am i a bad sub? (Full Version)

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gungadin09 -> am i a bad sub? (3/31/2010 11:24:21 PM)

i just started doing this a couple of months ago. Master and i broke up after 2 months, and i've been obsessing about it since. i would be grateful to anyone who would answer my questions, because i don't have anyone else to ask. Please keep in mind that i'm very inexperienced, so i'm sorry if these seem like stupid questions.

1. if the Dom violates a hard limit (like not using a condom) is this a good enough reason for the sub to end the relationship? How serious is it for a Dom to violate a hard limit?
2. if the Dom is inconsistent or dishonest does the sub have the right to be upset about it?
3. As a sub, is it my duty to submit to every Dom, or just to my owner? While i was His, my Master instructed me not to respond to emails from other Doms. Now that i'm single, do i need to respond and communicate with every Dom that wishes it, or do i have a choice?
4. Do i have the right to say to a Dom that i don't want a relationship right now?
5. Is it reasonable for a Dom who i've exchanged emails with but never met to expect me to send them explicit photos or to masturbate for them, when i'm not in a relationship with them?
6. Most of the time, when i communicate with Doms on this site they automatically assume that i am beginning a relationship with them, even if i specifically say that i don't want a relationship. Does that mean that i shouldn't expect to have a plutonic relationship with a Dom? Am i sending out the wrong signals by talking to them at all? I'm very new at this, and usually when i talk to Doms, it's because i need advice or feedback. Is it wrong of me to expect to be able to "just talk" to a Dom?
7. i work really long hours (sometimes 80 hours a week). One of my hard limits is to have my work schedule respected. Specifically, not to be asked to spend hours texting every day, because i have very limited free time during the work week. Is it reasonable for me to ask this?
8. How unusual is it not to have a safeword? Who usually chooses it, the Dom or the sub?
9. There were times with my Master when He would give me an order and i would obey it, but then He would act suprised that i obeyed Him, as if He didn't really expect it. This always upset me. i take orders very literally and was very careful to do exactly what i was told. It frustrated me that He would give me an order, but not mean it. Did i have any right to feel this way?
10. i have a strong distaste for conflict, and when i'm upset i usually don't talk about it. My normal reaction (and i know it's a really bad one) is to just avoid the situation altogether; stop answering emails or phone calls, move, change my email address, get a different job. i know this is the wrong reaction, but what is the right one? i endure the situation until i can't anymore, and then i bolt. i feel like i have no right to argue or ask for better treatment even if i'm being treated really badly, but eventually there comes a point when i just can't take it anymore. What should i do in this situation?

Sorry if i seem really ignorant. Like i said, i'm new to this, and i have to ask someone. Thanks for reading this, and if You feel like responding i would welcome any feedback. Thanks!
pam



DarkSteven -> RE: am i a bad sub? (4/1/2010 12:26:06 AM)

Hi, pam.  Welcome!

quote:

i just started doing this a couple of months ago. Master and i broke up after 2 months, and i've been obsessing about it since. i would be grateful to anyone who would answer my questions, because i don't have anyone else to ask. Please keep in mind that i'm very inexperienced, so i'm sorry if these seem like stupid questions.

1. if the Dom violates a hard limit (like not using a condom) is this a good enough reason for the sub to end the relationship? How serious is it for a Dom to violate a hard limit?


The general answer is that a hard limit should never be broken.  Period.  However, if your hard limit is a must-have for a Dom, then he might - carefully - slowly get you accustomed to it.  The sub MUST be aware of this, and understand and consent to it. 
quote:



2. if the Dom is inconsistent or dishonest does the sub have the right to be upset about it?


Depends.  None of us can be consistent all the time.  But being inconsistent regularly is not a good thing.  The Dom is responsible for the foundation of the relationship, and if he's not up to it...

Dishonesty about big things (cheating on you, hiding a gambling problem, etc.) are deal breakers.
quote:



3. As a sub, is it my duty to submit to every Dom, or just to my owner? While i was His, my Master instructed me not to respond to emails from other Doms. Now that i'm single, do i need to respond and communicate with every Dom that wishes it, or do i have a choice?


As a sub, it is your responsibility to submit to your Owner, and any other Doms he tells you to submit to.  (With the huge caveat that submitting sexually may not be all right to you.  But talking with them, serving them drinks, etc. is your responsibility.)

Now that you're not owned, you do not need to act like a sub.  Respond to those you wish to respond to.  You'll run across some idiots who insist that you need to respond to them because they call themselves Doms - block and ignore them.
quote:



4. Do i have the right to say to a Dom that i don't want a relationship right now? 


Absolutely. 
quote:



5. Is it reasonable for a Dom who i've exchanged emails with but never met to expect me to send them explicit photos or to masturbate for them, when i'm not in a relationship with them?


He can expect it if he likes.  But you definitely do not need to comply.  if you get uncomfortable, block and ignore - you owe him nothing.
quote:



6. Most of the time, when i communicate with Doms on this site they automatically assume that i am beginning a relationship with them, even if i specifically say that i don't want a relationship. Does that mean that i shouldn't expect to have a plutonic relationship with a Dom? Am i sending out the wrong signals by talking to them at all? I'm very new at this, and usually when i talk to Doms, it's because i need advice or feedback. Is it wrong of me to expect to be able to "just talk" to a Dom?


Your responsibility is to tell them what kind of relationship you're open to, and you're doing that.  If they cannot accept that, block and ignore.
quote:



7. i work really long hours (sometimes 80 hours a week). One of my hard limits is to have my work schedule respected. Specifically, not to be asked to spend hours texting every day, because i have very limited free time during the work week. Is it reasonable for me to ask this?


Absolutely.  Any Dom worth anything will direct you in a way that is healthy for you. 
quote:



8. How unusual is it not to have a safeword? Who usually chooses it, the Dom or the sub?


Safewords are a very good idea when playing for the first few times.  In a LTR, they're not so needed.  Who chooses it is immaterial.  I think you're asking who chooses for the sub to have a safeword, in which case the answer is it depends.  If either partner wants one, it should be used.
quote:



9. There were times with my Master when He would give me an order and i would obey it, but then He would act suprised that i obeyed Him, as if He didn't really expect it. This always upset me. i take orders very literally and was very careful to do exactly what i was told. It frustrated me that He would give me an order, but not mean it. Did i have any right to feel this way?


pam, you have a right to any feelings that you have.  It sounds like he was not used to being a Dom (at least not to an obedient sub).  Did you discuss this with him?  Next time, if this happens, tell your Dom what kind of reaction trips your trigger.  (I imagine a smile, a "Good girl", and perhaps a pat on the head would work.)
quote:




10. i have a strong distaste for conflict, and when i'm upset i usually don't talk about it. My normal reaction (and i know it's a really bad one) is to just avoid the situation altogether; stop answering emails or phone calls, move, change my email address, get a different job. i know this is the wrong reaction, but what is the right one? i endure the situation until i can't anymore, and then i bolt. i feel like i have no right to argue or ask for better treatment even if i'm being treated really badly, but eventually there comes a point when i just can't take it anymore. What should i do in this situation?


You already know the answer.  Get the guts to speak up about problems.  With respect to a D/s relationship, I'd recommend asking the Dom at the beginning of a relationship to set aside once a week to discuss likes/dislikes, where-do-we-go-from-here meetings with you.  If he makes you do it, maybe you will.

And since you'd be moving anyway... there are worse places than Colorado (and there are too damn few sub women here for too many Dom men).
quote:



Sorry if i seem really ignorant. Like i said, i'm new to this, and i have to ask someone. Thanks for reading this, and if You feel like responding i would welcome any feedback. Thanks!
pam


You're welcome, pam!



lally2 -> RE: am i a bad sub? (4/1/2010 1:56:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

i just started doing this a couple of months ago. Master and i broke up after 2 months, and i've been obsessing about it since. i would be grateful to anyone who would answer my questions, because i don't have anyone else to ask. Please keep in mind that i'm very inexperienced, so i'm sorry if these seem like stupid questions.

1. if the Dom violates a hard limit (like not using a condom) is this a good enough reason for the sub to end the relationship? How serious is it for a Dom to violate a hard limit?

hard limits are there to be respected.  when youre in a serious monogamous relationship its worth getting checked for STDs before unprotected sex. if its a good enough reason for you then its good enough

2. if the Dom is inconsistent or dishonest does the sub have the right to be upset about it?

yes.  inconsistancy can be very confusing and very unsettling

3. As a sub, is it my duty to submit to every Dom, or just to my owner? While i was His, my Master instructed me not to respond to emails from other Doms. Now that i'm single, do i need to respond and communicate with every Dom that wishes it, or do i have a choice?

when with a Dom its reasonable of him to ask that you dont speak to other doms because some of them poach some of them like to tell you how bad youre dom is for doing blah blah - when not with a dom you can speak to whoever you like and if you dont like, dont.

4. Do i have the right to say to a Dom that i don't want a relationship right now?

sorry, but how old are you, how many relationships have you had outside of this, youre not obliged to do anything youre not ready to do whilst youre free to make choices

5. Is it reasonable for a Dom who i've exchanged emails with but never met to expect me to send them explicit photos or to masturbate for them, when i'm not in a relationship with them?

not if you dont want to.  youre not in a relationship with them they have no 'right' to expect or demand anything from you. if they do and try to pull the Dom card on you, walk

6. Most of the time, when i communicate with Doms on this site they automatically assume that i am beginning a relationship with them, even if i specifically say that i don't want a relationship. Does that mean that i shouldn't expect to have a plutonic relationship with a Dom? Am i sending out the wrong signals by talking to them at all? I'm very new at this, and usually when i talk to Doms, it's because i need advice or feedback. Is it wrong of me to expect to be able to "just talk" to a Dom?

you can talk to whovever you like as much as you like, thats how you get to know whether theyre someone youll get along with.  so long as you state clearly from the start and in youre profile that you are not ready to start anything they have no reason to assume anything - and its platonic

7. i work really long hours (sometimes 80 hours a week). One of my hard limits is to have my work schedule respected. Specifically, not to be asked to spend hours texting every day, because i have very limited free time during the work week. Is it reasonable for me to ask this?

in the early stages of any relationship it is youre responsibility to make clear how things are in youre life.  the dom that respects and works around it is the sort youre after, the others you should ditch as pushy players

8. How unusual is it not to have a safeword? Who usually chooses it, the Dom or the sub?

its not unusual at all, ive never had one, never wanted one - either may choose, you may ask for one the dom may insist on one

9. There were times with my Master when He would give me an order and i would obey it, but then He would act suprised that i obeyed Him, as if He didn't really expect it. This always upset me. i take orders very literally and was very careful to do exactly what i was told. It frustrated me that He would give me an order, but not mean it. Did i have any right to feel this way?

he sounds like an idiot - move on - shades of that inconsistancy thing you were talking about earlier.  why give an order if you have no real interest in it being carried out or any belief that it would be.  was he trying to set you up to fail so he could punish you - its possible.  like i said, passed chapter, learn from it and move on

10. i have a strong distaste for conflict, and when i'm upset i usually don't talk about it. My normal reaction (and i know it's a really bad one) is to just avoid the situation altogether; stop answering emails or phone calls, move, change my email address, get a different job. i know this is the wrong reaction, but what is the right one? i endure the situation until i can't anymore, and then i bolt. i feel like i have no right to argue or ask for better treatment even if i'm being treated really badly, but eventually there comes a point when i just can't take it anymore. What should i do in this situation?

if its a situation you value and you value the person youre with, then talk, ask to talk about it, work out what you want to say or maybe ask if you can write it down and give it to them to read, write respectfully and carefully.

Sorry if i seem really ignorant. Like i said, i'm new to this, and i have to ask someone. Thanks for reading this, and if You feel like responding i would welcome any feedback. Thanks!

youre not, its good to ask.  btw, this is just my opinion and how i see things, others may see it differently, we all find our own way
pam



Focus50 -> RE: am i a bad sub? (4/1/2010 5:03:52 AM)

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

i just started doing this a couple of months ago. Master and i broke up after 2 months, and i've been obsessing about it since. i would be grateful to anyone who would answer my questions, because i don't have anyone else to ask. Please keep in mind that i'm very inexperienced, so i'm sorry if these seem like stupid questions.

1. if the Dom violates a hard limit (like not using a condom) is this a good enough reason for the sub to end the relationship? How serious is it for a Dom to violate a hard limit?
Agreed hard limits are about mutual trust. He intentionally breaks one, he proves himself untrustworthy. Anyone can slip up once, but yes, serious enough for a sub to rightly end the relationship.


2. if the Dom is inconsistent or dishonest does the sub have the right to be upset about it?
Absolutely - more untrustworthiness.


3. As a sub, is it my duty to submit to every Dom, or just to my owner? While i was His, my Master instructed me not to respond to emails from other Doms. Now that i'm single, do i need to respond and communicate with every Dom that wishes it, or do i have a choice?
When you're single and alone etc, you're not obligated to anyone but *you*. I suggest you only resond to doms who are sincere, polite and respectful to *you*. Anyone else, you ignore and block them if necessary.


4. Do i have the right to say to a Dom that i don't want a relationship right now?
Absolutely! It's no different to the vanilla world - YOU decide who you wanna be with, and when.


5. Is it reasonable for a Dom who i've exchanged emails with but never met to expect me to send them explicit photos or to masturbate for them, when i'm not in a relationship with them?
No - piss 'em off altogether if that sort of thing bothers you. Again, "sincere, polite and respectful to *you*" - doesn't sound like that crap is, ay?


6. Most of the time, when i communicate with Doms on this site they automatically assume that i am beginning a relationship with them, even if i specifically say that i don't want a relationship. Does that mean that i shouldn't expect to have a plutonic relationship with a Dom? Am i sending out the wrong signals by talking to them at all? I'm very new at this, and usually when i talk to Doms, it's because i need advice or feedback. Is it wrong of me to expect to be able to "just talk" to a Dom?
Again, *you* get to decide who you're in a relationship with, too. That's taking advantage of your inexperience = *untrustworthy* = ignore/block/delete them etc.


7. i work really long hours (sometimes 80 hours a week). One of my hard limits is to have my work schedule respected. Specifically, not to be asked to spend hours texting every day, because i have very limited free time during the work week. Is it reasonable for me to ask this?
Yep, a reasonable hard limit. Call in EMERGENCY ONLY!


8. How unusual is it not to have a safeword? Who usually chooses it, the Dom or the sub?
Depends how much you know and trust each other. I (Dom) usually choose one I'll readily recognise but it doesn't matter. As long as you both know it for what it is and means.


9. There were times with my Master when He would give me an order and i would obey it, but then He would act suprised that i obeyed Him, as if He didn't really expect it. This always upset me. i take orders very literally and was very careful to do exactly what i was told. It frustrated me that He would give me an order, but not mean it. Did i have any right to feel this way?
A sub takes her lead from the standards and rules her Dom sets. Clearly he was inconsistent and confusing you so I can understand your frustration. Sounds a bit like inexperience on his part, too, as well as having little understanding of his partner in general.


10. i have a strong distaste for conflict, and when i'm upset i usually don't talk about it. My normal reaction (and i know it's a really bad one) is to just avoid the situation altogether; stop answering emails or phone calls, move, change my email address, get a different job. i know this is the wrong reaction, but what is the right one? i endure the situation until i can't anymore, and then i bolt. i feel like i have no right to argue or ask for better treatment even if i'm being treated really badly, but eventually there comes a point when i just can't take it anymore. What should i do in this situation?
You need to acknowledge the warning signs sooner and speak up. Doesn't sound like your master was too receptive but that's a matter of finding the right partner for you - one you can talk to. Your Dom shouldn't be someone you fear - that just doesn't work. I know when something is wrong with my girl and I get frustrated (yeah, angry) if I hafta drag it out of her. There's times to be formal and obey without question but there should always be the opportunity for you to speak as an equal adult, too. No Dom can read your mind, so a decent one will at least know something's amiss and wanna discuss it - do NOT waste such an opportunity.

Lastly, your innocence is adorable and will be exploited by the unscrupulous. Absolutely do NOT allow yourself to become slave to your own keyboard. Forget the Sir/Dom/Master title crap of those who write to you and treat all as you'd wanna be treated yourself. Do NOT indulge the rude and obnoxious - just delete their crap and block them...!

And welcome to the Forums... :-)

Focus.



barelynangel -> RE: am i a bad sub? (4/1/2010 6:02:52 AM)

Some people will give you absolutes in this but just like in any relationship -- you will need to form your own answers to these questions. Because many of these questions seem to say how much am i willing to give in this relationship before i call it quits. For some people (now mind you i am pretty ignorant in understanding the concept of limits much less hard or soft lol but i have read different things. Some people believe a Dom or Master will and should push hard limits if the relationship is one of that nature wherein hard limit simply means need to work through. Some people will say hard limit means absolute limit. Personally i think the terminology should be better defined.

As far as inconsistent or dishonest -- again, this is something you have to determine if the cost to you in trying to regain the balance of trust with the Dom is greater to you that the value of the relationship, then you will probably leave. If the value of the relationship is greater than the working on regaining and fixing the trust, than you probably will stay.

Number three is simple -- if you want to respond to someone who writes you then its your determination. If you don't, again its your determination. Accept your responsibility for your choices and you will be fine.

Number 4 -- i think you know this answer being new to BDSM doesn't mean you lose your common sense.

Number 5 -- do you masterbate for people on the street who you talk too? Do you accept explicit pictures from people you barely know? Again, common sense and this decision is yours, own it when you make it.

Number 6 -- this is a hard one. Because if you like someone and want to get to know them and they believe you are in a relationship -- because they are moving to fast you could lose out on something you might enjoy etc. I would be firm and say in your profile that you aren't looking for a relatiomship right now. If you feel someone believes you are starting it with them then be firm with them and say no you aren't. Then the responsibility is theres to understand that.

Number 7 -- again common sense. You need to be clear to people and say this to them. If they disrespect it, you have the option of not picking up their calls. That's the fun thing about a phone -- you don't have to answer it until you are good and ready too.

Number 8 -- i really don't get safewords so i will leave this to others to respond to.

Number 9 -- your first quetion and this question seem to connect. Maybe he was not sure of himself and what he should and should not ask you to do. Maybe he was expecting resistance from you and instead you gave him none. Maybe he was feeling the waters. Maybe you were too careful -- in otherwords, maybe he felt you were trying to hard and was fabricating so to speak your feelings of submission and simply focusing on the actions. So he at times tested you to perhaps gauge your reactions or observe you. Masters and dominance in my opinion are concepts of evolving into things. Did you ever tell him about how frustrated you were?

Number 10 This is actually your problem no one elses including the doms outside of how you effect your relationships. As an adult, its time perhaps you start talking instead of running. You can't expect Men to read your mind, you can't expect their crystal ball to be working. If you have an issue then you should talk to him. As a sub, if you set down things at the beginning then you should be capable of talking to him when you feel things aren't right. Your paragraph here tells me you like to play the victim. Your statements like

quote:

i endure the situation until i can't anymore, and then i bolt. i feel like i have no right to argue or ask for better treatment even if i'm being treated really badly, but eventually there comes a point when i just can't take it anymore. What should i do in this situation?


Are the statements of a person who wants to make everyone else wrong and her the victim in all situations so that you don't have to take responsibility. That's why you run, you don't want to take responsibility for YOUR part in the whole. You don't answer phone calls or emails because if no one says you may be the one wrong or that there are things you can do to make it better or that there is a 50/50 contribution to relationships and all the conflicts that go with them, you don't have to be responsible for your own actions and contribution.

What do you do -- you learn to be an adult and have an adult relationship. You stop being comfortable as the victim and take responsibility of your choices but also as a contributor to the situation. You either make the responsible decision to talk about issues if you have them and inform the other person -- or you take responsibility of your decision to leave without doing so and carry the weight of your own contribution to conflict. Just so you know -- avoiding conflict by ignoring the situation is still being PART of the conflict and contributing to the conflict.


There is a difference between being someone who is new to all this and being someone who lacks common sense. You are 34 years old, i doubt you are ignorant of relationships between people. Just because this is a different type of relationship doesn't mean that being involved in same changes all that much. It involves communication. It involves common sense. If you wouldn't do it as a vanilla person -- then it doesn't need to be done here unless you want too.

Again, these questions in the end will be answered as absolutes by some. But in the end, you are an adult, you are 34 years old. YOU will have to decide what works for you and what you want to accept and what you are willing to work on and its a case by case decision to me. IT all comes down to me of cost and value. Is the cost that you will have to expend higher than the value -- are you willing to pay it? However, you need to get out of victim mode if you plan on exploring this type of situation, because it seems you put yourself in that mode.

And you have to be responsible and own your decisions and choices -- the good ones, bad ones and ugly ones. And remember most people's crystal balls are in the shop. If you want someone to know you don't like something, don't want something, etc etc etc, always presume until you actually tell them -- they don't know.


Good luck. angel



kanina -> RE: am i a bad sub? (4/1/2010 7:34:20 AM)

sometimes people forget that a bdsm relationship  is above all things, a relationship, and as such both people in it, must feel good about it, otherwise theres no point in being in one...



Mercnbeth -> RE: am i a bad sub? (4/1/2010 8:24:53 AM)


quote:


1. if the Dom violates a hard limit (like not using a condom) is this a good enough reason for the sub to end the relationship? How serious is it for a Dom to violate a hard limit?

2. if the Dom is inconsistent or dishonest does the sub have the right to be upset about it?

3. As a sub, is it my duty to submit to every Dom, or just to my owner? While i was His, my Master instructed me not to respond to emails from other Doms. Now that i'm single, do i need to respond and communicate with every Dom that wishes it, or do i have a choice?

4. Do i have the right to say to a Dom that i don't want a relationship right now?

5. Is it reasonable for a Dom who i've exchanged emails with but never met to expect me to send them explicit photos or to masturbate for them, when i'm not in a relationship with them?

6. Most of the time, when i communicate with Doms on this site they automatically assume that i am beginning a relationship with them, even if i specifically say that i don't want a relationship. Does that mean that i shouldn't expect to have a plutonic relationship with a Dom? Am i sending out the wrong signals by talking to them at all? I'm very new at this, and usually when i talk to Doms, it's because i need advice or feedback. Is it wrong of me to expect to be able to "just talk" to a Dom?

7. i work really long hours (sometimes 80 hours a week). One of my hard limits is to have my work schedule respected. Specifically, not to be asked to spend hours texting every day, because i have very limited free time during the work week. Is it reasonable for me to ask this?

8. How unusual is it not to have a safeword? Who usually chooses it, the Dom or the sub?

9. There were times with my Master when He would give me an order and i would obey it, but then He would act suprised that i obeyed Him, as if He didn't really expect it. This always upset me. i take orders very literally and was very careful to do exactly what i was told. It frustrated me that He would give me an order, but not mean it. Did i have any right to feel this way?

10. i have a strong distaste for conflict, and when i'm upset i usually don't talk about it. My normal reaction (and i know it's a really bad one) is to just avoid the situation altogether; stop answering emails or phone calls, move, change my email address, get a different job. i know this is the wrong reaction, but what is the right one? i endure the situation until i can't anymore, and then i bolt. i feel like i have no right to argue or ask for better treatment even if i'm being treated really badly, but eventually there comes a point when i just can't take it anymore. What should i do in this situation?



Doms, subs and the relationships they form are NOT all the same...therefore none of your questions can reasonably be answered with a one-size-fits-all response, especially when you ask about the right or wrong-ness of actions or reactions or what your submissive "rights" are.

this slave would suggest to you that you and your intended partner(s) should craft a D/s relationship the way you'd all like it to be...there are no D/s police to come along and cite any of you for doing D/s "wrong".



Missokyst -> RE: am i a bad sub? (4/1/2010 9:21:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09



quote:

i just started doing this a couple of months ago. Master and i broke up after 2 months, and i've been obsessing about it since. i would be grateful to anyone who would answer my questions, because i don't have anyone else to ask. Please keep in mind that i'm very inexperienced, so i'm sorry if these seem like stupid questions.


I find it is easier to sort it out this way. People are people and you will find jerks in nilla or BDSM. If it feels wrong to you don't force it to be acceptable simply because it is kink. If you were helping out a friend or sister with a new relationship would any of those things be something you would tell her is OK?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

And since you'd be moving anyway... there are worse places than Colorado (and there are too damn few sub women here for too many Dom men).



*grumble* You have an excess of dom men? It is time for some of them to move! Might I suggest..
CALIFORNIA!! Especially Northern CA!



RealSub58 -> RE: am i a bad sub? (4/1/2010 9:34:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09


2. if the Dom is inconsistent or dishonest does the sub have the right to be upset about it?
Everyone is dishonest to some degree.
Deception is a hard limit for me.
It took me 1 1/2 yrs to walk away from one Dom related to deception.  I did not realize at the time the damage I put myself through.
This last time deception awareness came via another form and I was stunned, but I REFUSED to allow myself the pitiful pity party I went through last time.
What surprised me was that the man owned up to his mistakes and deception, admitted it and asked for forgiveness.  Loosing my trust.... rebuilding is important.
10. i have a strong distaste for conflict, and when i'm upset i usually don't talk about it. My normal reaction (and i know it's a really bad one) is to just avoid the situation altogether; stop answering emails or phone calls, move, change my email address, get a different job. i know this is the wrong reaction, but what is the right one? i endure the situation until i can't anymore, and then i bolt. i feel like i have no right to argue or ask for better treatment even if i'm being treated really badly, but eventually there comes a point when i just can't take it anymore. What should i do in this situation?
I too have much difficulty with conflict.
I ignore conflict at all means possible.
I have lost jobs because of this.
I am learning how to confront conflict without the anger, and pity that I place on myself. 
I am learning to judge if I should even confront conflict and of course respond appropriately.
It is a learning process.
Sorry if i seem really ignorant.
You are NOT ignorant.  Owning your questions and your reaction to responses is important.  Everyone starts somewhere.



graceadieu -> RE: am i a bad sub? (4/1/2010 1:55:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven]
The Dom is responsible for the foundation of the relationship, and if he's not up to it...


While I agree with you about most things you've said, and think you gave the OP a lot of good advice, this is something I see from a lot of people and always bugs me. I don't think one person can be the "foundation" of a relationship, if it's going to be stable and lasting. Being engaged in building a sucessful relationship rests on both partners, regardless of who has what authority or power.



Focus50 -> RE: am i a bad sub? (4/1/2010 2:26:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Doms, subs and the relationships they form are NOT all the same...therefore none of your questions can reasonably be answered with a one-size-fits-all response, especially when you ask about the right or wrong-ness of actions or reactions or what your submissive "rights" are.

this slave would suggest to you that you and your intended partner(s) should craft a D/s relationship the way you'd all like it to be...there are no D/s police to come along and cite any of you for doing D/s "wrong".

Absolutely disagree...!

She's clearly brand new to it all and while every individual is different, when you're teaching/showing someone how to do *anything* new, you at least give them the basic tools to make forward progress. You're not teaching a newbie how to do it your way; you're giving general guidelines for them to ultimately fine-tune to their specific needs.

Surely you noted she's not up to the stage of having a current partner to craft anything with? She's just trying to make sense of her last (and likely first) M/s relationship and is now trying to navigate the locust swarm of "dom" geek-mail.

I've read enough of your posts to know this isn't one of your shinier examples.

Focus.



Jeffff -> RE: am i a bad sub? (4/1/2010 2:35:05 PM)

And I disagree with you.

The only general guidelines are the same ones you would apply to any relationship.

Those vary from person to person



littleone35 -> RE: am i a bad sub? (4/1/2010 4:14:02 PM)

Why are you asking if you are a bad sub? Did it ever occur he is a bad Dom. That is what i get from your post. Just to address you first point About Dom's violating you hard limits. I love my Master more than i ever though possible, but if he violated my hard limits, it would mean he is not the man i fell in love with. It would hurt , but i would walk away. Your hard limits are that for a reason, if is something that would hurt you physically, enotionally or mentally is should not even be a queation of them being kept. You might find as you go deeper into a good relationship that your limits change, but until they do (if ever) your Dom has to respect them or he is a rotton Dom and possible abuser.

Matt's littleone



trueshadow -> RE: am i a bad sub? (4/1/2010 4:36:35 PM)

Hard limits such as wearing a condom is something that shouldn't be disregarded. That's grounds enough to break off a relationship. 

You are a submissive woman, not an automaton who must answer e-mails from anyone and everyone.  Stand on your own two feet.  When you find someone you are comfortable with, then you can get on your knees.

No you aren't sending out signals.  Many folks here are fakes, posers, and totally clueless if not worse.  Ignore the folks who treat you as their property before they've passed your inspection.  You do have power; you just give it up when you feel the the time is right.

Good luck to you.  I sense you are sincere, and think you will make some Dom very happy.



dreamerdreaming -> RE: am i a bad sub? (4/1/2010 5:17:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09


1.YES!
2. YES!
3. If there is no agreed-upon dynamic in place, tell them to fuck off. These are dickwads. Any dom worth his salt will not expect submission from you until you've come to an agreement. In your vanilla life, would you fuck every guy who wanted to fuck you, just because he wanted to? [8|] 
Of course not. They might be assholes or fools, and they might have deadly, nasty diseases. If you spent all your time fucking guys who want you sexually, you'd never have time for anything else. 
4. YES!
5. NO!

OP, being submissive doesn't mean that your brain fell out your ear. Use it.



kiwisub12 -> RE: am i a bad sub? (4/1/2010 5:35:26 PM)

Are you ignorant? - Yes

Will you stay ignorant? - No

Hanging around this site will give you a lot of good information - and probably even more bad - but as a sensible woman, you will be able to tell them apart. And if you aren't sure, read the posts and form your opinion of the postees, and ask the ones you respect what their opinion is.

Just remember - if it feels wrong, it probably is. [:)]



sweetboundesire -> RE: am i a bad sub? (4/1/2010 5:54:55 PM)

1. if the Dom violates a hard limit (like not using a condom) is this a good enough reason for the sub to end the relationship? How serious is it for a Dom to violate a hard limit?

I believe hard limits are called hard limits for a reason. Trust matters more in a D/s relationship than in a vanilla and w/o it, it's pretty much a lost cause.

2. if the Dom is inconsistent or dishonest does the sub have the right to be upset about it?

of course, either one makes them unreliable. If they are unreliable, how can you trust him? How is there any respect? And if there is not respect, how can there be trust? As a sub, your putting yourself in a position of total trust, if you are willing to give it, you should be able to get it.

3. As a sub, is it my duty to submit to every Dom, or just to my owner? While i was His, my Master instructed me not to respond to emails from other Doms. Now that i'm single, do i need to respond and communicate with every Dom that wishes it, or do i have a choice?

no

4. Do i have the right to say to a Dom that i don't want a relationship right now?

how old are you?

5. Is it reasonable for a Dom who i've exchanged emails with but never met to expect me to send them explicit photos or to masturbate for them, when i'm not in a relationship with them?

no

6. Most of the time, when i communicate with Doms on this site they automatically assume that i am beginning a relationship with them, even if i specifically say that i don't want a relationship. Does that mean that i shouldn't expect to have a plutonic relationship with a Dom? Am i sending out the wrong signals by talking to them at all? I'm very new at this, and usually when i talk to Doms, it's because i need advice or feedback. Is it wrong of me to expect to be able to "just talk" to a Dom?

expect this place to be like a winter snowstorm, lots of flakes. Practice ignoring and deleting. It's really not hard.

7. i work really long hours (sometimes 80 hours a week). One of my hard limits is to have my work schedule respected. Specifically, not to be asked to spend hours texting every day, because i have very limited free time during the work week. Is it reasonable for me to ask this?
yes

8. How unusual is it not to have a safeword? Who usually chooses it, the Dom or the sub?
it's up to personal preference, comfort level of both parties

9. There were times with my Master when He would give me an order and i would obey it, but then He would act suprised that i obeyed Him, as if He didn't really expect it. This always upset me. i take orders very literally and was very careful to do exactly what i was told. It frustrated me that He would give me an order, but not mean it. Did i have any right to feel this way?
he sounds dumb to your needs. Did you explain your needs? I'm very literal. He doesn't sound very good. A lot of men say they are Doms, a lot of men like to think they are, doesn't mean they are, or if they are, that they are really any good at it.

10. i have a strong distaste for conflict, and when i'm upset i usually don't talk about it. My normal reaction (and i know it's a really bad one) is to just avoid the situation altogether; stop answering emails or phone calls, move, change my email address, get a different job. i know this is the wrong reaction, but what is the right one? i endure the situation until i can't anymore, and then i bolt. i feel like i have no right to argue or ask for better treatment even if i'm being treated really badly, but eventually there comes a point when i just can't take it anymore. What should i do in this situation?
you need a Dominant in your life who sees this and can help you start speaking up for yourself. This is something you recognize about yourself that you are not able to do alone. In my opinion, its something you need to face and confront. You need a place of trust to do this in. Running away never solves a thing. Everyone has those feelings and sometimes avoidance is the better path but not when it comes to a D/s relationship. You should be able to have your feelings/thoughts heard. If things don't feel right, then they probably aren't. Unfortunate but true. Go slow and be skeptical.

Sorry if i seem really ignorant. Like i said, i'm new to this, and i have to ask someone. Thanks for reading this, and if You feel like responding i would welcome any feedback. Thanks!
pam
Take your time. If your new, it may be good just to do research and maybe write down what is most important to you. We are all learning. We are all just trying to do the best we can. Just value yourself. When things start to feel like eating breakfast at a three legged table, something is probably wrong. Sometimes I ignore my gut, usually I regret it...trust your gut and best wishes



DWCskitten -> RE: am i a bad sub? (4/1/2010 8:15:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09
1. if the Dom violates a hard limit (like not using a condom) is this a good enough reason for the sub to end the relationship? How serious is it for a Dom to violate a hard limit?
A general rule for me would be, You break my hard limit and You've broken my trust. How good of a relationship can there be without trust? But, there are also cases where limits can be pushed with the sub's consent and knowledge. It's up to you whether you want to end the relationship or not.

2. if the Dom is inconsistent or dishonest does the sub have the right to be upset about it?
No one is consistent 100% of the time, but if it's a case of regularly being inconsistent, for example regularly dishonest, i would call that a deal-breaker. Again, how good a relationship can it be without trust?

3. As a sub, is it my duty to submit to every Dom, or just to my owner? While i was His, my Master instructed me not to respond to emails from other Doms. Now that i'm single, do i need to respond and communicate with every Dom that wishes it, or do i have a choice?
In my opinion, you are only required to submit to your Owner and anyone else He requires you to submit to. Anyone else, NO. Since you are unowned right now, you don't need to submit to Anyone. Until you are in a dynamic with Someone, you are just two people getting to know each other.....as people.

4. Do i have the right to say to a Dom that i don't want a relationship right now?
Absolutely.

5. Is it reasonable for a Dom who i've exchanged emails with but never met to expect me to send them explicit photos or to masturbate for them, when i'm not in a relationship with them?
They can expect it and wish for it, but the block and delete buttons are your friends. Hell NO, you don't have to do that for Them. Would you do that for a vanilla man you met on the street that asked you for that? [:D]

6. Most of the time, when i communicate with Doms on this site they automatically assume that i am beginning a relationship with them, even if i specifically say that i don't want a relationship. Does that mean that i shouldn't expect to have a platonic relationship with a Dom? Am i sending out the wrong signals by talking to them at all? I'm very new at this, and usually when i talk to Doms, it's because i need advice or feedback. Is it wrong of me to expect to be able to "just talk" to a Dom?
i have platonic relationships with some Dom/mes and my Owner knows that and approves. There's nothing wrong with that. Your responsibility is to just let Them know that's all you want right now, and let Them know right up front, so there are no misunderstandings.

7. i work really long hours (sometimes 80 hours a week). One of my hard limits is to have my work schedule respected. Specifically, not to be asked to spend hours texting every day, because i have very limited free time during the work week. Is it reasonable for me to ask this?
i would say that's reasonable. If They are really interested in you, as a person as well as a submissive, They would be concerned that you don't get too over-stressed and that you don't lose your job because of too many interruptions.

8. How unusual is it not to have a safeword? Who usually chooses it, the Dom or the sub?
Some relationships don't have a safeword, some do. i think if either person wants one, it should be used. Some Dom/mes pick the safeword as a matter of greater control, but i think the sub should choose it, since she or he is the one that needs to remember it in times of stress, etc.

9. There were times with my Master when He would give me an order and i would obey it, but then He would act suprised that i obeyed Him, as if He didn't really expect it. This always upset me. i take orders very literally and was very careful to do exactly what i was told. It frustrated me that He would give me an order, but not mean it. Did i have any right to feel this way?
You have the right to feel any way you choose. Maybe He was not used to having an obedient sub. [;)]

10. i have a strong distaste for conflict, and when i'm upset i usually don't talk about it. My normal reaction (and i know it's a really bad one) is to just avoid the situation altogether; stop answering emails or phone calls, move, change my email address, get a different job. i know this is the wrong reaction, but what is the right one? i endure the situation until i can't anymore, and then i bolt. i feel like i have no right to argue or ask for better treatment even if i'm being treated really badly, but eventually there comes a point when i just can't take it anymore. What should i do in this situation?
i would talk to your Dom when you have One and try and set up regular talks, about things like where do we go from here, what is expected of me, how things are progresssing, etc.

Sorry if i seem really ignorant. Like i said, i'm new to this, and i have to ask someone. Thanks for reading this, and if You feel like responding i would welcome any feedback. Thanks!
pam
No problem. Another thing that could be helpful is to just cruise around the message boards/forums and check out what people are saying. A person can actually learn a lot that way. That's how i started out.

~kitten~






fadedshadow -> RE: am i a bad sub? (4/1/2010 11:19:00 PM)

1. if the Dom violates a hard limit (like not using a condom) is this a good enough reason for the sub to end the relationship? How serious is it for a Dom to violate a hard limit?

it's a hard limit for a reason, if you say something is a hard limit and the dom violates it, i'd say it's a viable reason to end the relationship. to me, violating a hard limit of someone is showing great disrespect and doesn't care at all


2. if the Dom is inconsistent or dishonest does the sub have the right to be upset about it?

definiately. if someone's dishonest whether they're a dom or not, then you have every right to be upset. i sure as hell wouldn't trust a dishonest person


3. As a sub, is it my duty to submit to every Dom, or just to my owner? While i was His, my Master instructed me not to respond to emails from other Doms. Now that i'm single, do i need to respond and communicate with every Dom that wishes it, or do i have a choice?

you shouldn't have to submit to every dom


4. Do i have the right to say to a Dom that i don't want a relationship right now?

of course


5. Is it reasonable for a Dom who i've exchanged emails with but never met to expect me to send them explicit photos or to masturbate for them, when i'm not in a relationship with them?

it isn't reasonable at all


6. Most of the time, when i communicate with Doms on this site they automatically assume that i am beginning a relationship with them, even if i specifically say that i don't want a relationship. Does that mean that i shouldn't expect to have a plutonic relationship with a Dom? Am i sending out the wrong signals by talking to them at all? I'm very new at this, and usually when i talk to Doms, it's because i need advice or feedback. Is it wrong of me to expect to be able to "just talk" to a Dom?

i don't think it's wrong to just talk with them. for me, i would have to establish a friendship and be able to trust in the person before i would submit to them


7. i work really long hours (sometimes 80 hours a week). One of my hard limits is to have my work schedule respected. Specifically, not to be asked to spend hours texting every day, because i have very limited free time during the work week. Is it reasonable for me to ask this?

it's very reasonable, if i worked that much when i have time off it's me time


8. How unusual is it not to have a safeword? Who usually chooses it, the Dom or the sub?

the safeword should be something discussed with and agreed on by both dom and sub so there's no confusion

9. There were times with my Master when He would give me an order and i would obey it, but then He would act suprised that i obeyed Him, as if He didn't really expect it. This always upset me. i take orders very literally and was very careful to do exactly what i was told. It frustrated me that He would give me an order, but not mean it. Did i have any right to feel this way?

i think so, if you're obedient he should respect that and not treat it as a joke.

10. i have a strong distaste for conflict, and when i'm upset i usually don't talk about it. My normal reaction (and i know it's a really bad one) is to just avoid the situation altogether; stop answering emails or phone calls, move, change my email address, get a different job. i know this is the wrong reaction, but what is the right one? i endure the situation until i can't anymore, and then i bolt. i feel like i have no right to argue or ask for better treatment even if i'm being treated really badly, but eventually there comes a point when i just can't take it anymore. What should i do in this situation?

avoiding the situation altogether, moving, changing your e-mail address, or getting a different job are unnecessary things i think. communication is a very good thing and if you confront the situation, not with hostility mind you, you can accomplish a lot and ease a bunch of stress by being reasonable and talking things out. i do know it's hard to voice your opinion but when i tell someone about what's bothering me, it has always helped me in the end.



BrokenSaint -> RE: am i a bad sub? (4/2/2010 12:30:14 AM)

1. Yes. Serious.

2. Depends on if they are actually being inconsistent, or there is just a fundamental misunderstanding.

Dishonesty, it also depends One would assume you're talking something serious, but I tend not to like assumptions all that much. Without knowing the specifics I'm giving it a cautious yes for both on this one.

3. Easy, depends. In the paradigm you're probably using, no, just your owner.

2nd part. No, you do not. You'll quickly burn yourself out like that. Though I: would suggest thoroughly reading your emails always if you're actually looking for someone, and sending a few.

4. Yes.

5. Depends. How long have you known each other? People I've noticed put far too little stock in people they know through the net. Granted, maybe I'm a bit of a 21st century digital boy, but I've never seen much of a difference. I just meet someone here in headspace rather than meatspace. Yes someone can be lying. They can also do that in real life.

I would say evaluate how much you trust them, and judge their request based on an evaluation of that.

6. Nope, just make that clear. I mean clear. Yes. Yes that's pretty much exactly what I mean. Some people are just oblivious to hints, spell it out.

7. Limits should be respected.

8. I've had both. But get a little imaginative. Like seriously. That color shit has to go. Though I'd recommend practicing it for a bit. Once I chose veritas. It was funny watching her get close to the edge, while she got this ultracute look of consternation/confusion because she couldn't remember the whole word. Ended up yelling "THAT V WORD!" Obviously I stopped, but it was adorable.

9. Sounds like he was a bit new. It's a common response I'd imagine.

10. Avoidant behavioral pattens, while sometimes leading to awesome adventures of reinforcing amazingness, are generally not healthy.







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