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RE: New restrictions for the use of nuclear weapons - 4/8/2010 10:40:54 PM   
Targetarear


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Joined: 3/25/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Don't worry. Even after reducing their weapons by one third, I believe Russia and the USA will still each have enough nukes to destroy the whole world.


Several times over.

Besides, if all nuclear weapons vanished tomorrow, we'd still have a tremendous advantage in conventional forces.

People have to get over this irrational fear of the world. It costs a damn lot of money that doesn't actually make us safe.

Ah, but you got to admit it made for some fun. I actually miss having a big rival like the Soviet Union, it seemed to keep the inbred folks focused on something other than how to bed their sister, well maybe not that distracted, but you know what I mean.

My only concern with the new policy is the outright announcing of what qualifies for the use of our arsenal, or I guess more accurately what no longer qualifies. It may be enough to remove any fear that some whackjob might have had prior to the changes.

I do like the idea behind the change, which I believe to try to move towards a more peaceful world, I am just not so sure about the execution. Time will tell.


I'm not sure "fun" is the right word, but I get your meaning. Looking back, I suppose there was something reassuring about having two superpowers stuffed to the gills with nuclear waepons, who fought each other through surrogates, but had the sound sense not to fight each other. The balance of terror was frightening, but I believe it actually kept us alive at a time when the production of nuclear weapons raced ahead. We came to the brink several times, especially over Cuba, but each time the leaders of the USA and USSR stared over it and decided nothing was worth the destruction of the world, and quietly found ways of stepping back without losing face.

But you're right about the dangesr you've highlighted. You don't win at Poker, or any other game of bluff, by disclosing your hand. It was the uncertainty in the minds of the leaders of both sides that prevented a nuclear war. I fear President Obama's announcement might make a nuclear war more, not less likely; not with the big players, Russia and China but with a smaller one. We have only to look at Horshima and Nagasaki, to see the devastation that would follow from only a limited "exchange".

Still, his heart was in the right place.


(in reply to Thadius)
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RE: New restrictions for the use of nuclear weapons - 4/8/2010 10:45:15 PM   
Termyn8or


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Joined: 11/12/2005
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"Still, his heart was in the right place"

You think with your brain, using any other part of the body for that purpose in not sane.

T

(in reply to Targetarear)
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RE: New restrictions for the use of nuclear weapons - 4/8/2010 10:54:48 PM   
countrychick


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Joined: 11/30/2006
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Damn political forums dragging me back in...

Just curious everyone, when was the last time a nuclear weapon was actually used? What was the result of such action? And shouldn't we as a world be working together instead of working against each other?

I'd imagine, and this is just a theory so if you disagree fine, I understand, but wouldn't the use of one nuclear weapon result in the usage of a second nuclear weapon and continuing on until both countries are destroyed alongside most of the rest of the world? Otherwise, why wouldn't they just nuke Afghanistan and Iraq and start over? Just saying that might be a heck of a lot easier resulting in much fewer American casualties and hey then the democracy could be instituted using those who were air lifted out by the US before the bomb who promise allegiance?

(Yes this is entirely out in left field or right field? perhaps centre field.. but kinda hilarious to think about..)


(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: New restrictions for the use of nuclear weapons - 4/8/2010 10:59:57 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

You could be right on that. Like I said the execution of the announcement is more of what I have an issue with, the concept seems to be sound. I was more worried about the whackos to be tempted to go after an ally, as opposed to an actual attack on the US itself. This could be a great feather in the cap of the new administration.

If you read the document it is quite clear that the doctrine applies to attacks on our allies as well as on us. I'm not sure about it being al that major. It seems to be another in the long series that will be needed to eliminate nulcear weapons worldwide.

I am fairly disgusted by the news media's coverage which is way to hysterical for the rather nuanced change in official policy.

(in reply to Thadius)
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RE: New restrictions for the use of nuclear weapons - 4/9/2010 12:16:33 AM   
Targetarear


Posts: 6
Joined: 3/25/2010
Status: offline
August 1945.

Targets: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Casualties: over 300,000 deaths, many more horrific injuries, followed by generations of people born with genetic mutations, and greater susceptibility to cancers.

Result: the end of war in the Pacific, which could have cost over a million lives, had the USA tried to invade Japan; and, most importantly, a "demonstration" of the destructive power of nuclear weapons, when they were in their infancy, as the result of which they have never been used again. (The smallest modern "strategic" nuclear warhead, the kind aimed at cities, is eight times as powerful as the bomb exploded over Hiroshima, five times as powerful as the one exploded over Nagasaki).

The theory, throughout the "cold war" was that if either side resorted to battlefiled nuclear weapons that would be followed by a swift escalation, with each side lobbing hundreds of missiles at the other, resulting in worldwide destruction. Whether that would have happened, nobody can say, but the "Cuban Missile Crisis" suggests that sane leaders would not have contemplated such an exchange. I suspect the use of battlefield weapons backed by the threat of attacks on civilian targets would have brought any conflict in Europe swiftly to an end, with each side withdrawing to its original positions.

Of course, it's well known that if a large nuclear warhead is exploded high in the atmosphere, it produces what is known as an "electro-magnetic pulse" that will burn out electricity supplies, communications, even automobile batteries, so you could cripple a country with just one big bomb that, at worst, would only shatter windows at ground level, and cause no more serious injuries than acute sunburn. I suspect that if things had escalated, that would have been more the likely course of a "strategic nuclear exchange" between NATO and the Warsaw Pact. But perhaps that's just wishful thinking on my part.

quote:

ORIGINAL: countrychick

Damn political forums dragging me back in...

Just curious everyone, when was the last time a nuclear weapon was actually used? What was the result of such action? And shouldn't we as a world be working together instead of working against each other?

I'd imagine, and this is just a theory so if you disagree fine, I understand, but wouldn't the use of one nuclear weapon result in the usage of a second nuclear weapon and continuing on until both countries are destroyed alongside most of the rest of the world? Otherwise, why wouldn't they just nuke Afghanistan and Iraq and start over? Just saying that might be a heck of a lot easier resulting in much fewer American casualties and hey then the democracy could be instituted using those who were air lifted out by the US before the bomb who promise allegiance?

(Yes this is entirely out in left field or right field? perhaps centre field.. but kinda hilarious to think about..)




(in reply to countrychick)
Profile   Post #: 25
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