RE: Outcry over the Popes visit.

RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (Full Version)

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DomMeinCT -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 5:30:57 PM)
I understand from my friends in the UK that there is also quite a bit of resistance to the visit because it's going to cost taxpayers 15 million pounds ($22.4 million).

pahunkboy -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 5:31:08 PM)
I guess for me- history starts around 1900. Cars, electric, the fed reserve, the IRS, ww1-ww2, the 60s, the 70s- the 80s- clinton- bush- 9-11- mid east gunk. maybe the civil war- prior to that- I guess I just - don't think on it.

Aneirin -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 5:33:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Oh no RO! If you asked any representative sample of Brits you'd find the vast majority to be at clear variance with our national diplomatic and foreign policies. E That is so, in some cases it even seems like a case of them and us in our own country, they continue to do what they have always done under the unbrella of so called ' national interests ', using their power and influence to in a word, 'use' the country and it's people to basically line their own pockets. They may irritate a situation in other countries to the point where conflict is necessary, but they are never the ones on the battlefield, that is for the plebs to do, they can as they have always done, fight and die for their causes. I speak of the same powers that have created our history, history where the plebian received the pain so others could luxuriate. If anybody reads our history and truly understands it, they will see much of the dislike English seem to have in the world, comes from past times where our then lords and masters did the same as they are doing now, nothing has changed, the pleb gets shot and bombed in their home towns and the irritators are nowhere to be seen. In the UK, perrhaps we are different, we tend not to trust government and rulers, I suppose our history has made us that aware.

Politesub53 -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 5:40:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomMeinCT I understand from my friends in the UK that there is also quite a bit of resistance to the visit because it's going to cost taxpayers 15 million pounds ($22.4 million). They could be talking about a petition by the national secular society. I havent heard much of a fuss on cost grounds in the mainstream media. Besides, the state the economy is in another £15 million will hardly be noticed, way more than that is going to be lost when we stage the 2012 Olympics.

Aneirin -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 5:46:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Ken, I dont think it is right that you can bar the religious leader of many of our citizens from entering the UK. Even if I agree with several points on your list. I think maybe we can, as we seem able to bar certain religious leaders from the Muslim faith because of their views, if they are barred, then so can the pope be barred, else it will look like a case of discrimination toward the Moslem UK citizens, and we certainly don't want that, if we have a rule to bar entry to certain people because of their views, it has to aply all round, to all. The pope, what he advocates, not only is it abhorrent to certain people, but I believe also it is against UK policy on how people in this country may live and what they can expect out of their lives.

Elisabella -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 5:48:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin I think maybe we can, as we seem able to bar certain religious leaders from the Muslim faith because of their views, if they are barred, then so can the pope be barred, else it will look like a case of discrimination toward the Moslem UK citizens, and we certainly don't want that, if we have a rule to bar entry to certain people because of their views, it has to aply all round, to all. The pope, what he advocates, not only is it abhorrent to certain people, but I believe also it is against UK policy on how people in this country may live and what they can expect out of their lives. Please correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not British) but isn't the monarch also the head of the Church in England? Do you guys have any 'freedom to practice your religion' laws or not? Because if not, wouldn't it be up to the state's discretion? One could be okay, but the other isn't?

kittinSol -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 5:52:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 The Orange Order in Northern Ireland are against the Popes visit to England, Wales and Scotland, on the grounds of religious belief. The Orange Order have always been a bunch of fucking scumbags. Never could stomach them, bleurgh.

LadyEllen -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 5:54:06 PM)
Unless his presence here or what he says or does here may reasonably be suspected to cause or encourage "problems" then there is no reason to bar him, and he enjoys the same freedoms of conscience and expression as anyone else. The popularity of his views is irrelevant. Even so, this is a moment of great constitutional significance - the UK is recognising the Vatican and vice versa and welcoming a state visit from the Vatican as the state representing the great enemy of the last few hundred years, the Roman Catholic church. E

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 5:55:12 PM)
Do Tom Cruise fans have to members of scientology.

Politesub53 -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 5:56:13 PM)
There is Freedom of religion here, despite the Queen being head of the Church of England. Those that have been bared have done so because of preaching hatred.

Politesub53 -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 5:58:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Unless his presence here or what he says or does here may reasonably be suspected to cause or encourage "problems" then there is no reason to bar him, and he enjoys the same freedoms of conscience and expression as anyone else. The popularity of his views is irrelevant. Even so, this is a moment of great constitutional significance - the UK is recognising the Vatican and vice versa and welcoming a state visit from the Vatican as the state representing the great enemy of the last few hundred years, the Roman Catholic church. E Do keep up dear, we had a Papal visit back in `82

Real0ne -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 5:59:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Oh no RO! If you asked any representative sample of Brits you'd find the vast majority to be at clear variance with our national diplomatic and foreign policies. E and you are all chattel and have no guns to do anything about it if you wanted too.

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 5:59:51 PM)
Although the monarch doesn't have freedom of religion, I heard something about a movement in Westminster to change this but it has to be agreed with the whole commonwealth. Namibia never answers the phone when we ring them about this, so it's taking some time.

Real0ne -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 6:00:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy that is so odd to have friction between Catholics and Protestants. Why ? I grew up with it, many my age and older grew up hearing about bombings and shootings by catholics and protestants in Ireland, in fact, as far back as I can remember, terrorism was always an issue in Britain, we were under threat from terrorists long before the present fanatical islamic threat, which might go some way to explain why Britons are not so wound up about the situation as it affects us now. Main land England has suffered at the hands of the IRA, we have had shootings and indiscriminate bombings, citizens have been murdered for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time and whilst all that was going on, shoppers being blown to bits on a saturday morning, horse parades bombed, we used to think of the terrorists being funded by our allies. yeh the americans about 1776 were a real pain in the ass! :)

LadyEllen -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 6:02:29 PM)
1982 was a pastoral visit PS53 - this is a state visit. Big difference. E

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 6:02:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne and you are all chattel and have no guns to do anything about it if you wanted too. Yeah what armed rebellion or uprising have you been a part of recently, uncle sams bitch?

Real0ne -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 6:03:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 so is the continued slaughter of the muslims over money and oil but you support that. Show me a post where I have said that you arsehole, or is this another attempt at baiting. Anyone on the right who has argued with me on the issue will know you are spouting crap as per usual. I guess you are still unhappy because I nailed you as a racist. well you are wrong about most of what I read of yours and I see you maintain that track record well.

Real0ne -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 6:04:14 PM)
quote: n another Protestant Queen who would murder all Catholics and you'll s quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy ...the 2 groups seem to get along in the US. the 2 groups seem more alike then different. the idea of a clash is pretty rare- to ....well- someone in the US. it is hard to comprehend. racial tension, is more of an issue- then this. (in the US) I guess I should just be happy we dont have that conflict. Look up a bit of the history of how Protestantism started in England, and the alternating between a Protestant King who would murder all Catholics, a Catholic Queen that would murder all Protestants, and then another Protestant Queen who would murder all Catholics and you'll see that it's just as much a sore spot for them as slavery is for the US. and presidents who would murder a million muslims

LadyEllen -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 6:05:32 PM)
Who needs guns RO? Or for that matter tanks et al? The Taliban have shown us the way, should we ever need it. In the meantime we'll stick with complaining and pressure groups and democracy and law (especially EU law). We did the civil war and revolution thing and it didnt turn out to be as good as we thought it might be. E

Politesub53 -> RE: Outcry over the Popes visit. (3/25/2010 6:05:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne well you are wrong about most of what I read of yours and I see you maintain that track record well. Apology accepted.

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