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RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 3:34:27 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Yeah, right. And he even gave them swimming pools. Don't you have  some  thorazine to be taking?



Nah, I know you are low but thqanks anyway.  Besides you know I dont do drugs.



Maybe you should start.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 3:34:29 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

The fact is, the masses don't think or see much beyond their own personal spheres.



Yes, well thankfully we  have wise, informed souls like you to educate us in the error of our ways.




I see I touched a nerve...

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 3:36:32 PM   
bikenfish


Posts: 1
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline 		Clearly "needtouseyou" is your standard simple minded Western elitist idiot that has been spoon-fed the first amendment and waves it around for attention in spite of the fact he clearly knows not of what he speaks. Your sense of entitlement to the first ammendment is appauling and it is clear that you know nothing of war or the fact that the military (yes, the people you condemn and oh, by the way, you were not there) are the very people who have delivered to you your "right" to freedom of speech. I will say with confidence that you have not stood on an Iraqi street and watched a car that may or may not be laden with HE (that's Hight Explosive since I'm sure you don't know that either unless you googled it), speed toward your position in spite of your posted signage, flags waving in the air, and even a flare fired in front of it.  You have no idea (I expect) what it is like to have to pull the trigger on what is clearly a teenager (even though you have two at home) because he is shooting directly at you and your team with his AK-47.  I am fairly confident that you likely have never walked the streets of a neighborhood knowing that it is just a matter of time until you will be fired upon.  I can respect to a degree those who chose to stand and fight me (they lost by the way as I am here to wite about it) for what they believed in.  You sir are a fraud.  If you belive you are entitled to sit safe in the US and badmouth those who would go forth and fight to preserve your first ammendment rights...you're right.  But don't you ever, ever mistake yourself for someone better than they.  You haven't the courage to fight for what you supposedly believe in and so thouroughly use.  While I have directly called needtouseyou "a spade" others of you here are floating in the same vessel, don't think folks don't notice.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 3:36:49 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

The fact is, the masses don't think or see much beyond their own personal spheres.



Yes, well thankfully we  have wise, informed souls like you to educate us in the error of our ways.




I see I touched a nerve...



Well yeah, you just made one of the most classic and least easily debatable arguments against the merits of democracy...you expect anything less?

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 3:37:49 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

what possible reason would reuters journalists need to be concerned about american helos flying around?

Well it might be a clue that they are in a combat operations environment... and that the guys in the helos are going to have no idea who the fuck they are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

To bad they forgot that america breeds cold blodded murderers.

We seem to breed a fair number of nut jobs, too.

K.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 3:38:39 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Well yeah, you just made one of the most classic and least easily debatable arguments against the merits of democracy...you expect anything less?


So tell me... do you think the masses think beyond their personal spheres?

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 3:39:00 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

The fact is, the masses don't think or see much beyond their own personal spheres.



Yes, well thankfully we  have wise, informed souls like you to educate us in the error of our ways.




I see I touched a nerve...



Yeah, it was my anti-self righteousness nerve which gets touched most times I see you post.

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 3:45:39 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

Well yeah, you just made one of the most classic and least easily debatable arguments against the merits of democracy...you expect anything less?


So tell me... do you think the masses think beyond their personal spheres?



Rarely as individuals and even more rarely when compiled into "the masses," but the implications of this is something I can only speculate on. So I will speculate.

It's why politicians make pandering promises that they know they have no power to deliver - they need Joe Smith's vote and if Joe Smith believes in better schools, lower taxes, and a victory in Iraq without bloodshed, well, the damn fool still gets a vote. So he gets lied to and he gets irate and fortunately is seething rage is impotent.

It's also why you have this thread - this thread started by a civilian, convinced he's better qualified to make wartime decisions than people who have been trained to.

The masses might be ill informed and easily persuaded, which is why a sense of noblesse oblige from the government is far more important than what any average citizen who feels a layman's opinion is just as valid as a specialist might think.

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 3:48:49 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

what possible reason would reuters journalists need to be concerned about american helos flying around?

Well it might be a clue that they are in a combat operations environment... and that the guys in the helos are going to have no idea who the fuck they are.



Not to mention the fact that at least some of the people they were associating with were carrying weapons. At least one person in the first group had what appeared to be an AK or similar military-style rifle. If you're a journalist covering an insurgent group, you have to expect that some of the people you're covering may draw the attention of American troops - hell, that's what you're there to cover in the first place, combat between the Army and the insurgents.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 3:49:15 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Just, you know, theoretically speaking, what would you have done in that situation? 6 men with AK-47's, shots fired, one man with a RPG...what would the proper course of action have been?


Theoretically speaking you have a point, right up until they shot the wounded and the rescuers. Don`t tell me you find that acceptable.

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 3:51:19 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bikenfish

Clearly "needtouseyou" is your standard simple minded Western elitist idiot that has been spoon-fed the first amendment and waves it around for attention in spite of the fact he clearly knows not of what he speaks. Your sense of entitlement to the first ammendment is appauling and it is clear that you know nothing of war or the fact that the military (yes, the people you condemn and oh, by the way, you were not there) are the very people who have delivered to you your "right" to freedom of speech. I will say with confidence that you have not stood on an Iraqi street and watched a car that may or may not be laden with HE (that's Hight Explosive since I'm sure you don't know that either unless you googled it), speed toward your position in spite of your posted signage, flags waving in the air, and even a flare fired in front of it.  You have no idea (I expect) what it is like to have to pull the trigger on what is clearly a teenager (even though you have two at home) because he is shooting directly at you and your team with his AK-47.  I am fairly confident that you likely have never walked the streets of a neighborhood knowing that it is just a matter of time until you will be fired upon.  I can respect to a degree those who chose to stand and fight me (they lost by the way as I am here to wite about it) for what they believed in.  You sir are a fraud.  If you belive you are entitled to sit safe in the US and badmouth those who would go forth and fight to preserve your first ammendment rights...you're right.  But don't you ever, ever mistake yourself for someone better than they.  You haven't the courage to fight for what you supposedly believe in and so thouroughly use.  While I have directly called needtouseyou "a spade" others of you here are floating in the same vessel, don't think folks don't notice.


Ha.... killing Iraqis protects my first amendment right?

Well, that is reaching a bit don't you think.

As far as it goes, I don't think Iraq is a valid war to begin, you know the whole started based on lies shit sorta proves the case and all.


Hey, if another WWII comes I'll sign up. My grandfathers, fought in the last valid war this country entered, I have uncles that fought in Vietnam (Oh, they tend to believe that was a bullshit war to). Anyway, as far as you fighting for fucking anything for me, you aren't. If you think you are well, you are retarded.

So, shove it up your ass, I don't give one fuck about you. Iraq has nothing to do with US freedom. Never has, and never will be. It's a huge waste of life, and resources.

Or explain what is so great about your cause over there, and how is it protecting my first amendment rights. LOL.

Are you protecting me from those Iraqi terrorists? You know the ones that didn't really exist before we invaded. OR the terrorists that carried out 9-11 who were from for the most part Saudi Arabia. Or from Bin Laden who was in Afghanistan, and now probably in pakistan.

Exactly what the fuck are you protecting me from, sir.

(in reply to bikenfish)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 3:51:43 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Yeah, it was my anti-self righteousness nerve which gets touched most times I see you post.


Yes, well... I'm quite aware that logic and emotion often clash. And I certainly don't expect you to like most of what I post.

Would you care to argue the logic that most people don't see beyond their personal spheres, or are you done here?

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 3:55:18 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Just, you know, theoretically speaking, what would you have done in that situation? 6 men with AK-47's, shots fired, one man with a RPG...what would the proper course of action have been?


Theoretically speaking you have a point, right up until they shot the wounded and the rescuers. Don`t tell me you find that acceptable.


I honestly can't say what is going through their minds, the van wasn't marked as a medic van, it was just a van with people trying to pick up what they thought was an insurgent.

The only thing that stuck out was when he said "come on just pick up a weapon" which showed he wanted to kill him, but at the same time shows that he wouldn't fire until he had cause to.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 3:56:23 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

Well yeah, you just made one of the most classic and least easily debatable arguments against the merits of democracy...you expect anything less?


So tell me... do you think the masses think beyond their personal spheres?



Only if you tell us if you think beyond yours.

The evidence would seem to indicate otherwise.

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 3:56:27 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Just, you know, theoretically speaking, what would you have done in that situation? 6 men with AK-47's, shots fired, one man with a RPG...what would the proper course of action have been?


Theoretically speaking you have a point, right up until they shot the wounded and the rescuers. Don`t tell me you find that acceptable.


I find it disturbing, but under the circumstances understandable. They clearly held their fire while the wounded man tried to crawl to safety, and were giving directions to the ground team racing toward his location. It seems clear that the rules of engagement prohibited firing on an unarmed wounded man, and they made several references to this in the video - "No weapon nearby... he doesn't have a weapon... if he picks up a weapon..." At the time they did finally fire, from their point of view they were shooting at insurgents who were trying to rescue another insurgent so he could live to fight another day. Obviously they were mistaken in what they were seeing, but from their perspective, it appears that was an appropriate response under the ROE of that time.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 4:02:15 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

~ FR ~

The only thing I can figure out here is that there must be a couple of people posting to this thread who think the inserted captions, and the little arrows and labels over the indeterminate blobs in the van, were visible to the troops involved in the engagement.

K.


I have videos that are pristine crystal clear where you can see the wtc getting blown all to hell but by the time you convert them to boo tube they are so fuzzy you can barely see any of it. (well except for chandlers) 

That and if you watch they can zoom right in on them.  If you ever seen those cameras you would be shocked at how good they are.

Its a common error to think that what we see on these upload sites are the actual quality seen by the gunner.

Those guys were just strolling around, hardly anyone in combative operations.

Now had the helo taken fire at least they would have had an excuse.

Murder plain and simple.  Especially with those 2 little kids like they cant tell those were small bodies even as blurry as that was.

Murder plain and simple.  Then the SOP of cover up.


Oh goddamnit...where are those FEMA death camps already?

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 4:04:05 PM   
takemeforyourown


Posts: 430
Joined: 2/24/2007
Status: offline 		My soldier husband, and his friends who are still living, thank you for your support.


Edited to say that I meant to reply to the OP. sorry.

< Message edited by takemeforyourown -- 4/5/2010 4:05:27 PM >

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 4:11:16 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Just, you know, theoretically speaking, what would you have done in that situation? 6 men with AK-47's, shots fired, one man with a RPG...what would the proper course of action have been?


Theoretically speaking you have a point, right up until they shot the wounded and the rescuers. Don`t tell me you find that acceptable.


I honestly can't say what is going through their minds, the van wasn't marked as a medic van, it was just a van with people trying to pick up what they thought was an insurgent.

The only thing that stuck out was when he said "come on just pick up a weapon" which showed he wanted to kill him, but at the same time shows that he wouldn't fire until he had cause to.


So, theoretically speaking, at what point did the wounded or the rescuers, red cross or not, pick up a weapon ?

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 4:19:24 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		Polite, it depends on what the rules of engagement were. It seems clear the ROE prohibited firing on an unarmed wounded man, and they complied with this, even though they obviously wanted to finish him off. I'm inferring that the ROE did authorize them to shoot a wounded insurgent to prevent him from escaping, and as hard is it may be to watch, I can understand the reasoning for this. You don't want him to get fixed up so that you have to kill him again next month. Neither of us can know exactly what the ROE were, but if I'm guessing right, it looks as though they were followed.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/5/2010 4:20:01 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
So, theoretically speaking, at what point did the wounded or the rescuers, red cross or not, pick up a weapon ?


The quote about the weapon was when the situation was one wounded man on the ground.

The situation changed to an unmarked van full of people.

I'm not playing apologist for this, fact is, I want MY country to win this war, I do not want my country to lose this war, and I will leave it up to the people involved (aka NOT ME) to decide what is acceptable.

The military said this was acceptable. We can give our youtube opinions all we want, but the more we turn public opinion against soldiers fighting the war they're supposed to fight, the more dangerous it's going to get for them if that public opinion turns their protocol into some stupid bullshit "don't fire until you've been shot at" like some people on this thread have been saying.

I don't have the stomach for war and I'd never enlist. But that doesn't mean that those whose job it is to fight should turn as weak stomached as I am.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 60
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