RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry

RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (Full Version)

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kineticsub -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/25/2010 6:39:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity They don't have a right to stop you anywhere in the US unless they have a reasonable cause to believe that a crime has been or is about to be committed. And in order to ask for ID they first have to stop you, so no technically they do not. Hmm, I was wrong about the ID thing but you do have to identify yourself (give your name) and you can do that while walking [;)] Here again arent you an aussie and crown chattel? You most likely do but WE do not. In some states you do, others you do not. Always check your local laws before doing anything, as they vary significantly state to state.

Elisabella -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/25/2010 6:41:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Here again arent you an aussie and crown chattel? You most likely do but WE do not. Not yet :P I was born in the US, spent the first 24 years of my life in Chicago, moved here in '07 to be with my now-husband.

Real0ne -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/25/2010 6:43:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen So RO, are you saying that as long as you dont give your ID then youre home free whatever offence you committed? So for instance, I could steal a car, rob a bank, shoot a security guard and run down a passerby in my escape - but as long as my identity is not revealed I'm going to escape prosecution? E come on! Here is what I said to popey: Tickets are liens, that is why it is called a charge. when you give them your name you give them jurisdiction in their foreign corporation municipal courts to take some money from you! They do not have jurisdiction unless there has been either a reported injury or equity injury. you are NOT required to give them your name for any other reason. The last cop that forced me to give him my name no longer works there! They seen the writing on the wall. so when you get pulled over for speeding or like me for expired plates who is the injured party? no one. common law for you would mean the same thing in your back yard. they see you with a weapon who is the injured party? no one under common law there has to be injury

Real0ne -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/25/2010 6:45:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Here again arent you an aussie and crown chattel? You most likely do but WE do not. Not yet :P I was born in the US, spent the first 24 years of my life in Chicago, moved here in '07 to be with my now-husband. ok well they did not teach this stuff until after the patriot act, at least not like it is being taught now days. People are pissed that we have been and continue to be lied too. On every front no less.

LadyEllen -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/25/2010 6:46:21 PM)
Common law is one thing, statute law is another - are you again maintaining that statute law has no lawful power? E

Real0ne -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/25/2010 6:48:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kineticsub In some states you do, others you do not. Always check your local laws before doing anything, as they vary significantly state to state. no thats not what I am saying. you have a right to your personal effects and the right to privacy and your name is your personal effects, it is your property and has a great monetary value to the corporation even as a vagrant your signature will bring money in to the corp. Its the federal constituion and that trumps the states

Real0ne -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/25/2010 6:56:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Common law is one thing, statute law is another - are you again maintaining that statute law has no lawful power? E it does if you agree to be judged in that form and forum. I do not.

thornhappy -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/25/2010 7:12:03 PM)
Harsh, Lady E. How else to protect the garden against the depredations of squirrels? quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Offensive weapons are banned here TH; offensive weapons includes anything made or adapted for use as a weapon and anything else used or intended to be used as a weapon - this includes common contents of ladies' handbags such as nail files, hairsprays et al in theory at least. Basically, if you use anything to defend yourself youre committing an offence in possessing an offensive weapon - good, innit? E

Sanity -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/25/2010 7:16:31 PM)
It doesn't matter if you're walking or riding, when they demand your ID card of course you have to stop to produce it, and wait for them as they run it. Would you just let them keep it? Its a kind of power over you, once you allow them to have it. So they are stopping you or "pulling you over" as we say here, when they ask for ID. But they have to have "probable cause" according to the Supreme Court to do that. They may try to badger a person, bluff bluster threaten and cajole, but if the pedestrian stands firm like in the video they must relent according to our law. A long time ago when I was still drinking I once was enjoying a cold beer in my car in a city park here and a cop pulled his car up behind my car, and I hid my can of beer, but when he came up to me he saw it and ticketed me. I went to a lawyer who told me I should have driven away when he parked behind me, and then he couldn't have done anything due to the probable cause rule. I paid my fine, and learned my lesson. About a month later I parked in that same spot and cracked open another ice cold can of my favorite brew and proceeded to enjoy it. Same cop pulled in behind me and began to get out of his car, but I started my car up and drove away and finished my beer as I drove. There was another time in Washington State, I was reading a map as I was pulled over alongside a highway with my then girlfriend and a Washington State police car pulled up behind me. I said, screw this, I don't need the hassle, and I began to drive away. He lit up his lights for a brief moment but then shut them off again, followed me for a ways, then found something else to do. If you just sit there they can come inspect you and harass you, but (here) if you drive away they are powerless to stop you without "reasonable cause" to believe that a crime has been or is about to be committed. quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella Hmm, I was wrong about the ID thing but you do have to identify yourself (give your name) and you can do that while walking [;)]

thornhappy -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/25/2010 7:16:33 PM)
Didn't we flog that to death back in February? quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Common law is one thing, statute law is another - are you again maintaining that statute law has no lawful power? E it does if you agree to be judged in that form and forum. I do not.

LadyEllen -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/25/2010 7:48:10 PM)
well, this is something of a problem TH. Over here we're overrun with American grey squirrels that have forced the native reds out of most places. Consequently the greys are classed as vermin and may be shot on sight. However, having a weapon in a public place is an offence. Having an air gun less than (I think) 100 yards from a road or public way is an offence. Having a gun (or imitation gun) and others feeling threatened by this makes you an offender. So in effect the greys are safe in 90% of the country. E

Real0ne -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/25/2010 8:51:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen well, this is something of a problem TH. Over here we're overrun with American grey squirrels that have forced the native reds out of most places. Consequently the greys are classed as vermin and may be shot on sight. However, having a weapon in a public place is an offence. Having an air gun less than (I think) 100 yards from a road or public way is an offence. Having a gun (or imitation gun) and others feeling threatened by this makes you an offender. So in effect the greys are safe in 90% of the country. E ahhh..... long live the queen! :)

Real0ne -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/25/2010 8:57:36 PM)
next tim efill a beer can with soda and have a witness beside you and pay attention to that kid.just for fun ask the cop if he has a contract with you that he can search your car. Tell him that if he wants to search or look into your car he is agrees to enter into a contract with you and it will cost him 1000 bucks to look into your car, 200 bucks for every object he touches in your car, 60 bucks a minute for your time and then depose your witness in fornt of a notary by affidavit stating you had soda better with 2 witnesses and send him the bill for damages and default him like they will do to you with the ticket so while their ticket is perfecting so is your bill :) Oh and as always nothing I say here is to be construed as legal advice and is for funzies and educational purposes only. life is beyond grand when you know how to play the game! quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity It doesn't matter if you're walking or riding, when they demand your ID card of course you have to stop to produce it, and wait for them as they run it. Would you just let them keep it? Its a kind of power over you, once you allow them to have it. So they are stopping you or "pulling you over" as we say here, when they ask for ID. But they have to have "probable cause" according to the Supreme Court to do that. They may try to badger a person, bluff bluster threaten and cajole, but if the pedestrian stands firm like in the video they must relent according to our law. A long time ago when I was still drinking I once was enjoying a cold beer in my car in a city park here and a cop pulled his car up behind my car, and I hid my can of beer, but when he came up to me he saw it and ticketed me. I went to a lawyer who told me I should have driven away when he parked behind me, and then he couldn't have done anything due to the probable cause rule. I paid my fine, and learned my lesson. About a month later I parked in that same spot and cracked open another ice cold can of my favorite brew and proceeded to enjoy it. Same cop pulled in behind me and began to get out of his car, but I started my car up and drove away and finished my beer as I drove. There was another time in Washington State, I was reading a map as I was pulled over alongside a highway with my then girlfriend and a Washington State police car pulled up behind me. I said, screw this, I don't need the hassle, and I began to drive away. He lit up his lights for a brief moment but then shut them off again, followed me for a ways, then found something else to do. If you just sit there they can come inspect you and harass you, but (here) if you drive away they are powerless to stop you without "reasonable cause" to believe that a crime has been or is about to be committed. quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella Hmm, I was wrong about the ID thing but you do have to identify yourself (give your name) and you can do that while walking [;)]

thornhappy -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/25/2010 9:17:20 PM)
Have you ever tried this?

Vendaval -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/26/2010 1:02:44 AM)
Tazers or electronic fences, perhaps? quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy Harsh, Lady E. How else to protect the garden against the depredations of squirrels? quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Offensive weapons are banned here TH; offensive weapons includes anything made or adapted for use as a weapon and anything else used or intended to be used as a weapon - this includes common contents of ladies' handbags such as nail files, hairsprays et al in theory at least. Basically, if you use anything to defend yourself youre committing an offence in possessing an offensive weapon - good, innit? E

LadyEllen -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/26/2010 8:09:32 AM)
Tazers are illegal - anything made or adapted for use as a weapon, remember? And anything that actually projects anything - my goodness! I have an air rifle - only a diddy .177. If I went out in my backyard to plink some cans with it and someone saw me, there'd a police firearms team down here with machine guns in a minute, dogs and a helicopter. Honestly, some guy a few years back got shot to death for walking through town with a chair leg in a bag that some idiiot reported to be a shotgun. There is absolute fear and paranoia (and ignorance) here about guns. An electric fence? Now you'd probably want to look up the Regulations on where and how they may be used - and of course you must remember your duty of care to any passing burglar who may be injured if he touches your electric fence and then may sue you. E

kineticsub -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/26/2010 11:38:44 AM)
While I agree with you in principle, we both know our Constitution doesn't mean shit these days. It's very sad, but it has been trampled and stomped on since the days of Lincoln. The bottom line is the police can arrest you for anything they want to, or nothing at all. Normal citizens(and states, to a small degree) have been stripped of their rights. Ninth and Tenth Amendment? What are those?

slavekal -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/26/2010 12:18:28 PM)
People have a right to defend themselves. Illinois, and other fascist states/nations attempt to make law abiding citizens victims of criminals.

popeye1250 -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/26/2010 12:31:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Tazers are illegal - anything made or adapted for use as a weapon, remember? And anything that actually projects anything - my goodness! I have an air rifle - only a diddy .177. If I went out in my backyard to plink some cans with it and someone saw me, there'd a police firearms team down here with machine guns in a minute, dogs and a helicopter. Honestly, some guy a few years back got shot to death for walking through town with a chair leg in a bag that some idiiot reported to be a shotgun. There is absolute fear and paranoia (and ignorance) here about guns. An electric fence? Now you'd probably want to look up the Regulations on where and how they may be used - and of course you must remember your duty of care to any passing burglar who may be injured if he touches your electric fence and then may sue you. E LE, if you can no longer defend yourself in England it's really not a safe country anymore.

LadyEllen -> RE: Police Confront Man on Traffic Stop for Open Carry (3/26/2010 3:45:39 PM)
Its actually not that violent Popeye - at least as serious violence goes its rare enough to make the news. Our problem is a superabundance of low level violence and crime that wouldnt be of note, being just about over nuisance value, except for its ubiquitous presence. And you can defend yourself - its then just a matter of whether the system thinks you used too much force to do so. Might not be allowed to carry guns and knives, but a biro and many other everyday items can be very effective up close. E

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