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Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/25/2010 9:48:08 AM

Vendaval

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The topic of parental rights and custody agreements came up in another thread. Tennessee is considering splitting custody 50/50 when divorce proceedings are nasty.

Tennessee moves to split custody evenly in messy divorces

By Janell Ross, The (Nashville) Tennessean

"A Tennessee bill that would evenly split child custody in contentious divorce cases is drawing national attention and dividing groups along gender lines.

On one side is an alliance of women's groups, some judges and the Tennessee Bar Association, who say the change would make divorces tougher to settle and give abusive ex-husbands leverage they shouldn't have. Spending half of the time with each parent would also impose impractical schedules on kids, they say.

On the other side are fathers' rights groups who say kids get deprived of full relationships with both parents. Courts have too long ignored laws calling for custody decisions to be made in children's best interests, they say, and judges are overly influenced by notions about the mother-child bond."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-22-split-custody_N.htm

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RE: Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/25/2010 10:28:21 AM

housesub4you

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Most states have a have the 50/50 custody unless abuse can be proved. And it's not like people have not abused that, a family member is a divorce attorney and for a long time just about every couple filing would say abuse to use custody as a leverage tool to get what they wanted. Now in Illinois most know that it is 50/50 and do not waste time trying to prove lies

So when true abuse cases came up, there was a built in issue if they are lying or not

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RE: Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/25/2010 1:24:17 PM

Vendaval

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That sounds like a practical approach. I have seen numerous instances where one side or both claimed abuse of some sort for leverage in custody battles.

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RE: Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/25/2010 1:30:08 PM

slvemike4u

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Well I got divorced 10 years ago.....and kept custody of my than 10/11(the divorce took a good long while...lol) son.That judge when custody was discussed stated she was loath to strip a parent,in this case a mother of custody,so she left it at split custody.Now what you need to remember is that there is a difference between day to day custody...which was awarded to me...and simply striping a parent of "custody" in total.What I was granted was,in New York called Custodial custody...but again,as per that judges ruling absent abuse issues stripping one parent of custody has ramifications and meanings down the line which can negatively affect the child.
As far as I was concerned this was the way to do it,

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RE: Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/25/2010 1:33:40 PM

Vendaval

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In most instances I have seen, both parents have joint legal and the mother primary physical. Sometimes that ruling was positive and other times not, as one or the other parent was not responsible or stable. What is especially disturbing are the parents who will fight for full rights in custody simply to spite the other parent and the youngsters are only pawns in their game.

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RE: Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/25/2010 1:36:51 PM

slvemike4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

In most instances I have seen, both parents have joint legal and the mother primary physical. Sometimes that ruling was positive and other times not, as one or the other parent was not responsible or stable. What is especially disturbing are the parents who will fight for full rights in custody simply to spite the other parent and the youngsters are only pawns in their game.

Gods truth,she drew out the divorce ,fought tooth and nail....over money .Not one argument,not one tactic having to do with our son......she should have told me sooner that I could keep him...we both could have saved three years or so of misery!

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 3/25/2010 1:37:19 PM >

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RE: Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/25/2010 1:38:26 PM

Vendaval

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mike,

I am sorry that was how your divorce and custody happened. How are you and your unmentionable now?

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RE: Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/25/2010 1:42:32 PM

slvemike4u

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The unmentionable...is now mentionable....Graduates fron NYU in may....I get to sit in Yankee stadium and watch my son grad on the Deans List ...as a double major,and he did it in 4 years.That young man is what keeps the smile on my face

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RE: Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/25/2010 3:32:29 PM

LadyPact

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Ven, thanks for providing the article. I can see some potential problems with it, but if most people can <gasp> act like adults during a divorce and honestly understand that what happens between adults should be made as easy as possible for their children, we may see some folks work this out.

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RE: Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/25/2010 11:27:49 PM

Vendaval

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Hi guys,

I just got home from an evening shift. Mike, congratulations on your son's graduation! That is quite an accomplishment.

Lady Pact, I whole heartedly agree that more adults need to act mature during divorce and custody agreements. The youngsters will never forget the lessons taught during such events.

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"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
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RE: Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/26/2010 9:09:58 AM

CalifChick

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This blurb from the article shows just how out of touch with the real world some people can be:

The way Eric Kyle sees it, he hasn't been able to properly father his children since his 2005 divorce. Kyle, who lives in Davidson County, Tenn., wanted his son and daughter to split their time equally between him and his ex-wife, who lives in Williamson County, Tenn.

He lives in a different county than his ex wife. Okay, so maybe the counties in Tennessee are small and the towns are close together. Maybe he can get the kids to school on time, every day, in another county. My ex wouldn't even be able to get the kids to school on time and he is staying in a house about 8 miles away from mine (and I'm about a mile from the school). One kid has to be at school at 6:35 am and the other has to be at school at 7:20 am. I cannot even begin to imagine that working out from another county.

And this:

Courts have too long ignored laws calling for custody decisions to be made in children's best interests, they say, and judges are overly influenced by notions about the mother-child bond."

Perhaps instead of making new laws, how about getting rid of judges that aren't doing their jobs? And it's hard to take an argument seriously when they use inflammatory words like "notion".

How many non-custodial parents (of either gender) take their full time they are allotted in the court order? How many are taking the full "every Wednesday overnight" and "every other weekend from after school Friday until approximately bedtime on Sunday" that is either pretty standard or a starting point for deciding a schedule? I know alot of divorced people and I know very, very few who take the full time allotted. I also know very few non-custodial parents who see it as a responsibility to take and care for their children on their time, but instead see it as an option. Meaning if something else comes up, or it's not convenient, they reschedule.

Custodial parents don't get to re-schedule parenting.

What I wouldn't give to trade in my ex for one who actually did more than pay lip-service to parenting. One who called her frequently instead of once in 6 weeks. One who actually spent time with her, instead of just saying that he WANTED to spend time with her. One who saw her more than once in 8 weeks. One who didn't forget her birthday last week.

Yeah, I'm bitter.

Cali

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RE: Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/26/2010 9:20:24 AM

LaTigresse

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There are two people, I am very close to, that have this type of arrangement.

My graphics guy and his ex have made it work wonnnnnderfully! Their divorce, and the way they have handled themselves, is truly to be commended. (if you knew me, him, his ex, and my opinion of them.....you would know those are words of high praise indeed)

My youngest sister was never married but her son's father turned into insta prick after they split up. There were a couple of years that my sister went through hell, then a come to Jesus trip to court whipped her son's father into perfect shape. She and he, get along magnificently now, with my adorable nephew reaping the rewards.

My confusion is what has already been mentioned, what about when he begins attending regular school, rather than a daycare/preschool? Mom and dad live 90+ miles apart. It is obvious he cannot spend every other week with each and attend the same school. I've never asked my sister because I know she would feel I was somehow criticizing or questioning her parenting.....I am just waiting to see how they work it out.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 3/26/2010 9:21:46 AM >

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RE: Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/26/2010 10:16:26 AM

Lucienne

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quote:

Rep. Mike Bell, a Republican and the bill's key sponsor, said he introduced the bills after constituents' complaints and hopes it might encourage more parents to reconsider divorce.

That's problematic. And then this:

quote:

Monica Gimbles said she doesn't think the bill is realistic. She is in the process of finding an attorney to work out custody arrangements for her 5-year-old daughter with her onetime fiancé. "This is the kind of idea that people come up with when they haven't ever actually taken care of a child, a small child that needs a lot of care and takes a lot of time," Gimbles said. "It just makes the child's life topsy-turvy."

Monica Gimbles thinks it's not a realistic bill because she accepted the premise that the lawmaker cares about the best interests of the child. It's a pretty effective bill if you look at it in terms of giving people who care about their kids a disincentive to divorce. It's pretty extreme to not allow the parents to work out custody issues agreeably on their own. The "best" divorces for kids are the one's where the parents can do this. Face time with the kids isn't as important as everyone still feeling on the same team in terms of loving and supporting the kids.

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RE: Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/26/2010 10:25:41 AM

CalifChick

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

It's a pretty effective bill if you look at it in terms of giving people who care about their kids a disincentive to divorce.

What does THAT mean? I care about my children. I cannot imagine an incentive to divorce... and why in the hell would anyone want/need/welcome a DISincentive to divorce? Staying together and being miserable privately and in front of the children, not having money for milk for the kids because he was spending it all on god knows what, worrying about being able to pay daycare so I could go to work, worrying about gas money to GET to daycare and work and home again... yeah, c'mon, give people like me a DISINCENTIVE to divorce. I was doing my kids a disservice by accepting poor treatment. God help me if they were to grow up thinking it's okay to be treated that way.

Cali

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RE: Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/26/2010 10:31:23 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Ven, thanks for providing the article. I can see some potential problems with it, but if most people can <gasp> act like adults during a divorce and honestly understand that what happens between adults should be made as easy as possible for their children, we may see some folks work this out.

Not very often, and divorce laws tend to be rooted in archaic notions of the helpless female which prejudices the husband.

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RE: Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/26/2010 10:38:18 AM

Lucienne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

It's a pretty effective bill if you look at it in terms of giving people who care about their kids a disincentive to divorce.

What does THAT mean? I care about my children. I cannot imagine an incentive to divorce... and why in the hell would anyone want/need/welcome a DISincentive to divorce? Staying together and being miserable privately and in front of the children, not having money for milk for the kids because he was spending it all on god knows what, worrying about being able to pay daycare so I could go to work, worrying about gas money to GET to daycare and work and home again... yeah, c'mon, give people like me a DISINCENTIVE to divorce. I was doing my kids a disservice by accepting poor treatment. God help me if they were to grow up thinking it's okay to be treated that way.

Cali

It means Rep. Mike Bell is totally ok with your children growing up thinking it's ok for the father figure to treat people that way. Because he's a father figure. And he likes a system that let's him do what he wants. And what he wants is for the lil lady to put up with all the bullshit because the law will punish her children if she tries to walk away. There is a significant number of people in this country whose minds work that way. If you stop unquestionably accepting their stated goal (best interests of kids) and start studying their intended outcomes (less divorce regardless of impact on kids) it's kind of scary just how fucked up these people are.

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RE: Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/26/2010 3:50:49 PM

Vendaval

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne
It's pretty extreme to not allow the parents to work out custody issues agreeably on their own.

Lucienne, I don't understand what you mean here? Parents can have
child custody or parenting agreements without going before a judge, either by mediation or collaborative law.

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RE: Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/26/2010 3:54:43 PM

Vendaval

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Cali, I can totally understand your frustration and anger at your ex. I hope you and your daughter have good family support.

LaT, your friends sound like good people that know how to take care of their responsibilities. I am glad the judge whipped your sister's ex into shape.

rule, I have noticed the same sort of attitude with certain social workers and judges.

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RE: Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/26/2010 4:52:20 PM

Elisabella

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

He lives in a different county than his ex wife. Okay, so maybe the counties in Tennessee are small and the towns are close together. Maybe he can get the kids to school on time, every day, in another county. My ex wouldn't even be able to get the kids to school on time and he is staying in a house about 8 miles away from mine (and I'm about a mile from the school). One kid has to be at school at 6:35 am and the other has to be at school at 7:20 am. I cannot even begin to imagine that working out from another county.

50/50 time doesn't have to be split by day or week, it could also be split by year.

quote:

Perhaps instead of making new laws, how about getting rid of judges that aren't doing their jobs? And it's hard to take an argument seriously when they use inflammatory words like "notion".

How is the word "notion" inflammatory? They weren't saying that mothers don't bond with their children they were saying that a lot of people have the idea that a mother, simply by being a mother, has a stronger bond with her child than a father could ever possibly have.

quote:

How many non-custodial parents (of either gender) take their full time they are allotted in the court order? How many are taking the full "every Wednesday overnight" and "every other weekend from after school Friday until approximately bedtime on Sunday" that is either pretty standard or a starting point for deciding a schedule? I know alot of divorced people and I know very, very few who take the full time allotted. I also know very few non-custodial parents who see it as a responsibility to take and care for their children on their time, but instead see it as an option. Meaning if something else comes up, or it's not convenient, they reschedule.

My dad did. Every single weekend, without fail, unless he was sick and didn't want us to catch what he had.

quote:

Custodial parents don't get to re-schedule parenting.

Sure they do, it's called "a babysitter."

quote:

What I wouldn't give to trade in my ex for one who actually did more than pay lip-service to parenting. One who called her frequently instead of once in 6 weeks. One who actually spent time with her, instead of just saying that he WANTED to spend time with her. One who saw her more than once in 8 weeks. One who didn't forget her birthday last week.

Yeah, I'm bitter.

And it's tainting your point of view. Saying that your child's father wasn't a good parent isn't enough to say that no fathers are good parents and therefore all fathers should be relegated to weekend visits.

(in reply to CalifChick)

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RE: Tenn. considering 50/50 custody rights - 3/26/2010 7:27:08 PM

CalifChick

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I'm pretty sure I didn't say that no fathers are good parents. I'm also pretty sure I didn't say that fathers should have only weekends. I'm pretty sure I said "non-custodial parents" for most of what I said.

Do you have children? Babysitting isn't parenting.

I am astounded that anybody would consider custody by year. Change the kids' school every single year? Really? Okay junior, for your freshman and junior year you're going to high school "A", but for your sophomore and senior year you're going to high school "B". Yes, astounding. I'm sure someone, somewhere, thinks that would be a good idea for their children.

notion:
- a very general understanding; a vague or imperfect conception or idea of something: a notion of how something should be done. - an opinion, view, or belief, generally considered negative: That's his notion, not mine. - conception or idea showing disdain: his notion of democracy.
They said "notions about the mother-child bond". They didn't say what you did. If they didn't mean it to be inflammatory, they would have chosen their words more carefully, and/or said something else. Cali

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