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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/8/2010 1:13:41 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
I think this is what I was getting at in  my head-I did a quick google scholar search, but nothing too obvious came up, and I've forgotten everything the library ever taught me about how to look up papers on JSTOR. I'd be really interested in the research methods used in obtaining a blanket statement like that-I can't see how you would get around the bolded part.


Try Krafft-Ebbing as a search term.  His work is outdated, but it's influenced subsequent research.  My contention is that since I am unsure of exactly what methods early researchers used to eliminate the possibility of people flat out lying in their responses due to embarrassment, it is arguable that some of the disproportionately recorded numbers of male to female fetishists may be due to a greater learned social bias in females against reporting sexual behaviors outside the norm.  I think more accurate numbers can be gotten via fieldwork in communities such as this one, but that is almost always the case.


quote:

The part of that paragraph which jumped out at me was 'one sort or another'; I have yet to come across a woman (either on here or in real life) who has a monodimensional kink, but I *have* come across men who do, and I was wondering if that was coincidence, or some kind of intrinsic wiring.


Well, the researchers say it is in fact intrinsic wiring, and they may be correct.  It's been awhile since I really looked at papers on the subject, but the research should be easy enough to find. 

< Message edited by LadyNTrainer -- 4/8/2010 1:15:39 PM >

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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/8/2010 1:14:45 PM   
SweetDommes


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Status: offline 		I'd be more interested in him knowing that he had an aristocratic title - but not more sexually interested ... I would just think it's cool and want to find out more about the whole hierarchy of the titles and such lol

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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/8/2010 1:24:31 PM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		Aristocratic titles are a downright embarrassment to many of those who have them here, SD - unless, that is, they have the castles and wealth to go with them. My friend didn't. I met this guy when I was doing a charity fund-raising job as a student. He was as penniless as I was.

But - seriously - yourself aside, the evidence is vast that women (in general) will be more sexually attracted to men who are powerful. A shortarse becomes desirable if he happens to be Napoleon; a middle-aged, paunchy man with thick glasses is a hit with the ladies if he happens to be Dr Kissinger.



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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/8/2010 1:29:00 PM   
SweetDommes


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Status: offline 		That's sad. Money or not, I think it would be awesome to have a friend with a title like that. But then again, I'm a complete geek for history, and I prefer personality over money ... and if you look at trends, you'll see that a lot of the women who chase money, end up banging the pool boy as often (or more often) than their rich husbands.

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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/8/2010 1:32:28 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer
quote:

The part of that paragraph which jumped out at me was 'one sort or another'; I have yet to come across a woman (either on here or in real life) who has a monodimensional kink, but I *have* come across men who do, and I was wondering if that was coincidence, or some kind of intrinsic wiring.


Well, the researchers say it is in fact intrinsic wiring, and they may be correct.  It's been awhile since I really looked at papers on the subject, but the research should be easy enough to find. 


The researchers couldn't have been in a position to know if it was 'intrinsic wiring' or not, LadyN. That would be tantamount to arguing that they 'know' that such a thing depended on nature rather than nurture.

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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/8/2010 6:37:20 PM   
TNstepsout


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Status: offline 		I agree with most of what has been said.  (and learned a few things too-thank you).  I don't think the fetish argument is just an easy put down.  I know it certainly exists.  One of the first "fetishists" I encountered was obsessed with being hit or kicked in the balls.  We were having a chat and discussing things we might do together and almost every sentence was "then you could punch me in the balls", and we weren't even talking about sex or play!!  He was impossible to have a conversation with because all he was thinking about was all the variations of his kink.

I admit that I have a few fetishes, but the big difference between my "interests" and the fetishists I've encountered is that I'm not obsessed with them to nearly the same degree.  They are things, I guess you could say, I am unusually excited or aroused about, but I am not fanatically focused on experiencing these things. If I get the opportunity, heck yeah, I'll take it, but I'm not obsessively seeking to indulge my fetishes. 

Additionally fetishists do not seem willing or possibly able to really engage in other forms of play.  They are so obsessed with their single interest that they aren't mentally present until they get to the part they like.  They are like a sulky pre-teen on vacation with Mom and Dad.  All they want to do is get home and call their friends on the phone, they don't want to hang out with boring Mom and Dad.

For the most part I don't think women fixate on fetishes the way men often do.  I don't know why the difference exists, but it does seem to be the case.  I don't have any problems with a sub who has a few favorite kinks or fetishes, but he has to be able to enjoy variety and enjoy and participate in the entire experience of being a sub.  He can't be in it just to engage in his fixation.

No matter how much I might enjoy punching someone in the balls, if that's all he wants it would get boring fast.

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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/8/2010 7:04:45 PM   
cloudboy


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quote:

OBEDIENCE!


Obedience is not a fetish. Neither is spanking. 26 responses and not one (1) woman has listed a bona fide fetish.

As a counterpoint to some opinions here, I have certain fetishes, and they have not precluded my ability to have intimate relationships.

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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/8/2010 7:09:02 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

OBEDIENCE!


Obedience is not a fetish. Neither is spanking. 26 responses and not one (1) woman has listed a bona fide fetish.



All of them are fetishes according to the definition of 'fetish' that's been used so far. What definition do you think we should use, CB?

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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/8/2010 7:12:06 PM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
Obedience is not a fetish. Neither is spanking. 26 responses and not one (1) woman has listed a bona fide fetish.

As a counterpoint to some opinions here, I have certain fetishes, and they have not precluded my ability to have intimate relationships.

Sorry, but spanking is indeed a fetish.

For the other, I honestly don't perceive My kinks as fetishes.  Now, kinks I have plenty of, and darn near every regular on these boards has an idea of what those are.  If I should ever get to the point where I am obsessed with My kinks, or can not achieve sexual satisfaction without them, then I will label them fetishes and it will be a different discussion.


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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/8/2010 8:30:35 PM   
cloudboy


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quote:

All of them are fetishes according to the definition of 'fetish' that's been used so far. What definition do you think we should use, CB?


fetish |ˈfeti sh |
noun
an inanimate object worshiped for its supposed magical powers or because it is considered to be inhabited by a spirit.
• a course of action to which one has an excessive and irrational commitment : he had a fetish for writing more opinions each year than any other justice.
• a form of sexual desire in which gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to a particular object, item of clothing, part of the body, etc. : Victorian men developed fetishes focusing on feet, shoes, and boots.

--------

Liking or wanting a behavior (obedience in this case) from someone is not a fetish. What LH described was a "turn-on" not a fetish. For instance "dirty talk" is a turn on (for some) but it is not a fetish.

Men in military uniforms, red ties, cufflincks, strong biceps -- those might be fetishes.

Funny while no woman has yet to cop to fetish here yet, many women certainly like to dress up, wear high heels, corsets, get their nails painted, hair styled, where sheer sexy clothing etc. But, we don't tag them as fetishists for doing it. Are they merely pandering to men here, or do they have their own embedded interests in these articles?

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 4/8/2010 9:04:20 PM >

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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/8/2010 9:08:40 PM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


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Status: offline 		Enjoying wearing fetish attire, such as corsets or heels or whatever else, doesn't necessarily make it a fetish. Needing to wear such attire to 'get off' would make it a fetish. I enjoy dressing in leather and heels at times, but I do not need to dress that way to feel good about myself or to have an orgasm. The reason I enjoy it is because it makes me feel sexy, empowered, and hot. When I feel that way, I get more primal, but I also feel that way in jeans and a cute shirt too...lol.

Obedience could very well be a fetish if the person who likes obedience NEEDS their partner to be obedient to achieve orgasm. I strongly identify with that desire, but since I don't 'need' obedience to achieve orgasm, I don't consider it a fetish for myself, just a very strong desire.

I do not consider any of my kinks to be fetishes. I don't think many women do. I think that was what VC was hoping to find out.

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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/8/2010 9:20:59 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

Men in military uniforms, red ties, cufflincks -- those might be fetishes.


While these are turn ons for me, they aren't fetish.

Btw cloudboy, you offer one definition of a fetish, but it isn't the only one. - Sorry VC, this is a slight highjack but I hope it will only help clarify the OP.

Word Origin & History

fetish

1610s, fatisso, from Port. fetiço "charm, sorcery," originally feitiço "made artfully, artificial," from L. facticius "made by art," from facere "to make" (see factitious). L. facticius in Sp. has become hechizo "magic, witchcraft, sorcery." Probably introduced by Port. sailors and traders as a name for charms and talismans worshipped by the inhabitants of the Guinea coast of Africa. Popularized in anthropology by C. de Brosses' Le Culte des Dieux Fétiches (1760), which influenced the word's spelling in English (Fr. fétiche, also from the Port. word). Figurative sense of "something irrationally revered" is Amer.Eng. 1837. For sexual sense, see fetishism.

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper

fet·ish also fet·ich (fět'ĭsh, fē'tĭsh)
n.

An object that is believed to have magical or spiritual powers, especially such an object associated with animistic or shamanistic religious practices.

An object of unreasonably excessive attention or reverence: made a fetish of punctuality.

Something, such as a material object or a nonsexual part of the body, that arouses sexual desire and may become necessary for sexual gratification.

An abnormally obsessive preoccupation or attachment; a fixation.

[French fétiche, from Portuguese feitiço, artificial, charm, from Latin factīcius, artificial; see factitious.]

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2009 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Medical Dictionary

fe·tish definition
also fe·tich Pronunciation: /ˈfet-ish also ˈfēt-/
Function: n
: an object or bodily part whose real or fantasized presence is psychologically necessary for sexual gratification and that is an object of fixation to the extent that it may interfere with complete sexual expression

Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2007 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

fetish fet·ish (fět'ĭsh, fē'tĭsh)
n.

Something, such as an object or a nonsexual part of the body, that arouses sexual desire and may become necessary for sexual gratification.

An abnormally obsessive preoccupation or attachment.

The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary
Copyright © 2002, 2001, 1995 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Cultural Dictionary

fetish definition

An object believed to carry a magical or spiritual force. Some so-called primitive tribes practice cult worship of fetishes. (See animism and totemism.)

Note: Figuratively, a “fetish” is any object that arouses excessive devotion: “Lucille made a fetish of her Porsche.”

The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

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What is evident here is that the word "fetish has evolved from

  • a historical definition: object necessary for sexual gratification to
  • an expanded historical definition: object or objectification of a non-primary sexual body part necessary for sexual gratification to
  • a definition that includes kinky play: object or objectification of a non-primary sexual body part or primarily non-sexual play (e.g.: forms of discipline such as spanking) necessary for sexual gratification to
  • a definition that makes a fetish a cultural sexual thing: just about anything necessary for sexual gratification to
  • a definition that makes a fetish a cultural thing: just about anything necessary for pleasure


So when you say spanking is not a fetish, if you stick to the original sense of the word, you are quite right. But words and terms evolve and if you are willing to accept that premise, then LadyPact can include spanking as a fetish and I can included intelligence and intimacy.

- LA

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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/9/2010 12:17:44 AM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Domin8tingUrDrmz

I do not consider any of my kinks to be fetishes. I don't think many women do. I think that was what VC was hoping to find out.


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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/9/2010 3:15:38 AM   
KITTYLECTRO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
...paunchy man with thick glasses is a hit with the ladies if he happens to be Dr Kissinger.

Dr. Kissinger, you say?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WHd5qG_iZ4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXS9osLXMdU


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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/9/2010 6:55:00 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
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Status: offline 		CM posters tend to expand the the meaning of the word fetish into "I like" and "I'm turned on by." This is a mistake.

If you water down a word's meaning enough, it fails to differentiate. If all things that start a person's sexual energy are "fetishes" then how exactly are we supposed to separate the dreaded fetishists from everyone else?

I understand that usage can change a word, but what if common usage of a word lacks any understanding of the word in the first place? Do the language lords guard the sanctity of the word itself and correct the herd -- or can the heard pull a word anywhere it wants on the open range?

I say there are rubber fetishists. But there are no obedience fetishists or spanking fetishists. The latter should substitute the word "kink" for fetish.



< Message edited by cloudboy -- 4/9/2010 7:39:07 AM >

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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/9/2010 7:57:34 AM   
OttersSwim


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Status: offline 		I think our sample is contaminated...

As I said before, you have to admit we get a lot of males here who appear to be fetishists and most present themselves as being tied completely to a single kink.  That they are presenting as being so tied to a single kink strengthens the perception that the kink has likely reached the level of being a fetish.

You also have to admit, that we get damn few females here that present in that manner at all.

But we are not in a lab in New Jersey where we can create a relative and fair sample of the population.

We are on CollarMe, a dating site.  Sites that are more frequented by males, and the "sampling" is going to be skewed to those that are looking specifically to satisfy a kink or fetish.

I prefer to think better of my birth gender than to let what goes on here form my opinion of all males everywhere, nor of all females everywhere.

So where are the female fetishists?  Is there another venue where -they- are attracted to?  Or are we really seeing, even in a skewed manner, the reality  and the difference between men and women - at least within this subculture?

Or...are they here, but they express their desire for their fetishes in a different way?  Go after it in a more subtle way perhaps?  My mind is saying "give in order to get".  Got to say that we have heard almost nothing from female subs in this topic and if there is a place in this place where you might be likely to encounter a female fetishist, my opinion is that it would be among the female submissive population.

Maybe we should pull a few of them in and get their views?

< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 4/9/2010 7:58:47 AM >

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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/9/2010 10:55:34 AM   
MsMillgrove


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Status: offline 		CLoudboy. all the definitions, even the earliest--had one aspect that is not a "water down". That would be "Excessive attachment to an object." expanded later to body parts or behaviors. Even the original fetish did not abolutely require sexual gratification as a component of obsession, only that the craving or devotion be abnormal.

I agree the CM posts often end up with definitions blurred into such vagueness that it's difficult to communicate with one another.

You're right I didn't name the fetish in my first response to the OP, but I spoke extensively about one fetish that a single person can satisfy. I am excessively attached to that fetish. I want something that I cannot get--and it's trivial. I simply want it done a certain way and no amount of explanation or demo has been effective in trying to get a male to do what I want. So when I found the one who can do it--I will return to him again and again.

It does make me a fetishist. And yeah it's the very thing listed in the dictionary. Feet. I want my feet handled in a particular way.. that only this guy can manage. Even more ironically, he's never touched any ladies feet, at all, until i demanded this of him. No practice on it, ever. And the fact that I am the first and only, makes it even more thrilling to me.

I don't want to give the long history of how i accidentally stumbled into this craving. Suffice to say that I have a sub who is a shoe slut, and there turns out to be a big difference between sexual gratification through shoes vs feet. A pro domme who gave me advice on this pointed out that shoe sluts are rare compared to foot fetishists.

I end up tolerating shoe talk-play for ages until my sub has had enough, then I enjoy torturing him by trampling. But I never got one moment of pleasure out of him regarding my feet. He's impossible with that.

In my experience only, most femdoms don't care one way or another about feet, they are happy to have them cared for, some love pedicures, but not many would claim it was a fetish with them. But I am crazy for it...and tho it surprises me to discover this late in life, I am thrilled to have found one person who gives me what I want.

< Message edited by MsMillgrove -- 4/9/2010 11:02:19 AM >

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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/9/2010 11:42:00 AM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
The researchers couldn't have been in a position to know if it was 'intrinsic wiring' or not, LadyN. That would be tantamount to arguing that they 'know' that such a thing depended on nature rather than nurture.


I would have to review the literature to recall the basis on which the researchers were suggesting that true clinical fetishism may be a sex-linked phenomenon in some hardwired biological manner, and frankly I don't have the time or inclination.  If you're seriously interested in an answer to that question, there is material out there, but I don't have it at my fingertips.  As best I recall, there is at least some basis for making that particular argument, but you'd have to review it for yourself to have an educated opinion of it.  I simply don't know at this time, as I haven't reviewed the data in recent memory.   


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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/10/2010 7:34:02 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: Domin8tingUrDrmz

I do not consider any of my kinks to be fetishes. I don't think many women do. I think that was what VC was hoping to find out.


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Ok, I didn't realise this was your point. I do think there are female fetishists and there is research to back up my assumption—see Deviant Desires: Incredibly Strange Sex by Katherine Gates.

Actually Katherine Gates did a visual map of sexual fetishes which attributes several fetishes as being primarily attributed to women.

- LA

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RE: Female Fetishists? - 4/10/2010 7:54:30 AM   
VaguelyCurious


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From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Ok, I didn't realise this was your point. I do think there are female fetishists and there is research to back up my assumption—see Deviant Desires: Incredibly Strange Sex by Katherine Gates.

Actually Katherine Gates did a visual map of sexual fetishes which attributes several fetishes as being primarily attributed to women.

- LA
That book looks amazing-I'm going to be ordering it as soon as I get home to Bristol :-)


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