Is there a time limit imposed on verbal consent?

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Is there a time limit imposed on verbal consent? - 4/3/2006 8:42:32 AM

Angeni

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Joined: 3/11/2006
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Greetings :)
I feel kind of silly asking this, but it is something that my mind will not let go of. The issue of consent I brought up in another thread, but what I would really like to know is this. In regards to 'giving' verbal consent for something ( no matter what it may be ), is there a time limit imposed? Sort of like a statute of limitations? To further explain what I mean, let me use this example: You meet someone, and agree between the two of you that there may be others in the relationship. Time goes on ( it could be months, it could be years ), and this possibility does not become a reality. You eventually 'forget' that it was even discussed to begin with. Then, one day, your partner brings up the fact that they have met that one that they want to have a relationship with. Does the fact that so much time elapsed between when you actually gave consent to when it happened matter? Or do you feel that consent should have been given again?

As I said, it really is a kind of silly and idiotic thing to have roaming through the mind, but I am curious as to how others might look at this.

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RE: Is there a time limit imposed on verbal consent? - 4/3/2006 8:49:06 AM

Cloudz

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Sounds like you need to revist the issue, soon.

_____________________________

Enjoy the Journey,
~Cloudz

"Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain."

(in reply to Angeni)

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RE: Is there a time limit imposed on verbal consent? - 4/3/2006 8:50:05 AM

saltygoodness27

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Joined: 12/22/2005
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I don't know that that's a matter of consent so much as respect. If a lot of time has passed between the initial discussion and the finding of a new partner, I think it would be a good sign of respect to bring it up again, especially if the primary was hestitant about the situation in the first place. And it might not be the worst idea to bring it up again before starting anything with person #3. But in the end, I guess it depends on how the relationship works.
But in terms of stuff that I've been involved with, if my husband and I discuss something we agree to it (say a rape fantasy), and lots of time passes between the discussion and when it can become a reality, my husband has checked in with me to make sure this is still something that I want.

(in reply to Angeni)

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RE: Is there a time limit imposed on verbal consent? - 4/3/2006 8:54:23 AM

thetammyjo

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Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Angeni

Greetings :)
I feel kind of silly asking this, but it is something that my mind will not let go of. The issue of consent I brought up in another thread, but what I would really like to know is this. In regards to 'giving' verbal consent for something ( no matter what it may be ), is there a time limit imposed? Sort of like a statute of limitations? To further explain what I mean, let me use this example: You meet someone, and agree between the two of you that there may be others in the relationship. Time goes on ( it could be months, it could be years ), and this possibility does not become a reality. You eventually 'forget' that it was even discussed to begin with. Then, one day, your partner brings up the fact that they have met that one that they want to have a relationship with. Does the fact that so much time elapsed between when you actually gave consent to when it happened matter? Or do you feel that consent should have been given again?

As I said, it really is a kind of silly and idiotic thing to have roaming through the mind, but I am curious as to how others might look at this.

I'd say if you want a time limit, put it in writing.

Anything that is just verbal is liable to human memory which can be unreliable and selective. It should be discussed often and check ins can help a lot.

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Angeni)

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RE: Is there a time limit imposed on verbal consent? - 4/3/2006 9:10:30 AM

Angeni

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Greetings Cloudz :) I was not actually asking because of this happening, I was just curious. I do agree with what Saltygoodness27 said in that I would also view it more as a matter of respect in having the issue brought up again after so much time had elapsed. It was just something that popped in my mind that I could not let go of.
Miss TammyJo, I understand that there are some who do, re-negotiate? their contracts. However, if one is not working with a written contract, how would you go about setting such a limit?
Now my curiosity really has gotten the better of me :)

(in reply to Cloudz)

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RE: Is there a time limit imposed on verbal consent? - 4/3/2006 9:20:58 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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You say "Hey I want this to be a limit."

The other person says "Sure."

OK that's a very simplified conversation- but essentially that's what happens.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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(in reply to Angeni)

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RE: Is there a time limit imposed on verbal consent? - 4/3/2006 9:27:03 AM

RubberWitch

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IMNSHO

There is a time limit to consent. its when one party is unhappy with it, even if you've got a pretty contract on velum, signed in triplicate and witnessed by the archbishop.

So, don't set limits if you don't know that the other person will tell you if and when things change.

J

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

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RE: Is there a time limit imposed on verbal consent? - 4/3/2006 9:27:19 AM

meatcleaver

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Since everybody changes over time, it is a little unreasonable to suddenly enact an agreement from ten years ago that had been never called into play. However, if the dom insists on his rights because of the agreement, the sub can simply walk away. It's a free country. Bringing someone else into the equation is that heavy.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

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RE: Is there a time limit imposed on verbal consent? - 4/3/2006 9:45:19 AM

NickInSLC

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If you and your partner agreed to a stipulation, you should consider that as the agreement until something is decided otherwise.

In the case of something major like polyamory, you may need to sit down together and re-evaluate your relationship. At one point, you were both fine with being nonexclusive, but as we all know, relationship dynamics change over time.

When you do sit and talk about it, just make sure to remember that it's not about who's right and who's wrong. Yeah, once upon a time, you were both fine with including others, but the dynamic has changed since then and now you need to figure out if you're still both cool with it and if not, what's going to happen.

(in reply to Angeni)

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RE: Is there a time limit imposed on verbal consent? - 4/3/2006 9:46:19 AM

thetammyjo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Angeni

Greetings Cloudz :) I was not actually asking because of this happening, I was just curious. I do agree with what Saltygoodness27 said in that I would also view it more as a matter of respect in having the issue brought up again after so much time had elapsed. It was just something that popped in my mind that I could not let go of.
Miss TammyJo, I understand that there are some who do, re-negotiate? their contracts. However, if one is not working with a written contract, how would you go about setting such a limit?
Now my curiosity really has gotten the better of me :)

I actually don't think that you can set a very long time limit if its just going to be a verbal agreement -- maybe an evening or a play party?

I supposed you could have witnesses but then why not write it out? (Yes, I agree that shorter contracts renewed and reviewed are a good thing but not all of us have these.)

Our memories are not the most reliable things plus somethings people are not as honest or as stable as we believe. We might "forget" because other stuff is happening. We might "forget" because we've just decided on our own to change the agreement.

Instead I recommend constantly talking things out. Tom (husband) and I are not monogamous and we have rules -- we purposely left out vows of monogamy when we got married. We constantly tell each other when we find another potential and we even talk about it when poly or monogamy comes up in the world around us. We work at reassuring the other that we are valuable and that yes, our ability to explore other people and relationships is valuable too.

I think just discussing then relying on memory is a set-up for problems. I try to avoid problems if I can.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 4/3/2006 9:47:33 AM >

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Angeni)

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RE: Is there a time limit imposed on verbal consent? - 4/3/2006 9:48:06 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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I'm just wondering how someone "forgets" that they agreed to be monogamous?

I can understand if you have a fuzzier line- you can play but not fuck/you can fuck but not live in/you can play but only with the other person, etc...but if the relationship has been solidly monogamous for quite awhile, how does that suddenly get "forgotten"?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Angeni)

Post #: 11

RE: Is there a time limit imposed on verbal consent? - 4/3/2006 9:59:02 AM

wild1cfl

Posts: 567
Joined: 4/19/2004
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IMHO
LImits are one thing that we are constantly changing adn talking about. We do have set limits for ourselves as Dominants such as no smoking around us, and no scat, but many limits that we have set with a submissive are often discussed and sometimes changed as they expereince more in their lives. Yes they still may have hard limits that they say will never change, but with these limits we still discuss them often so that everyone is on the same page with it. I would have continued to reiterate my consent or nonconsent about the inclusion of other people in your relationship if that is what this is about rather than continued to think that everthing was okay over a long period of time and then be surprised.
Many years ago when my wife and I were first married we wanted to have children, so we decided not to include others in our relationship where it would include sexual acts with their submission. We talked about this limit for us and agreed that we would both abide by it until such a time as we decided it was okay to set it aside. We had 3 wonderful children and we then talked about the limit again and decided it was time to set it aside. My whole point here is about communication with each other on a constant basis, it is what we ask of our slaves or submissives that we deal with and it is what we ask of each other in our relationship as a married couple for almost 20 years.

Wild

(in reply to Angeni)

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RE: Is there a time limit imposed on verbal consent? - 4/3/2006 10:28:53 AM

KittenWithaTwist

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My advice here is pretty simple. If you have a problem, say something. Screw the fact that you may or may not have talked about it at some point. If you're uncomfortable, say so.

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RE: Is there a time limit imposed on verbal consent? - 4/3/2006 2:15:49 PM

MsIncognito

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Joined: 5/24/2005
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I think verbal consent is valid until it is withdrawn. In the example you gave it's not your partner's fault you "forgot" that you consented to that. When your partner comes home and says "I've met someone I want to have a relationship with" then I guess that's your opportunity to either affirm or withdraw your consent, isn't it?

(in reply to Angeni)

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RE: Is there a time limit imposed on verbal consent? - 4/3/2006 2:25:43 PM

ownedgirlie

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If i have agreed to something then i have agreed to it. If i start feeling differently about it, then i need to share my new sentiments, whether the situation is happening or not. He can't read my mind. He is living his life on the basis that consent was given (although actually this is not the case for me, since my slavery does not include whether or not i agree with something). If that has changed, then he ought to know about it.

(in reply to Angeni)

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RE: Is there a time limit imposed on verbal consent? - 4/3/2006 2:30:31 PM

slavejali

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Sometimes we agree to things and over the course of time, those agreements get changed without a single word spoken, just by the "living" of the relationship.

I think basically, when there is going to be any potential change to the relationship, and bringing a 3rd person in is a HUGE change, in the scenario you mentioned, that Dom should have spoken with his submissive "before" he went out looking.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

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(in reply to ownedgirlie)

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RE: Is there a time limit imposed on verbal consent? - 4/3/2006 4:30:22 PM

BrianSenior

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Sounds about right to Me ~BK~

(in reply to NickInSLC)

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RE: Is there a time limit imposed on verbal consent? - 4/3/2006 7:04:40 PM

starymists

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Just to restate some things from above in my own way...in the lifestyle, we are constantly evolving. We experience new things, we learn new aspects of ourselves, we develop new histories. During the course of that evolution, wants and needs may change as limits may change. If things have changed, I believe that the submissive has the right to bring the change to the table. Why is bringing another in suddenly an issue? Is it a matter of feeling insecure, fearing that something is lacking in the current relationship? Is it a matter of not getting enough time and attention thus not wanting to share what is present with another? Is it a fear of change? A fear of loosing what you have built? Bottom line, between the time of consent and the time of enactment of that agreement, something has changed. The issue, in my mind, is not really the bringing in of another, but is a result of the internal changes that have created a change in the way one thinks about bringing in a third.

Figuring out what exactly has changed, bringing it to the table for discussion *in a respectful way of course* and trying to come to resolution is a very important thing if you want the relationship to work. If the differences can't be worked out, then both need to decide if this relationship will continue to work for each one of them or if the relationship needs to be ended. My personal experience is when the real issue is brought out into the open, discussed and worked on, the situation is resolveable. If on the other hand, if you look at the symptom, *the bringing in of the third* without taking the time to first identify why thinking has changed, it can be fairly difficult to come to a solution that will work for both in the relationship.

(in reply to BrianSenior)

Post #: 18

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