weather or not to continue. I know if i found someone who said they had not infected others then and i trustes this person i would find out all i could and make a decision. In the case of herpes i would say since i have done some reading on the subject that i would personally take the risk. Roe

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RE: Sexually Transmitted Diseases - 9/14/2004 7:53:44 PM

WayHome

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That's a really tough question.

I was on the other end of this situation once. Got told as things were rapidly moving towards passionate that we needed to talk seriously. Then I heard the whole story of her herpes.

She laid it all out very articulately and ended with, "I really will uinderstand if this changes your mind and you want to go home now. I won't hold it against you at all." and I really believed her. I'd like to say that as an enlightened person who understands the realities, I took it all in stride. In reality I really did want to run away. I felt a tiny bit guilty for wanting to leave her cold. I also felt a tiny bit of resentment for not having been told sooner. Mostly though, I felt a great deal of respect and compassion for the maturity and strength she showed in addressing this very difficult and embarassing situation the way she did rather than the way your ex did. I was struck by how hard it is to live with such a disease for your whole life (she was 20 at the time and had contracted it at 15). On the other hand, I was struck with the reality that I could be risking that same fate. In the end, I stayed the night. We had a few other encounters too before drifting apart, but I admit that the number of encounters would probably have been much higher if she hadn't had herpes. If I hadn't already had a significant friendship with her developed over the months preceeding that night, I probably just would have said "goodnight."

So I think that it's possible to bring it up too early. If you are meticulous and careful then you should have the ability to live a relatively "normal" sex life and shouldn't have to automatically have yourself removed from consideration by most people before they have even gotten to know enough about you to know that you might be worth it.

On the other hand, it could be easy to wait too long. You risk causing a potential partner to feel trapped or emotionally blackmailed. It's very important that you tell your potential partner long before you are in a situation where turning back means lots of drama.

The girl in my story handled it very well. I did have that first thought of, "Gee, ya coulda told me sooner!" but on relfection she really isn't obligated to wear a giant "H" plastered on her chest. "Too soon" really isn't fair to you and "too late" really isn't fair to him. You have to find the right balance for yourself and I suspect it will unfortunately involve a little trial and error.

The girl from my story had been through that before. She had worked it all out in her own head and had been through enough previous heartache to be able to be honest and mature in the way she presented it to me.

Herpes is not the end of the world and there are certainly much worse things that could (and eventually do) happen to a person, but you have my sympathy and it is a trial and opportunity for you to show greater character than most. I hope that when you are having these uncomfortable conversations in the future, you can be comforted by the fact that just being here on this list asking this question and making the hard choices says a lot about who you are.

Leto

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