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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/8/2010 2:59:53 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

COLUMBUS, Ohio — An Ohio man accused of conspiring with a militia group to kill police officers and overthrow the government said in a statement Thursday night that he is "not an extremist, racist or a cop killer."

Kristopher Sickles of Sandusky renounced his role as a militia member in the statement released by his brother, Alec Romick of nearby Huron, who said he received it from Sickles during a telephone call.

"My intentions were good and I am simply guilty by association and personally had no intentions of harming any person, member of law enforcement or the United States government," Sickles, 27, said in the statement.


http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/ohio-news/ohioan-who-was-arrested-in-fbi-raid-denies-charges-631457.html

"Guilty by association "of what if he indeed believes these charges are false? You can dig up all the qotes you wish, these speak volumes for the man and the intentions of the militia.



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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/8/2010 3:08:05 PM   
jlf1961


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Tazzy, what does all that about the guy saying he is not a racist etc. have to do with the faked video of ACORN?

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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/8/2010 3:15:38 PM   
tazzygirl


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It was in direct response to this post.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3152415

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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/8/2010 4:27:25 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The same christian militia group that admitted to targeting police officers?


I've not really kept up with that news story, so this isn't a challenge, but a request for information.

Do you have a link where "they" admitted to targeting police officers?

Firm



http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/ohio-news/ohioan-who-was-arrested-in-fbi-raid-denies-charges-631457.html

Im going by what this article discussed. Seems one of their own admits to it wile denying his part in the plot.



tazzy,

Actually, my reading shows no such admission.

"I would never blindly follow or assist a group who obviously had a different agenda than my own," he said.

"He had no clue these people were doing anything like this, he had no clue," Romick said.
Based on these comments, and the rest of the article, it seems to me that he saying that he would have never been part of the group if he had had the slightest inkling that any such thing was going on.   Based on that, I don't see that he is "admitting" that the other members were actually planning anything.  He's claiming ignorance, and backing it up by saying that if he had any knowledge, he wouldn't have been part of the group at all.

Interestingly, this bugs me as well:

Sickles' wife, Kelly, said Thursday that her husband was with her on a number of the dates the government says her husband was involved with the militia group, including the day their son was born, when she says Sickles was in the hospital with her.
and


The FBI said it broke up the plot with the help of an undercover agent and informants.


Based on activities of some Federal law agencies during the last Democratic administration, and based on things such as prosecutorial misconduct such as revealed in the Duke fake rape case, I'm not prepared to say where the truth is in this entire incident.

In other words, until we have more information, we could just as easily make the assumption that the members where Nifonged.

Firm


Sorry I'm a bit late to this thread....and a bit slow on responding to this post...but here goes...
Firm,might I ask if you applied the samr reticence in deducing the wrongs and rights of a given situation when it came to the Acorn scandal?
And that's not snark...just a question because I'm curious.

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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/8/2010 4:50:46 PM   
servantforuse


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Brain didn't answer my question, but I will answer his. Rush Limbaugh is a very popular conservative radio talk show host. His show is broadcast on 750 + stations. He recently signed a new 8 year 400 million dollar contract.

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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/8/2010 4:55:26 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Brain didn't answer my question, but I will answer his. Rush Limbaugh is a very popular conservative radio talk show host. His show is broadcast on 750 + stations. He recently signed a new 8 year 400 million dollar contract.
You forgot " a fat,balding blowhard"....just trying to help.

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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/8/2010 5:25:24 PM   
sirbates


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Isn't he supposed to be moving to Costa Rica or someplace out of the US?

< Message edited by sirbates -- 4/8/2010 5:26:03 PM >

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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/8/2010 5:27:35 PM   
servantforuse


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Rush could buy Costa Rica. He likes palm beach..

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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/8/2010 5:39:34 PM   
slvemike4u


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What does that have to do with him promising to move there?

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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/8/2010 5:45:17 PM   
servantforuse


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Alec Baldwin said he was moving to France 9 years ago. He never moved either..

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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/8/2010 5:49:45 PM   
slvemike4u


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So you have no problem equating one fat blow hard with another fat(well at least Alec has shed his wieght...lol)bl....actor.Fair enough....News Flash,Servant declares Rush is as irrelavant as Baldwin.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/8/2010 5:59:28 PM   
servantforuse


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I listen to Rush nearly every day. He never promised to move there. He did say something to the effect that if those on the left raised enough money to send him there he would move. At last count they came up with $1400.00. Not much of an effort if you ask me. Rush said himself that $1400 wouldn't be enough to buy cocktails on his private jet.

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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/8/2010 6:06:58 PM   
sirbates


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alec Baldwin is an actor and his job is pretending. Rush Limbaugh's job is to promote a certain political view and has tremendous influence over the political views of millions of people who believe he is sincere and stands behind what he says. His words about leaving the US were intended to create a political furor to oppose the acyion of a government that was democratically elected. pretending he would leave the country was only a rouse to manipulate anyone who believes him. he betrayed the people he is supposed to care about and the system he is supposed to believe in. apparently he is only interested in havinng money not morals

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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/8/2010 6:07:39 PM   
slvemike4u


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And that's your fucking hero?...someone who won't even bankroll his own departure.....he's fucking lame....and you are getting there.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/8/2010 8:35:25 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirbates

alec Baldwin is an actor and his job is pretending. Rush Limbaugh's job is to promote a certain political view and has tremendous influence over the political views of millions of people who believe he is sincere and stands behind what he says. His words about leaving the US were intended to create a political furor to oppose the acyion of a government that was democratically elected. pretending he would leave the country was only a rouse to manipulate anyone who believes him. he betrayed the people he is supposed to care about and the system he is supposed to believe in. apparently he is only interested in havinng money not morals


No, Rush is an entertainer. Well at least to those who enjoy his show.


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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/9/2010 4:26:39 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

So it's okay for the right, but not for the left?


Recognizing propaganda, BS, and slanted offerings is a skill that everyone should have, regardless of which "side" they are on.

Firm




Which is why all of the right leaning sorts on here who were gleefully providing links to various op ed pieces and blogs about the faux pimp doing over Acorn did so in a guarded and objective fashion, of course.
It'd be interesting to find out to what extent the people who are behaving like there's a goblin squatting in the White House since the last election while whining about affirmative action are the same people who believe that Acorn and all it stands for is the work of the devil, wouldn't it?
(In the light of that, your comment above about leftist propaganda BS seemed a little, uncritical, shall we say. There's something really cute about your demand for casting a critical eye over any propaganda from either side, while swallowing crap like that hook line and sinker, dig?)

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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/9/2010 4:31:51 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

Which is why all of the right leaning sorts on here who were gleefully providing links to various op ed pieces and blogs about the faux pimp doing over Acorn did so in a guarded and objective fashion, of course.


All of them did that? Every one?

The reason I ask, is because I lean right and I don't remember gleefully providing links like that. Maybe you could gleefully link me to one of those posts and refresh my memory.


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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/9/2010 5:52:10 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

So it's okay for the right, but not for the left?


Recognizing propaganda, BS, and slanted offerings is a skill that everyone should have, regardless of which "side" they are on.

Firm




Which is why all of the right leaning sorts on here who were gleefully providing links to various op ed pieces and blogs about the faux pimp doing over Acorn did so in a guarded and objective fashion, of course.
It'd be interesting to find out to what extent the people who are behaving like there's a goblin squatting in the White House since the last election while whining about affirmative action are the same people who believe that Acorn and all it stands for is the work of the devil, wouldn't it?
(In the light of that, your comment above about leftist propaganda BS seemed a little, uncritical, shall we say. There's something really cute about your demand for casting a critical eye over any propaganda from either side, while swallowing crap like that hook line and sinker, dig?)


who are behaving like there's a goblin squatting in the White House

whining about affirmative action

who believe that Acorn and all it stands for is the work of the devil

your comment above about leftist propaganda BS seemed a little, uncritical

while swallowing crap like that hook line and sinker

Did I parse your complaints correctly?

If so, then please be so kind as to provide any proof of any of the accusations you are making about me.

Firm


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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/9/2010 6:44:25 AM   
FirmhandKY


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FR:

Serendipity.

I ran across an article that I think sheds some light on my point of view:


The Bias of Veteran Journalists
Lane Wallace
Apr 5 2010, 8:30 AM ET

Many times, at parties and in other conversations over the years, I have vociferously defended fellow journalists against charges of bias in their work. Particularly journalists working in the lowly field of print journalism, as opposed to TV.

...

But within those caveats, I've always maintained that the majority of professional print journalists, anyway, try very, very hard to get the story right. But recently, I had an experience that gave me a new perspective on the issue.


A few weeks ago, I attended the public launch of a company's product that had, until that point, been kept tightly under wraps ... The reason I was there was because I'd been interviewing the company's CEO over the previous several months for a book project. But that also meant that while I wasn't an expert about the industry in general, I was in the odd position of knowing more about the company's "secret" product than any other journalist in the room.


... the reporters' questions weren't geared toward getting a better understanding of those points. They were narrowly focused on one or two aspects of the story. And from the questions that were being asked, I realized--because I had so much more information on the subject--that the reporters were missing a couple of really important pieces of understanding about the product and its use. And as the event progressed, I also realized that the questions that might have uncovered those pieces weren't being asked because the reporters already had a story angle in their heads and were focused only on getting the necessary data points to flesh out and back up what they already thought was the story.

...

The journalists at the press conference didn't have a bias as the term is normally used; that is, I didn't get the sense that they were inherently for or against the company or its product. They just appeared to think they knew the subject well enough, or had a set enough idea in their heads as to what this kind of story was about, that they pursued only the lines of questioning necessary to fill in the blanks of that presumed story line. As a result, they left the press conference with less knowledge and understanding than they otherwise might have had. And while nobody could have said the resulting stories were entirely wrong, they definitely suffered from that lapse. Especially, as might be expected, when it came to the predictions they made about the product's evolution or future.

...

... a research study done by U.C. Berkeley professor Philip Tetlock ...

   "The central error diagnosed by Tetlock was the sin of certainty, which led the 'experts' to impose a top-down solution on their decision-making processes ... When pundits were convinced that they were right, they ignored any brain areas that implied they might be wrong."


Tetlock himself ... concluded that "The dominant danger [for pundits] remains hubris, the vice of closed-mindedness, of dismissing dissonant possibilities too quickly."


...

It's a tricky balance to try to strike--in part because assuming we know the salient points of a topic or story isn't an obvious, conscious bias as most people define or understand the term. Indeed, "practically all" of the professionals in Tetlock's study claimed, and no doubt believed, that they were dispassionately analyzing the evidence. But it's a reminder that we all have, as Tetlock put it, the potential to become "prisoners of our preconceptions." And that sometimes, even if we think we know the story, it might be worth asking questions as if we don't. Every now and then, we might hear or learn something that, as long as we're open to hearing it, might change our minds about what the real story is.

I think that too many "pundits" and "reporters" on both side of the political divide are guilty of hubris and arrogance, and think they already know what "the story" is about, when it isn't necessarily so, or even so half of the time.

I'm a firm proponent of critical thinking, and learning of the ways of propaganda and manipulation.

Firm


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RE: Rachel Maddow Exposes Fox News Bogus Coverage Of AC... - 4/9/2010 7:24:42 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
while swallowing crap like that hook line and sinker
[/blockquote]
Did I parse your complaints correctly?

If so, then please be so kind as to provide any proof of any of the accusations you are making about me.

Firm


http://www.collarchat.com/m_2818018/mpage_1/key_acorn/tm.htm#2818034
It actually was a right wing conspiracy

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2795692/mpage_2/key_acorn/tm.htm#2813456
Another uncritical acceptance

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