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RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 2:31:49 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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Status: offline 		Why do you beleive the forces of religion are exclusive to the right...we have just seen that they have their acolytes amongst the supposed "left".

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RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 2:33:27 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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From: The Great Frozen North
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I fall on the same side as Lady A on this. I think its pathetic that the God squad is seemingly making an end run around Roe v Wade. I rarely  get really patriotic, but DAMN!! I am glad I am a Canadian and live in a modern, civilised country governed by rational debate.


I am a bit confused here. When Dems make these moves it is still the fault of the religious right? Anyways, the Stupak language was basicly a restating and possible tightening of the Hyde Ammendment that already is law and prevented federal funding of abortions.


It could be if the reason behind it is to appease the Religious Right in order to get the rest of the Healthcare bill through, Master Thadius.  With abortion out of the picture, the rest of it might just be a bit more palatable to them. I can't help but wonder if that was the idea all along.

zeph


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RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 2:34:57 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

With as many "deals" that have been made with this how can anyone see it as a good thing?


I do not know if most people know this, but individually purchased insurance rarely covers pregnancy or pre-natal care with out an extra policy for extra money, and now they will not be able to fund abortions either because all insurance companies will be recieving fedral monies.  Just how much more are women going to get screwed in this?

With $$ dancing in their heads, the insurance industry [sic] and big pharma...see this as a good thing.

Oh, and they have all of that 'free-speech' [sic]...in the bank.

Don't you just love the plutocracy...er democracy in action...with all of that 'political' speech being uttered by the capitalist ?

How many women ? As many as necessary to maximize profits. How's this one which to my knowledge is very possible, even likely...?

Buy insurance for pregnancy and all related health issues, pay years of premiums ($8-10,000) then pay the first $5,000 deductible. Then for that remaining $20,000...'you are not covered...you failed to take your pill or your contraception...failed'

Too bad they can't tell you when you buy life insurance...that you are not covered...you died. Now there's a profit center.

I wonder if I got them to adopt that...I'd get a bonus, like wall street ? Oh wait, we would need to first go bankrupt where, were it not for the taxpayers, be out of a job but deserve a bonus for gett'n the govt. to save our ass anyway. Right ?


< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 3/21/2010 2:55:46 PM >

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RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 2:38:19 PM   
ShaharThorne


Posts: 11071
Joined: 2/24/2009
From: Somewhere in TX
Status: offline 		Now you see why I am wanting to immigrate to Canada years ago.  Better health care. 

Now that I am covered my Medicare, at least I can get my meds and the doctors (regular and p-doc) get paid.  When I had pneumonia, it paid for the breathing treatments (had a machine at the house) and the antibiotics.

I am seeing a comeback of back alley abortions.  Lizard was saying that one can always get a hanger to get an abortion.  Believe me, I straighten her arse out about that dangerous practice and how it can either kill the woman or damage her so bad that she will not be able to conceive again.

Back in the 50s some doctors did perform abortions but it was disguised as abnormal bleeding treatments.  At least the woman was treated with respect and in a comfortable hospital bed (I did the same thing but I was losing the baby). 


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RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 2:43:21 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

And yet Thadius , with all of its faults and all of its warts...it is still a step in the right direction(my opinion of course,I do understand from previous posts that you don't agree)hopefully just the first step in an inexorable process that leads to *gasp* a single payer option.

edited to add a missing j ;-)


Mike, I am all for reforming the system, it needs it. I am all for portability (I think a policy should be owned by a person, like a 401k is), I am for coverage of folks with pre-existing conditions, I am for interstate purchase of policies (the competition would do the same for costs as it did for auto insurance), I am for tort reform and protections of good doctors and hospitals. There are many things we can agree upon, when it comes to the reform that is needed. I am just against jumping in blindly to create a new benefit program without fixing any of the causes of the problems in health care. As I have stated before, I have more faith in my fellow man than I do in the politicians and their lackeys in Washington.

This deal is just another example of how bad this legislation is. When you have to promise to fix something after it is passed, before passing it, something is seriously flawed. It would be the same as a car manufacturer selling new cars with engine place holders and donut tires, promising that after you purchase it they will fix it, they just aren't sure when or how.

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RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 2:47:16 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Why do you beleive the forces of religion are exclusive to the right...we have just seen that they have their acolytes amongst the supposed "left".

The original comment in the thread was about the religious right, I just carried it through in the remarks about Stupak being Catholic, in order to emphasize the fact that it was Dems that were selling out the pro-choice folks.

You know it will be spun in the weeks or months to come that the Repubs were responsible for the "anti-abortion" deal.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 2:55:20 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

They are holding their news conference right now.....
And they stand up there and claim to speak,in one voice and with one central message,for "families all across America".Is there anything scarier than those that claim they know what so many of the rest of us actually want.Be they Repubs or Dems that shit is just scary.


its all bullshit, we all know it.

They are going to make a killing on HC if they get it through they throw shit on the wall pray they can get it to stick and because the people feel as if they have no power and are to damn dumb to know or to lazy to get power their shit will usually stick.

look at the patriot act of all abortions to get passed.

that ok no one else in america reads contracts why should they?


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RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 2:56:35 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Why do you beleive the forces of religion are exclusive to the right...we have just seen that they have their acolytes amongst the supposed "left".

The original comment in the thread was about the religious right, I just carried it through in the remarks about Stupak being Catholic, in order to emphasize the fact that it was Dems that were selling out the pro-choice folks.

You know it will be spun in the weeks or months to come that the Repubs were responsible for the "anti-abortion" deal.


I'm not going to blame either party. Your president is Barack Obama. He has the power to push this through and protect his people. Right now, I'm pissed at him.

That said, this wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't for the religious right anti-abortion groups putting pressure to make abortion illegal.

I just wish Obama would stop being a hypocrite and would put on his big boy pants and start being the president many hoped he would be.

- LA

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RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 3:07:22 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		I'm really not surprised by Stupek or any of the Dem's changing their minds.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 3:17:41 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

And yet Thadius , with all of its faults and all of its warts...it is still a step in the right direction(my opinion of course,I do understand from previous posts that you don't agree)hopefully just the first step in an inexorable process that leads to *gasp* a single payer option.

edited to add a missing j ;-)


Mike, I am all for reforming the system, it needs itAgreed. I am all for portability (I think a policy should be owned by a person, like a 401k is)No issue with this point, I am for coverage of folks with pre-existing conditionsI certainly hope everyone agrees on this point, I am for interstate purchase of policies (the competition would do the same for costs as it did for auto insurance)wouldn't we see practices adopted ala the credit card companies...in other words all flocking to the state whith the most favorable laws..."Delaware" for the health insurance industry., I am for tort reform and protections of good doctors and hospitals.As long as it is "reform" and not a stripping of the right to seek redress when those entities screw up ..as inevitably happens There are many things we can agree upon, when it comes to the reform that is needed.Reasonable people and all that ;-) I am just against jumping in blindly to create a new benefit program without fixing any of the causes of the problems in health care. As I have stated before, I have more faith in my fellow man than I do in the politicians and their lackeys in Washington.

This deal is just another example of how bad this legislation is. When you have to promise to fix something after it is passed, before passing it, something is seriously flawed. It would be the same as a car manufacturer selling new cars with engine place holders and donut tires, promising that after you purchase it they will fix it, they just aren't sure when or how.Do you like sausage Thadius,I know you see where I am going here...This is an entrenched industry with a powerful and rich lobbying presence in Washington...fixing this was never going to be clean and easy.No way ,no how...this was the best that could be done...and as I have now stated in more than a few posts hopefully only the first step in what I see as now being a natural progression to the final destination....single payer.


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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 3:19:10 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
I just wish that goverenment would stay the hell out of reproductive choices. 


Um...for the record..."staying the hell out" of something geeeeeenerally includes not funding it.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 3:20:53 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
I do not know if most people know this, but individually purchased insurance rarely covers pregnancy or pre-natal care with out an extra policy for extra money, and now they will not be able to fund abortions either because all insurance companies will be recieving fedral monies.  Just how much more are women going to get screwed in this?


From the wiki article:

" There is an exception if a woman's life is in danger or in cases of rape or incest. Individuals however are free to purchase separate riders that cover elective abortions."

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 3:26:36 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
I just wish that goverenment would stay the hell out of reproductive choices. 


Um...for the record..."staying the hell out" of something geeeeeenerally includes not funding it.


Except that people are going to be required to purchase a health insurance plan and the Stupak amendment is not going to allow plans covering abortion, which is stepping into reproductive choice.  It is not allowing an individual to choose between plan A that does cover it and plan B that does not. 

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 3:27:41 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Aylee I think you have that wrong.....at least I sure in hell hope so.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 3:28:59 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
I do not know if most people know this, but individually purchased insurance rarely covers pregnancy or pre-natal care with out an extra policy for extra money, and now they will not be able to fund abortions either because all insurance companies will be recieving fedral monies.  Just how much more are women going to get screwed in this?


From the wiki article:

" There is an exception if a woman's life is in danger or in cases of rape or incest. Individuals however are free to purchase separate riders that cover elective abortions."


So a woman needs to purchase a seperate rider for pregnancy and a seperate rider for abortion.  And this does not seem wrong to you? 

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 3:29:34 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Except that people are going to be required to purchase a health insurance plan and the Stupak amendment is not going to allow plans covering abortion, which is stepping into reproductive choice.  It is not allowing an individual to choose between plan A that does cover it and plan B that does not. 
quote:

" There is an exception if a woman's life is in danger or in cases of rape or incest. Individuals however are free to purchase separate riders that cover elective abortions."


"There is an exception if a woman's life is in danger or in cases of rape or incest. Individuals however are free to purchase separate riders that cover elective abortions."

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 3:31:24 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Aylee I think you have that wrong.....at least I sure in hell hope so.


I hope that I am wrong as well.  I do not think that I am though.  Unfortunatly the treatment of women through insurance practices, medical practices, and the pharmacutical industry is a freakin' travesty. 

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 3:32:42 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
Individuals however are free to purchase separate riders that cover elective abortions."



And how much is that going to cost?

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 3/21/2010 3:33:15 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 3:33:36 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
So a woman needs to purchase a seperate rider for pregnancy and a seperate rider for abortion.  And this does not seem wrong to you? 


Not really, it covers medically necessary abortions, and those who want to have insurance for elective abortions have the ability to do so.

Where do you get the idea that it won't cover pregnancy?

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Stupak reaches deal with White House - 3/21/2010 3:35:02 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
Individuals however are free to purchase separate riders that cover elective abortions."



And how much is that going to cost?

- LA


Probably a lot more over time than the couple hundred dollars it costs for an abortion LOL

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 40
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