Female Suicide Bombers (Full Version)

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LadyAngelika -> Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 4:40:06 PM)

On the commute in to work this morning, I was reading the news feed on my BlackBerry and a headline that sent a shiver down my spine.

Hunt for 'Black Widow' suicide bomb gang

quote:

Police in Moscow say that the two women suicide bombers who blew themselves up on packed underground trains this morning were accompanied by other women.


Beyond being horrified by an act of terrorism, I was doubly troubled by the idea that the terror was the act of women. I know, a fundamentally sexist though. Rationally, it makes no sense. I admit it.

The NY Times reports:

quote:

While there is no single reason women decide to give up their lives, experts say they have usually suffered a traumatic event that makes them burn with revenge or question whether they want to live. This can be the death of a child, husband or other family member at the hands of Russian forces or a rape. Russian authorities have said the women are sometimes drugged.


I was aware of female suicide bombers in the past but a little researching this evening lead me to discover research on the issue which I thought I might share with you.

quote:

Who Becomes a Female Suicide Bomber?

“The reasons for women’s participation in deadly attacks vary greatly and it is hard to generalize, for this phenomenon is too recent and the attacks have been too few. Either not enough research has been conducted yet or the sample size is too small to make effective generalizations.” Although the data are limited, female suicide bombers, just like male suicide bombers, have one characteristic which typifies all―they are young. The average age varies from 21.5 (Turkey) to 23 (Lebanon), a small differential. Other characteristics do not hold. Some are widows and others have never been married; some are unemployed and others are professionals; some are poor and others are middle class. Most analysts can easily compare the Black Widows in Russia with the Palestinian suicide bombers, since both appear to be serving “struggles of national identity” with religious overtones. Additionally, as is true of the male counterparts, several female suicide bombers have experienced the loss of a close friend or family member. The selection of women for suicide operations and the methods used to persuade them generally are similar to those employed for men. The recruiters take advantage of the candidates’ innocence, enthusiasm, personal distress, and thirst for revenge.

Finally, the question of when to recruit comes into play. Some believe that recruiters of female suicide bombers try to “get them while they are young as the LTTE leaders personally brainwashed preadolescent boys and girls, many of them orphans.” Russian authorities seem to believe that “you need complete control of all their conditioning, usually from the time they are 11 or 12.” At the same time, however, the Russians obviate their own argument by noting that the Chechen insurgency hasn’t been going on long enough to “grow” the number of female suicide bombers who have attacked them. Other Russians believe that the female suicide bombers are “sold” to terrorist organizations, drugged to perform such acts, and/or raped and blackmailed if they do not participate. Finally, as one journalist describing the Black Widows concluded, “There are so many theories to explain the women’s motivation that it is impossible to sort through them.”


Reading this reaffirmed my gut instincts. Women would be suicide bombers for significantly different reasons then men would be.

What are your thoughts?

- LA







Level -> RE: Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 4:45:11 PM)

How fucked up must their lives be, to see that as an option. I don't know how different they really are from the men, though.




tropicalhoney -> RE: Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 4:46:55 PM)

Thank you for doing the research. It certainly is horrifying to think that not only can the terrorists find one woman willing to act in this way, but they can find many. I guess it should not be too surprising though as both in the resistance in Europe in the 40's and in the early days in Israel many of the most proficient members were women. I have seen somewhere that the women were also less likely to break under torture than men.




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 5:10:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
How fucked up must their lives be, to see that as an option. I don't know how different they really are from the men, though.

It isn't about their life it's about their belief in a life ever after.

This is the problem with blind faith, nothing compares to it not even the real world.

Also they may have watched Avatar, I hear that has a negative effect on how you see the real world.




goldenwyrm1968 -> RE: Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 5:11:28 PM)

For starters, this really sucks. There are few enough women in the world, we don't need them blowing themselves up...
And the reasons are a lot different from the reasons than men do it. And the recruiter usually knows what works in turning a simple suicide thought to one of mass murder/suicide.
Men will do it because they generally believe that to die in the process of killing the enemy will bring themselves and thier family honor.
Women will do it in either retribution or an attempt to expunge guilt or erase dishonor.
You wouldn't know the stats for rape/abortion/miscarriages among the women that chose Suicide bombing as an option?

As for women not breaking under conditions where a man would.... Women have a higher pain tolerance, both physically and emotionally than men. Also most cultures cater to a man's pride while subjugating women... Really, why should a women break when her life is only destined for pain and suffering and the one thing that gives her life meaning will go away if she lets go of her secret....




Fellow -> RE: Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 5:16:38 PM)

Basically, I think Russian government is responsible for the attacks.  There is certain abuse threshold people can take. The government should recognize this and restrain its activities. The war crimes and human rights violations in North Caucasus are horrific. The oil wars seem immune from the  international law.




xBullx -> RE: Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 5:16:59 PM)


Those femmists will go to any length to bridge barriers, won't they.....[:D]




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 5:17:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: goldenwyrm1968
For starters, this really sucks. There are few enough women in the world, we don't need them blowing themselves up...


I think in the world beyond internet dating the probability that the next person you meet in the street will be female is about 50/50 due to the nature of genetics.




servantforuse -> RE: Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 5:23:45 PM)

There must be unhappy feminists in Russia as well.




Level -> RE: Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 5:34:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
How fucked up must their lives be, to see that as an option. I don't know how different they really are from the men, though.

It isn't about their life it's about their belief in a life ever after.

This is the problem with blind faith, nothing compares to it not even the real world.

Also they may have watched Avatar, I hear that has a negative effect on how you see the real world.



This brings up a good question; what do the women of Islam believe, in terms of an afterlife? It's not the same gig as what the menfolk are promised, so, what do they think they're going to have?




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 5:47:37 PM)

I thought everyone got paradise. Although as someone else mentioned once; I'm not sure what the twenty virgins did wrong in a previous life to be at the beck and call of mass murderers.




jlf1961 -> RE: Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 5:50:07 PM)

I find it disappointing that something so serious brings out some sort of attempt at humor.

While some of these women (and men) for that matter may actually be brainwashed, the simple fact is that extremism in any form can create people who are willing to die for a cause. What many people seem to have lost sight of is that dieing is easy, living is hard.




Level -> RE: Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 5:50:41 PM)

I assume they all get some sort of paradise; it's just that you never hear what the women are promised. The guy gets the herd of virgins, the woman gets left alone by asshole guy?




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 5:52:10 PM)

Dying isn't easy, if it were they'd be more people doing it.




goldenwyrm1968 -> RE: Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 5:53:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

quote:

ORIGINAL: goldenwyrm1968
For starters, this really sucks. There are few enough women in the world, we don't need them blowing themselves up...


I think in the world beyond internet dating the probability that the next person you meet in the street will be female is about 50/50 due to the nature of genetics.

Maybe in the US and Industrialized world, i.e. Western europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio
There are indications that in some parts of the world, China and India included, The ratio of Males to females are skewed by more than 11 or 12 to 10. Even in the United States, the ratio is skewed towards more men under the age of 65....

That being said, some of those women chosing to suicide bomb, may prefer that to being a second wife....




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 5:55:53 PM)

Oh god you checked, I was just bluffing: there is every chance I'm totally wrong as to who the next person you meet will be.




Level -> RE: Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 5:58:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

Dying isn't easy, if it were they'd be more people doing it.


Depends on how you see the world, I suppose. That's probably part of the "art" of choosing the bombers.




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 6:05:17 PM)

I find it strange in the west that we are so taken aback by the fact some people are willing to die for something they believe in.

I mean we seem to get hysterical about it, like murder becomes different somehow if you then kill yourself as well. The west seems to hate the suicide aspect more than the crime itself, I'm not sure why? When terrorists plant bombs we can understand that but those that are willing to die? When was the last time anyone ever felt that way?

Perhaps you are willing to die to make the lives of someone you love better or keep them secure, this we could understand as individuals because it once again on some level is about our peace of mind. The survival instinct is hard to fight.




LadyAngelika -> RE: Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 7:03:53 PM)

SL4V3M4YB3, the thing is, suicide bombers are rarely really doing it out of conviction. Often times, it is the weak that are sent to do this mission. If you read the study I linked to in the OP, you'll learn a little about the brainwashing technique used to get the young, the weak, the disenfranchised, the victims and find a way to twist their minds into doing it. If being a suicide bomber was so honourable, Osama would have done 911 himself to get the glory in Allah's eyes and not send other to do it.

I have a few people in my life who grew up in Middle Eastern countries and witnessed this type of conditioning. My ex lost a few friends during high school to this. One day, they didn't show up for school, then the news came.

You can't see suicidal bombing as dying for something you believe in. You have to see it for what it's worth, armies conditioning "disposable humans" as weapons.

- LA




Smutmonger -> RE: Female Suicide Bombers (3/29/2010 7:23:38 PM)

A tamil tiger suicide bomber took out the son of Indira Ghandi years back,he was running for office.. They have a picture of *her* bowing politely to him  from a few feet away seconds before she triggered the vest. Only her head and feet were left to identify.

This is nothing new or extraordinary-terrorists will use whoever can do the job best.




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