RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (Full Version)

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Jeffff -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/29/2010 6:52:34 PM)

And if everyone recovers...... no harm. no foul



Smutmonger -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/29/2010 6:53:49 PM)

I think that if you alter yourself to be with someone-that person is the one in real control.



Jeffff -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/29/2010 6:58:33 PM)

But define "alter". There is the rub.

I would never wish to be so inflexible as to not be able to learn and grow. So much depends on the people involved

Not even the Anteater knows it all



nancygirl34652 -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/29/2010 6:59:30 PM)

*gasps at Jeffff*...i find that difficult to believe!



Jeffff -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/29/2010 7:00:50 PM)

Yes I know... it is a hard thing to confront.

If it makes you feel better, I can't remember the last time I was wrong



nancygirl34652 -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/29/2010 7:04:49 PM)

i'm sure someone will...lol



Jeffff -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/29/2010 7:05:49 PM)

LOL... no doubt



Smutmonger -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/29/2010 7:07:38 PM)

Become someone you wouldn't talk to in your current state. Sort of like Rush Limbaugh becoming Elton John.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

But define "alter". There is the rub.

I would never wish to be so inflexible as to not be able to learn and grow. So much depends on the people involved

Not even the Anteater knows it all



Jeffff -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/29/2010 7:53:23 PM)

Ok.. that's "Altered". I can agree with that



Smutmonger -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/29/2010 7:58:23 PM)

I see a lot of supposed "D/s" becoming literally "the tail wagging the dog." I've never seen so many pussy whipped men-until I came out in a bdsm community and watched what "submissives" did to "Dominants."

Hell of a price to pay for kinky sex, and a *fantasy* of being in control. Good lord-you better be the perfect Dom-or you get to be the "predatory abuser" to everyone she knows when she goes stomping off.

Anyone who has been around for any time knows this stereotype. Only newbies and gossipy drama queens take it very seriously.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Ok.. that's "Altered". I can agree with that



LadyPact -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/29/2010 9:00:36 PM)

FR

This debate has gone on time and time again.  The ball is still in the court of a Top whether or not to adhere to that agreed upon safeword.  We are discussing control, not ethics.



lucylucy -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/29/2010 9:03:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterK13
I watched a CSI epispode where the moral was that because a sub can end the relationship/session at any momment he or she wants that makes them the ones in control what do you think of this?

How does a sub end a session? By using a safeword, usually. And does the safeword CAUSE the Dom to stop things? No, the Dom stops of his own volition, so to me, he's the one in control. He can choose to ignore the safeword, making him an asshole, sure, but an asshole in control.



OrpheusAgonistes -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/29/2010 9:13:31 PM)

At any given point in time, whomever absolutely needs it more is in the weaker position and whomever is more capable of walking away is in the catbird seat.



Kana -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/29/2010 9:26:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterK13

I watched a CSI episode where the moral was that because a sub can end the relationship/session at any moment he or she wants that makes them the ones in control what do you think of this?


Yeah. Ok.
As has been pointed out, she ain't the only one who can cut things off with a word.
I may or may not be in control (Control being such a nebulous thing. I mean really who controls their own life. We all operate under the control of some sort of external situations to some degree or another. Then there is the whole religion thing. Is God in charge? Yahweh? Allah?All I can tell is that sometimes I surf life and sometimes the wave eats my lunch) , but I can promise you one thing-she sure as hell isn't in charge of our relationship.
And that's the way we both like it.

Hell, I wanted to get topped from the bottom, I'd just get a girlfriend.




cloudboy -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/29/2010 10:16:54 PM)

In BDSM relationships, I would argue that "authority" is more important than "control." As applied to Simply Micheal's car analogy, I would say its the driver who has authority over the car, and the car is rather brainless in the relationship (unlike a person.)

Good authority figures don't obsess over controlling others, because they already know they don't control anyone. In lieu of control, the authority figure pays attention to earning respect, instilling discipline, and setting goals for those seeking leadership. To me a Dom/Domme is more like coach or teacher, and less like a boss, warden or policemen.

In BDSM control definitely lies with the sub (who decides what he'll do) but the authority is with the Dom (who sets forth a disciplinary structure.)

In the end there is a fruitful commingling and humility from each: The Dom needs a follower and the sub needs a leader.



LadyAngelika -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/29/2010 10:29:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

In BDSM relationships, I would argue that "authority" is more important than "control." As applied to Simply Micheal's car analogy, I would say its the driver who has authority over the car, and the car is rather brainless in the relationship (unlike a person.)

Good authority figures don't obsess over controlling others, because they already know they don't control anyone. In lieu of control, the authority figure pays attention to earning respect, instilling discipline, and setting goals for those seeking leadership. To me a Dom/Domme is more like coach or teacher, and less like a boss, warden or policemen.

In BDSM control definitely lies with the sub (who decides what he'll do) but the authority is with the Dom (who sets forth a disciplinary structure.)

In the end there is a fruitful commingling and humility from each: The Dom needs a follower and the sub needs a leader.


That just might be the first post of yours that I appreciate, cloudboy. Kudos. I strongly encourage you to make more of these thought provoking posts and less of the critical ones. They show your intelligence.

- LA



candisa -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/29/2010 10:58:40 PM)

I absolutely agree with this post, excellent writing, cloudboy. 
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

In BDSM relationships, I would argue that "authority" is more important than "control." As applied to Simply Micheal's car analogy, I would say its the driver who has authority over the car, and the car is rather brainless in the relationship (unlike a person.)

Good authority figures don't obsess over controlling others, because they already know they don't control anyone. In lieu of control, the authority figure pays attention to earning respect, instilling discipline, and setting goals for those seeking leadership. To me a Dom/Domme is more like coach or teacher, and less like a boss, warden or policemen.

In BDSM control definitely lies with the sub (who decides what he'll do) but the authority is with the Dom (who sets forth a disciplinary structure.)

In the end there is a fruitful commingling and humility from each: The Dom needs a follower and the sub needs a leader.



ranja -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/30/2010 1:59:13 AM)

Anybody who thinks that they are in control, whether they be sub , slave, Dom or Master, Mistress or even plain vanilla, are lost in an illusion, nice as that illusion might be,
nobody is ever truly in control of anything, maybe you manage to manipulate another to your satisfaction for a while, but that is about it.

Relationships are about compromises, cooperation and compassion, not so much about control

i think it is more like a game and if everybody plays nicely no matter how rough, it should be a lovely game and there will be no losers.

People are only at the top or the bottom because they like to be there and the other lets them be there.



Focus50 -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/30/2010 2:56:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

I find it interesting that so many people threw "safewords" into the mix when the OP said nothing about safewords.


Why is it relevant whether the OP mentioned safewords? You've been around for nearly 10 thousand personal posts and you've never once heard of a safeword being used as an example of the submissive having control....
quote:


I also think the quoted statement is hogwash.  Every relationship except the one you have with yourself involves another person staying in it and therefore agreeing to its terms, and neither has control over the other person, just over themself. 

while I agree about the "quoted statement", it's also just a nonsense to say "neither has control over the other person". Unequal control status is precisely what distinguishes a D/s or M/s relationship from your typical vanilla/egalitarian relationship.

Since neither Dom/me nor sub can function in their respective role without the existence of the other, both have EQUAL power and value to the other. But the *relationship* only works if the Dominant party is controlling the submissive.

Focus.



JonnieBoy -> RE: Who's really in control the Dom or sub? (3/30/2010 3:07:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

I find it interesting that so many people threw "safewords" into the mix when the OP said nothing about safewords.


Why is it relevant whether the OP mentioned safewords? You've been around for nearly 10 thousand personal posts and you've never once heard of a safeword being used as an example of the submissive having control....
quote:


I also think the quoted statement is hogwash.  Every relationship except the one you have with yourself involves another person staying in it and therefore agreeing to its terms, and neither has control over the other person, just over themself. 

while I agree about the "quoted statement", it's also just a nonsense to say "neither has control over the other person". Unequal control status is precisely what distinguishes a D/s or M/s relationship from your typical vanilla/egalitarian relationship.

Since neither Dom/me nor sub can function in their respective role without the existence of the other, both have EQUAL power and value to the other. But the *relationship* only works if the Dominant party is controlling the submissive.

Focus.


Profoundly contradictory ... think again ? ...

Pirate



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