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The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 3:08:08 AM

housesub4you

Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
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On these boards several have complained that the new tax rates is going to send their company into the red, even Boeing has joined the crowd. But when they paid NO INCOME TAX in 2009 and got 132 million in tax payers money, me thinks they whine to much

"But Boeing’s complaint further rings hollow because the industry giant is among the largest U.S. companies that pay the least in corporate taxes. Conservatives complain about the high 35 percent U.S. corporate tax rate, but because of corporate welfare such as the prescription drug deduction, Boeing’s tax rate was just 3.2 percent averaged over the last 4 years and just 0.7 percent averaged from 2002 to 2007. And Boeing’s three-year effective tax rate from 2001-2003 was -18.8 percent.
But also, according to Boeing’s 2009 annual report, the company paid no federal income tax in 2009 and actually received $132 million back from the IRS. And in 2008, Boeing paid just $44 million in federal income taxes while netting $2.7 billion in earnings that year"

And according to Business Week,the top 50 companies paid between 0.04 % to a high of 13% tax rate, not even close to the 35% they complain about.

http://bwnt.businessweek.com/interactive_reports/corporate_taxes_2009/who_pays_the_least.asp

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/31/boeing-tax-break/

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/03/30/rx-subsidy/

Post #: 1

RE: The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 3:56:26 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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You just don't understand.

If we keep cutting the tax rate for businesses it will result in golden shower....oops....I mean trickle-down economics and soon all will be well.

(in reply to housesub4you)

Post #: 2

RE: The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 4:00:11 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

Doesnt corporation tax there work the same as here? ie that the company only pays corporation tax on its profits?

Corporation tax here is in bands, depending how much profit the company makes - it starts low and builds up. Starter rate is about 22% and then it rises to about 40% for a company turning in a large profit. This is more or less in line with personal income tax rates, where you pay low on your earnings up to the threshold and then the higher rate on the rest.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 3

RE: The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 4:26:50 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Doesnt corporation tax there work the same as here? ie that the company only pays corporation tax on its profits?

Corporation tax here is in bands, depending how much profit the company makes - it starts low and builds up. Starter rate is about 22% and then it rises to about 40% for a company turning in a large profit. This is more or less in line with personal income tax rates, where you pay low on your earnings up to the threshold and then the higher rate on the rest.

E

I'm not familiar with how it works there, but here the tax code is ridiculously complicated.

There are set tax rates but there are also numerous deductions that can be taken, and when you have a major corporation with its own accounting and legal departments they are going to take advantage of any tax break available.

Then you end up with what was stated in the links.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 4/1/2010 4:28:17 AM >

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 4

RE: The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 4:35:16 AM

housesub4you

Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
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No it does not work like your, they are allowed to write down their tax burden based on expenses that are allowed to be deducted. The more you make the less you pay

If you look at the prescription tax (which they all have been whing about) AT&T was saying that they have to write down a billion in cash because of the new tax laws. But what they do not tell you, is that for every single dollar they spent on medicaid prescription plan for their employees, they got back 100% of their money and since 2003 they have also received a 28 cents subsidy for every dollar they spent. So they got back 128% of what they spent all coming out of the tax payers pocket

Nor do they mention it does not take effect until 2014, and they have thiryy years to spread it out over, and it is not really cash they are losing, just the write off

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704100604575145981713658608.html

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 5

RE: The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 4:53:21 AM

cadenas

Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
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Yes, it's mostly the same here, at least in theory (with the exception of certain LLCs). The idea is that corporations are legally persons, so they should be taxed similar to people. I believe the corporate income tax rate is always the same here, and the same as the highest personal income tax rate. But because there are so many tax shelters available, in practice few corporations ever pay much (or any) income tax.

I'm of two minds on whether this makes sense. One of the criticisms is that this approach leads to double taxation. Let's say company A has 2500 shareholders and makes a million dollars in profits. Let's also say that the income tax rate (both corporate and personal) is 20% (in reality, the rate is probably lower). In this situation, company A would pay $200k in taxes, and distribute $800k to shareholders - each shareholder would get $320. The shareholders would AGAIN pay 20% in taxes, and end up with $256.

If this was instead a partnership (which is not a corporation, and does not pay income taxes), or a disregarded LLC, then the company would distribute the full million dollars to shareholders. Shareholders would still pay their own income taxes, but still end up with $320.

This is the theoretical basis why dividends here are taxed at an extremely low rate.. Of course we have gone overboard, and also created so many tax shelters for corporations that we have a double "lack of taxation" for corporate profits.

Another concern in this context is international companies. Generally, companies are taxed in each country they operate, but only on local income. That allows companies to shelter income taxes by moving profits around internationally.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
Doesnt corporation tax there work the same as here? ie that the company only pays corporation tax on its profits?

Corporation tax here is in bands, depending how much profit the company makes - it starts low and builds up. Starter rate is about 22% and then it rises to about 40% for a company turning in a large profit. This is more or less in line with personal income tax rates, where you pay low on your earnings up to the threshold and then the higher rate on the rest.

E

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 6

RE: The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 5:42:17 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

That sounds similar to here then Cadenas (et al) - basically its not your income as a company (ie your sales) that is taxed, but your net income (ie profit) after all the cost of sales and overhead expenses are deducted. 35% is higher than here for a company making a small profit, but lower than here for a company making a large profit.

Yes we have the same double tax system - a right pain in the neck to lose 22% - 40% and then another 22% minimum (but probably 40% since the dividend will take you into the higher earner tax bracket). It means that of £100k profit for the company, £40k goes straight to government and of the remaining £60k another £24k goes to government so that effectively the government gets 64% of the profit. But there are ways around this - capital gains for instance is at a lower rate so you can stick it through that way, you can anticipate the profit and make sure its "invested" in the company, you can raise salaries or issue a bonus if your shareholders are employees and of course you can shop around if youre international like us, and declare the profit where its cheapest to do so. I've no problem with paying taxes, but 64% is simply ridiculous!

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to cadenas)

Post #: 7

RE: The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 6:48:17 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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Enron and Worldcom records were in building number 7.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 8

RE: The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 7:36:54 AM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
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Well first off we have to dispell the belief that corporations pay taxes at all.

ALL TAXES are paid by INDIVIDUALS in one way or another.

If the taxes are paid by the corporation they are thus not available to the stock holders and thus by percentages are paid (lost dividends or value) by the individuals that hold the stock. Or they are paid by the corporation and then passed on to the individual consumer customers in higher prices to make sure the end result profit/ dividend/ whatever the company benchmark for the year is gets met. Or as mentioned earilier the corporate profit is minimized, distributed in the form of dividends and then the taxes are paid on that dividend by the individual.

ie if the corporation has 100 stock holders, every dollar of taxes paid in the name of the corporation, is really $0.01 from each individual stock holder.

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 9

RE: The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 8:47:05 AM

cuckyman

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Joined: 3/25/2009
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Typical convaluted liberal jibberish....the US corp tax rate is now the highest in the world.....35%... Japan and Germany companies pay under 10%... by law , a corporation can withhold earnings only for captital improvements or anticipated captial needs..... the rest has to be disbursed to the shareholders in dividends.... and once the shareholder is paid, he is again taxed at the capital gains rate.... in short, double taxation..... business activity goes where it is not penalized, and that and the out of control lawsuit industry is why so many companies have moved offshore..... and WILL NOT come back onshore until a different climate of political reality is in place.... and that is why Obama and the brain dead democrats will never improve the jobs picture.... they don't even get how it works, much less have the knowledge to fix it..... In Obama's demopuke world, profits are EVIL.....and only the goverment can grow the ecomomy....and that is why they are about to get thrown out on their stupid ass's..... Ireland was broke until they lowered corporate and capital gains taxes and now they are booming compared to us...... duh!

< Message edited by cuckyman -- 4/1/2010 8:49:54 AM >

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 10

RE: The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 11:17:21 AM

servantforuse

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How many more companies will have to move their operations off shore before those on the 'left' start to get it.??

(in reply to cuckyman)

Post #: 11

RE: The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 11:23:33 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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Yeah, get what? Actually hold forth at length about why companies are (and have been for many many years) outsourcing or moving offshore. Yanno, actual facts and figures and citations.
We are all willing to learn what you know that we don't.

Not just mobular popular its because of taxes.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 12

RE: The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 11:56:33 AM

housesub4you

Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
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Yea, so the facts you care nothing about, Boeing's figures come from their own Stockholder meeting and filings, where they are saying they will pay ZERO in taxes for 2009 and in fact receive over 100 million in cash from the taxpayers pocket

But then the right could care less about facts and would still rather believe the talking points of how they are taxed sooo much..... Yet they never seem to complain about all the subsidies they receive...How can they preach FREE & OPEN MARKETS while receiving subsidies from the taxpayers??????

(in reply to cuckyman)

Post #: 13

RE: The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 1:31:32 PM

thornhappy

Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline

I've held stock in several corporations that paid no dividends.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman

Typical convaluted liberal jibberish....the US corp tax rate is now the highest in the world.....35%... Japan and Germany companies pay under 10%... by law , a corporation can withhold earnings only for captital improvements or anticipated captial needs..... the rest has to be disbursed to the shareholders in dividends.... and once the shareholder is paid, he is again taxed at the capital gains rate.... in short, double taxation..... business activity goes where it is not penalized, and that and the out of control lawsuit industry is why so many companies have moved offshore..... and WILL NOT come back onshore until a different climate of political reality is in place.... and that is why Obama and the brain dead democrats will never improve the jobs picture.... they don't even get how it works, much less have the knowledge to fix it..... In Obama's demopuke world, profits are EVIL.....and only the goverment can grow the ecomomy....and that is why they are about to get thrown out on their stupid ass's..... Ireland was broke until they lowered corporate and capital gains taxes and now they are booming compared to us...... duh!

(in reply to cuckyman)

Post #: 14

RE: The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 1:52:10 PM

subrob1967

Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
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Complaining? These corporations must BY LAW disclose these anticipated losses.

These companies aren't ranting about the health care plan, they are following the law, and Waxman and the Obama administration are retaliating because this law makes them look like the fucking idiots they are.

Reuters

quote:

March 26 (Reuters) - The U.S. healthcare overhaul, signed into law this week by President Barack Obama, will cost U.S. companies millions this year. Companies such as Deere & Co and Caterpillar Inc, which have large ranks of retirees, can no longer deduct from their taxes the subsidies paid by the federal government for retiree drug benefits. [IDN25229640] Large U.S. employers have started detailing the expected hit to their bottom line as a result of changes to the $2.5 trillion U.S. healthcare system. The tally so far:

(in reply to thornhappy)

Post #: 15

RE: The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 1:57:59 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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...can no longer deduct from their taxes the subsidies paid by the federal government for retiree drug benefits...

isn't that an excellent way to reduce corporate entitlements? a corporation is a person, you know.....

Ron

p.s. I don't get to write off the subsidies PAID BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT on MY TAXES, either. And I am a person.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to subrob1967)

Post #: 16

RE: The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 2:42:02 PM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman

Typical convaluted liberal jibberish....the US corp tax rate is now the highest in the world.....35%... Japan and Germany companies pay under 10%... by law , a corporation can withhold earnings only for captital improvements or anticipated captial needs..... the rest has to be disbursed to the shareholders in dividends.... and once the shareholder is paid, he is again taxed at the capital gains rate.... in short, double taxation..... business activity goes where it is not penalized, and that and the out of control lawsuit industry is why so many companies have moved offshore..... and WILL NOT come back onshore until a different climate of political reality is in place.... and that is why Obama and the brain dead democrats will never improve the jobs picture.... they don't even get how it works, much less have the knowledge to fix it..... In Obama's demopuke world, profits are EVIL.....and only the goverment can grow the ecomomy....and that is why they are about to get thrown out on their stupid ass's..... Ireland was broke until they lowered corporate and capital gains taxes and now they are booming compared to us...... duh!

What absolutely unmitigated...bullshit.

Imagine all of the fees we pay for say liquor, jewelery, tires, national parks and all other federal fees, customs, immigration whatever...ALL of it totals about 10-12% of total federal tax receipts.

Think about all of that high corporate tax rates so penalizing and now all of the way up to about 10-12% of t o t a l federal tax receipts.

That's right...the same. So you can have your stock corporations, you can have your dividends, I don't give a flying fuck about your double taxation and at immoraly discounted rates, you can have your costs and your inflation and all of damn tax issues. I am not supposed to give a shit...in a free market [sic]

Everybody engages in this great American dream knowing full well all of these factors that goes into a decision presumably made by that 'free market.'

Nobody should be coming back and complain about your damn taxes. You and every investor knows it going in...or should.

You don't want to pay any capital gains tax...then don't have any capital gains. You are wrong on the laws, you are wrong on your partisan tripe. I could write a short book on you.

(in reply to cuckyman)

Post #: 17

RE: The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 2:46:28 PM

housesub4you

Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline

Actually your wrong, the money they are talking about is not cash they will lose, it is the subsidizes the have received since 2003

For example, take John Deere or AT&T or Cat, for every dollar they pay into the drug plan they get back every dollar in a tax deduction, plus they receive 28 cents more for every dollar they spent, so they are getting 128% of their expenses back

The new law takes away the extra 28 cents the US taxpayer is giving them, and they do not stop receiving that until 2013, then they get to write the cash down off over a thiry year period.

The charges, however, are “noncash,” meaning companies don’t have to write a check for a billion dollars. As the WSJ explains, “since companies had created an asset based on the expectation they would be getting these deductions over the lives of their current and future retirees, they say they need to take a charge reflecting the fall in the asset’s value.” The money at stake for each company is not all that much in annual terms, and the change doesn’t kick in until 2013.

So when you do your taxes, do you get to take 100% deduction for meds? and then receive an extra 28 cents for every dollar you are already getting back?

(in reply to subrob1967)

Post #: 18

RE: The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 2:57:11 PM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

How many more companies will have to move their operations off shore before those on the 'left' start to get it.??

Some of you kinkroids just don't get it. Let them move offshore we'll make up that dime with pennies on cig and gas. What the fuck do I care where they are...they don't. They exist to make money...period.

While corps. are in the US they don't serve society at all. The Fortune 500 has not created one net new job in the US in 50 years. They have always shifted capital and jobs and their demand offshore for about as long.

Corporations do not invest in new business to compete, they buy up their competition. They use their tax cuts ($300 billion under Bush and the repubs) and their profits for buying their own stock back.

People, the small businessman just like labor are getting fucked as most private small business income say under that popular sum of $250,000 is almost always schedule C income and taxed as high as 35% BEFORE Obama just cut taxes for those businesses.

Bitch on kinkroids, some here still don't have a clue.

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 19

RE: The Corp tax rate is to HIGH...get real - 4/1/2010 3:27:31 PM

SirAldwyn

Posts: 44
Joined: 10/15/2009
Status: offline

Hey look what I found....Guess what party this is from...?????

We are proud of and shall continue our far-reaching and sound advances in matters of basic human needs--expansion of social security--broadened coverage in unemployment insurance --improved housing--and better health protection for all our people.

We favor a comprehensive study of the effect upon wildlife of the drainage of our wetlands. We recognize the need for maintaining isolated wilderness areas.

A continuously vigorous enforcement of anti-trust laws Legislation to enable closer Federal scrutiny of mergers which have a significant or potential monopolistic connotations; Procedural changes in the antitrust laws to facilitate their enforcement.
Stimulate improved job safety of our workers, through assistance to the States, employees and employers; Continue and further perfect its programs of assistance to the millions of workers with special employment problems, such as older workers, handicapped workers, members of minority groups, and migratory workers; Strengthen and improve the Federal-State Employment Service and improve the effectiveness of the unemployment insurance system;...

Assure equal pay for equal work regardless of Sex; Clarify and strengthen the eight-hour laws for the benefit of workers who are subject to federal wage standards on Federal and Federally-assisted construction, and maintain and continue the vigorous administration of the Federal prevailing minimum wage law for public supply contracts; Extend the protection of the Federal minimum wage laws to as many more workers as is possible and practicable;

Continue to fight for the elimination of discrimination in employment because of race, creed, color, national origin, ancestry or sex; Provide assistance to improve the economic conditions of areas faced with persistent and substantial unemployment; Revise and improve the Taft-Hartley Act so as to protect more effectively the rights of labor unions, management, the individual worker, and the public.

That's right..it's the rights!!!! The GOP Platform from 1956...Man have they changed!!!!

< Message edited by SirAldwyn -- 4/1/2010 3:28:51 PM >

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Post #: 20

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