RE: Name your penalty! (Full Version)

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Thadius -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 4:00:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Community service. There are plenty of repairs and cleaning jobs to be done in any city, town, county, rural area, etc.

Awesome idea V.

Forced labor seems appropriate with the way things are going. [;)]




pahunkboy -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 4:02:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Community service. There are plenty of repairs and cleaning jobs to be done in any city, town, county, rural area, etc.

Awesome idea V.

Forced labor seems appropriate with the way things are going. [;)]


I thought we were a free country.





Vendaval -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 4:02:37 PM)

How about those nifty black and white striped uniforms? Those are in style for spring again.




Thadius -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 4:06:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Community service. There are plenty of repairs and cleaning jobs to be done in any city, town, county, rural area, etc.

Awesome idea V.

Forced labor seems appropriate with the way things are going. [;)]


I thought we were a free country.



Nah we are becoming more like prisoners on furlough, don't eat this, don't drink that, don't smoke this, and buy health care insurance or else.

It ain't got that bad, yet. I am surprised nobody picked up on the VP's remarks at the signing about this being the last girder in the foundation of socializing our country, or something to that effect. I could be mistaken.




slvemike4u -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 4:06:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Community service. There are plenty of repairs and cleaning jobs to be done in any city, town, county, rural area, etc.

Awesome idea V.

Forced labor seems appropriate with the way things are going. [;)]
Thad it is already common practice to sentence misdemeanor offenders to community service type jobs like trash pick-up and such.Not to mention how many prisons still require prisoners to do some sort of "job" while incarcerated.




Thadius -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 4:08:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Community service. There are plenty of repairs and cleaning jobs to be done in any city, town, county, rural area, etc.

Awesome idea V.

Forced labor seems appropriate with the way things are going. [;)]
Thad it is already common practice to sentence misdemeanor offenders to community service type jobs like trash pick-up and such.Not to mention how many prisons still require prisoners to do some sort of "job" while incarcerated.

Ah you don't see the irony in it do you?

So can I take it that you are now admitting that the new law would be making criminals out of otherwise decent citizens for simply not buying health insurance? Interesting.




Elisabella -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 4:10:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Yet you would still be entitled to care? Hardly a penalty.


Honey even without health insurance you can still pay out of pocket.




slvemike4u -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 4:16:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Community service. There are plenty of repairs and cleaning jobs to be done in any city, town, county, rural area, etc.

Awesome idea V.

Forced labor seems appropriate with the way things are going. [;)]
Thad it is already common practice to sentence misdemeanor offenders to community service type jobs like trash pick-up and such.Not to mention how many prisons still require prisoners to do some sort of "job" while incarcerated.

Ah you don't see the irony in it do you?

So can I take it that you are now admitting that the new law would be making criminals out of otherwise decent citizens for simply not buying health insurance? Interesting.
The question posed by the OP asked specifically about alternate penalties for non-compliance...Ven offered one...you came back with your forced labor crack...I merely pointed out that we in principal already "force" offenders to perform menial labor....in other words nothing new here.
Now if you want to make the jump you did.....I guess my only option would be to point out that "decent" people do in fact comply with their governments regulations.[8|]




Elisabella -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 4:21:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
I guess my only option would be to point out that "decent" people do in fact comply with their governments regulations.[8|]


Would you say someone who can't afford to pay for private health insurance is automatically not a decent person? Having the government tell you "you must do this" isn't going to make everyone automatically capable of doing it.

If you can't afford a car, you don't buy a car.
If you can't afford a house, you don't buy a house.

If you can't afford health insurance...you'll be fined a lot of money so you're even less able to afford it until somehow being fined magically makes you richer and then the problem is solved. [8|]




Mercnbeth -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 4:21:42 PM)

quote:

One can "own" the consequences of every decision they make and still be subject to forces outside their limited sphere of control.Whether or not you waste time with "either" is quite besides the point...you seem to be doing fine in the current economic climate,their are those who are less fortunate and are forced by their circumstances to deal with forces or at least to suffer from forces and events outside their control.I'm sure these people would like to be in the position where they could take your attitude
Wait a minute, I'm better served by this program than without it. MY home is subject to the same downward market conditions that should, and would, exist without government entitlement intervention.

I'm NOT doing "fine" I am doing GREAT! What has that got to do with this program? The same forces and opportunity which existed and still exist for me were, and are, in place for everyone. Did you buy health care stocks anticipating their government entitlement grant that they got on Monday as I suggested on Friday? Big opportunity there for a short term investment. Wish I was smart enough to default on my mortgage and have more money to invest!

To me the "less fortunate" are not those who overextended getting this entitlement; its those are locked out of the housing market because they can't get a mortgage as long as mortgage companies are being required to take another hit mandated by this Administration to use their already weakened assets to write off principle and 'forgive' payments.

quote:

Now this is just so much bullshit Merc the current crisis can not, by any stretch of the imagination, be laid solely at the feet of under water mortgages...while doing so might help to bolster your argument the facts themselves can not be altered just because they suit you.You object to my changing the meaning of a word...while you go ahead and redefine a financial cataclysm to suit your needs?
I never said it was. On the other hand are you representing this program solves the current "financial cataclysm" in the housing market?

To me it is not that at all. It is the latest entitlement program being initiated by this administration. In fact, I don't know why you think the car lease program is so far fetched. I would have thought a couple of years ago it similarly foolish to consider the government making someone's mortgage payments.

At least the government owns a car company who would benefit and perhaps could pay back some of that bail out money and employ some people in the manufacturing sector. Why is that a "silly little statement" while having your mortgage paid for you as a result of property values decreasing responsible government intervention?




Thadius -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 4:22:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Community service. There are plenty of repairs and cleaning jobs to be done in any city, town, county, rural area, etc.

Awesome idea V.

Forced labor seems appropriate with the way things are going. [;)]
Thad it is already common practice to sentence misdemeanor offenders to community service type jobs like trash pick-up and such.Not to mention how many prisons still require prisoners to do some sort of "job" while incarcerated.

Ah you don't see the irony in it do you?

So can I take it that you are now admitting that the new law would be making criminals out of otherwise decent citizens for simply not buying health insurance? Interesting.
The question posed by the OP asked specifically about alternate penalties for non-compliance...Ven offered one...you came back with your forced labor crack...I merely pointed out that we in principal already "force" offenders to perform menial labor....in other words nothing new here.
Now if you want to make the jump you did.....I guess my only option would be to point out that "decent" people do in fact comply with their governments regulations.[8|]

I guess that makes me indecent, as I have already stated I plan on forcing the issue as I still believe it to be an unconstitutional mandate on my individual freedom. I need to have the penalty emposed on me before I can file suit, that whole concept of having standing.

Guess all of those folks that have taken part in "civil disobedience" are also not to be considered as decent people? Thanks for the heads up.




slvemike4u -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 4:26:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
I guess my only option would be to point out that "decent" people do in fact comply with their governments regulations.[8|]


Would you say someone who can't afford to pay for private health insurance is automatically not a decent person? Having the government tell you "you must do this" isn't going to make everyone automatically capable of doing it.

If you can't afford a car, you don't buy a car.
If you can't afford a house, you don't buy a house.

If you can't afford health insurance...you'll be fined a lot of money so you're even less able to afford it until somehow being fined magically makes you richer and then the problem is solved. [8|]
Come on Elisabella,there are subsidies for those who "can't afford it"....and outright assistance for those below the poverty level.Financial penalties would only be imposed on those who reach a certain level of income and decide not to buy insurance....in other words those that willfully act in contravention to the law.....so yeah,in most instances I would conclude that they were lacking decency.




slvemike4u -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 4:30:46 PM)

Thad you know full well I made no judgement on your decency....but if you do insist on defying our governments dictates ....I'm afraid I will have to stop talking to you.....
Actually I am going to have to step out of this for awhile....in addition to Thad backing me into a corner I need to pack my car for the drive south tomorrow......I will return later to straighten out all the mistakes the rest of you are bound to make in my absence [:D]




Mercnbeth -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 4:32:39 PM)

quote:

I need to pack my car for the drive south tomorrow......I will return later to straighten out all the mistakes the rest of you are bound to make in my absence


Have a safe trip and a GREAT weekend Mike! [sm=car.gif]




Elisabella -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 4:34:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Come on Elisabella,there are subsidies for those who "can't afford it"....and outright assistance for those below the poverty level.Financial penalties would only be imposed on those who reach a certain level of income and decide not to buy insurance....in other words those that willfully act in contravention to the law.....so yeah,in most instances I would conclude that they were lacking decency.


Are you aware the US Poverty level is 2/3 of the income of a person working a full time minimum wage job?

For one- or two-person family units, the poverty thresholds differ by age; the 2008 threshold for one individual under age 65 is $11,201
http://www.irp.wisc.edu/faqs/faq1.htm

Yet a bit of math - $7.25 * 40 * 52 = $15,080. So basically ANYONE who works full time, will not meet poverty level guidelines. Not by a long shot.

So what do you tell the people who say "I can't afford it" and get told "well by our guidelines you can."

ETA: I know that $15k is a lot easier to live on in some places than in others. You can buy a house with land in Iowa for less mortgage a month than a studio apartment in Chicago. So for someone living in any metropolis...$15k a year does not leave much room in the budget for anything other than food transportation and shelter, and oftentimes "food" is sacrificed for the other two.




Real0ne -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 4:38:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I have asked pahunk, who cant seem to come up with an answer... so i will ask all of you here...

What penalty would you prefer?

Many complain about taxes, jail, ect (and i thought jail was out)...

so, name some penalties you feel would be better...

i personally see only taxes or denial of care on all levels... is this preferable?


penalties?

who is the injured party that someone has to pay damages?

Taxes?  To pay for your abortion?




pahunkboy -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 4:54:45 PM)

I would like to see a household that has 10k a year coming in- pay for this shit.

Do you ever her of Appalachia ?   The poor areas, normally associated with West Virginia.... well that is my area.  We have many here that bring in around 10k a year.   I don't necessarily mean retired either.

Absolutely pathetic that the govt gives AIG yet another bail out.   At the expense of poor assholes.

Next time y'all pass thru venture off the main highway a few miles.  Go 20 miles in.   There you will see shanties with no electric- or  conveniences.   You don't see this from the highway- but it is there- and more then you would guess.

Just what the country folk need.  Is a "policy"....     same people still pay federal, state and local tax.  On 10k a year.

You can imagine the discretionary income tally on 10k a year.

..we tho do have a Walmart.  




subtee -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 4:56:08 PM)

~FR

Isn't the requirement of paying taxes a mandate?




Vendaval -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 4:57:27 PM)

Elisabella,

I am seeing different figures for the subsidies. This from CNN.



"3. You could get a subsidy to buy insurance if you make less than $88,000 per year for a family of four.

Starting in 2014, the health care reform bill provides subsidies for people who don't get insurance from their employers and therefore have to buy it on their own. The size of the subsidy depends on your income, whether you're single or have a family, your age, and where you live.
Here are a few examples:

• A 40-year old individual making $30,000 a year in a medium-cost area of the country will get an $850 subsidy toward buying a policy, which should cost about $3,500, according to a Kaiser Family Foundation subsidy calculator.

• A 40-year-old in the same city who has a family of four and is making $60,000 will get a $4,220 subsidy toward a policy that costs $9,435.

You can estimate your own subsidy by using the Kaiser subsidy calculator.:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/03/25/health.care.law.basics/index.html


And from the Christian Science Monitor.

"Congressional budget experts figure that about 25 million people will shop for coverage in these exchanges. That’s a pretty big market. Of these, about 19 million are likely to be eligible for financial aid.

The cutoff level would be an income of four times the federal poverty level. For one person, that’s about $44,000 a year. For a family of four, the comparable figure is about $88,000.

Subsidies would be figured on a sliding scale, with those who make less getting a bigger boost and those nearer the top getting a smaller one.

The formula is pretty complicated. Basically, though, people who make three or four times the poverty level would get enough federal money so that they would not have to pay more than about 10 percent of their income for a decent health insurance package.

People who make less would have to pay a smaller slice of their income for coverage. For instance, individuals who make about $14,000, and four-person families with incomes of about $29,000, would not have to pay more than 3 to 4 percent of their incomes for insurance.

And those who make even less – under 133 percent of the federal poverty level – would be able to enroll in a newly expanded Medicaid program.

The federal subsidy would go straight to the insurer. It would look like a discount on the policy to the customer."

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0320/Health-care-reform-bill-101-Who-gets-subsidized-insurance





Silence8 -> RE: Name your penalty! (3/26/2010 5:00:49 PM)

These are all stupid ideas.

The penalty should be deducted from CEO's bonuses... duh! Trust me... they'll still 'get by'....




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