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Raising children? - 4/16/2010 9:59:42 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Recently a few news reports have caught my eye.

One was about a 15 year old girl selling her 7 year old sister to a group of men for sex... after selling herself.

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-sister-sex,0,358823.story?track=rss

Another was about teens gaining pa system access at stores and announcing "all blacks must leave now".

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_jersey/20100413_ap_njteenchargedaftercommentonstoreintercom.html

Also recall the case of the teen raped at a high school in california.

My question is... what are we teaching our children... or are we teaching them at all?

My belief is that so many parents are more concerned about being their child's friend that they lost the ability to parent. The kids are parenting themselves. a bad disaster, as the news is starting to reflect.

your thoughts?

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RE: Raising children? - 4/16/2010 10:15:32 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		My thoughts are that posts regarding underage subjects are against the TOS.

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RE: Raising children? - 4/16/2010 10:22:39 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		Not unless they've changed the TOS again. There's nothing in there about discussing children. I don't think there ever has been, really.

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RE: Raising children? - 4/16/2010 10:24:09 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

My thoughts are that posts regarding underage subjects are against the TOS.


http://www.collarchat.com/m_2880418/mpage_1/tm.htm

really?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Raising children? - 4/16/2010 10:31:25 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		I don't believe it's about people wanting to be friends rather than parents, more that parents just don't give a fuck.

the.dark.

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RE: Raising children? - 4/16/2010 10:34:51 AM   
VideoAdminZeta


Posts: 1103
Joined: 7/26/2008
From: the darkest recesses of your twisted minds
Status: offline 		Discussion of news reports is fine.  Discussion of parenting styles is fine.  We'll be watching this thread with interest, but as long as posters avoid discussing sex with minors (or sexual experiences they might have had when they were underage) it's good to go.

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RE: Raising children? - 4/16/2010 10:37:08 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you! That was my intention with this thread. To dicuss parenting styles and whats happening among the teens, not the sexual situations themselves. If this thread does go down a dark path, i have no doubt it will be pulled, and you will definitely have my blessings to do so.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Raising children? - 4/16/2010 10:48:11 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		First lesson I learned,sadly not till after my divorce and it became an absolute necessity I learn it....My son needed a parent...not another friend.
Certainly I could and would maintain a "friendly" relationship with him,but when the rubber hit the road I was Dad....not dude or pal.
Parents who try to "maintain the lines of communication" by bending over backwards to accede to the wants and peccadillos of their children...do a major disservice to those same children

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Raising children? - 4/16/2010 10:58:17 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		First of all, there are people that just should not have children. Unfortunately there is nothing we can do to change that. Many kids suffer because of that fact.

Secondly, at least here in the US, we've become too permissive. Too worried about upsetting the precious little angels by telling them "no". Sometimes you don't need to 'have a talk', sometimes you do not have to explain your parental decisions, sometimes it is just "No! And tough shit if you don't like it!" It's like parents are afraid their kids won't like them. I remember telling my kids after they were upset about my decisions, telling me I was mean, or accusing me of not loving them, telling me they hated me..."Too bad, I am not hear to be popular, liked, or any of that, I am here to parent you. We can worry about whether you like me or not when you are grown."

I get along just fine with my kids now. I must not have been too bad a mother, my kids are parenting like I did. And they have noooooooo problem, with their kids hanging out with granny, unsupervised!

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 4/16/2010 11:01:01 AM >

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Raising children? - 4/16/2010 11:04:44 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
First of all, there are people that just should not have children.

I agree.

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RE: Raising children? - 4/16/2010 11:08:39 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I agree as well. The question stands... do we hold the parents accountable for the actions of their children in such cases? I know the kids who did the pa announcements in those stores thought they were being funny, but at what point do we, as a society, slam a foot down and say... enough is enough. It used to be by the time you got home, your parents already knew you screwed up, where and how. Am i the only one who misses those days?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Raising children? - 4/16/2010 11:15:36 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Raising children is something I can get pretty opinionated on. We have a baby, cute little bundle of joy that pushes our limits on sleep and many other things. They are so cute and sweet that we want to give them the world and all that we didn't have and we surely don't want to raise them like our parents did! So when lil cute thing cries for whatever, we give them what they want. They are very smart lil things and they learn that we jump when they do whatever. The world circulates around them and we prove that every time we give into their wants rather than their needs. They often become little tyrants who rule the household and although the parents are worn out and frustrated, they must not be a bad parent and correct or heaven forbid correct them as their faulty parents did. We give our beautiful spawn everything their little hearts desire simply because they desire it and pat ourselves on the back for being a better parent than what came before us.

We protect them from reality. Heaven forbid they know about bad guys, hurtful things, how to interact with others in a society that might happen to give a fuck about someone else. We don't teach them to care about others and enforce being nice with playmates, enabling them and excusing their behavior because that is just the way our little darling is. We teach them safely in a secured world of fantasy where nothing bad happens, we don't want to shock them or make them fearful. We hide reality and enable the advancement of delusion in our pretty fabulous world of polly anna and have it all. Rather than teaching them tools in which to handle the bad things in life, we hide them from it.

Soon the cute little bundle is all over the house demanding its way and terrorizing anyone that stands in the way. People avoid inviting the parents to their house because they have their own little tyrants and so they form play groups and all sorts of programs to show not love and opportunity, but that the world is all about them. No matter how exhausted mommy and daddy may be from working to support a family, we push parent and child to be involved and we rarely capture those wonderful quiet moments in life and one another. After a while as they age and the demands for more and better play toys many parents being ever so wonderful in providing all they missed out on, will go into debt to please the little wonders. What a horrible world it would be to have to share a bedroom and learn to work out those little differences or to do without a phone or a computer at the age of elementary school children.

Then we feed them crap, let them watch all sorts of things on television, give them less physical activity, don't hold them accountable or teach them to be responsible, even to us.

We have replaced instruction on what it means to be human in a society and allow our wondrous spawn to be free and throw few no's, negative's and limitations upon them thinking they will do better as an individual if they are free to express themselves. We actually hinder their freedom by allowing them to think the world revolves around them, they are little prince's and princess's and the world is at their feet to do and provide whatever they want.

Many fail to understand that a young child is very intelligent and can be taught and many have given up the good teaching of how life really works because they either don't have the life skills or have given up on them and are being pretty selfish themselves. How can you teach something you don't know? So you pass your unhappiness down, spoil them because you think you should and then can't understand why the fuck you have this teen monster in your house that won't listen to you, making an already difficult time in life, pure hell and dangerous.

I remember a day when doctors encouraged punishment for certain behavior and now that isn't allowed and we talk to them... until we are blue in the face and they tune out. We forgot that loving them means teaching them and disciplining them. Love without discipline is dysfunctional love in my opinion. If we lose balance, how can we teach balance? I believe in lots of love and affection and a swift, firm, but not abusive palm to a behind when you have talked once and they understand and simply push the limit.

But then that is my way and the way I have taught many people who have successfully raised their children, if they listened. If they didn't, they got the results you read about in the papers. Funny how those people avoid me today. Some will really disagree with me, but I stand by what I believe because it worked for me and for others. This short bit, although long for a post, cannot cover it all, but remember I talked of lots of love and affection and not letting discipline be abusive.

Children are a joy! But they have needs and whatever we are doing whether people agree with me or not... isn't working on a whole.


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RE: Raising children? - 4/16/2010 11:23:07 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I agree as well. The question stands... do we hold the parents accountable for the actions of their children in such cases? I know the kids who did the pa announcements in those stores thought they were being funny, but at what point do we, as a society, slam a foot down and say... enough is enough. It used to be by the time you got home, your parents already knew you screwed up, where and how. Am i the only one who misses those days?


I think the way our society has changed, we often do not know our neighbours, has changed the small town 'one for all and all for one' that existed in my childhood.  It still exists in small town America, just that so few of the population lives there.

I do believe that parents need to be held accountable to a point for their children's mistakes, but where that line is drawn, and how....is less easy to define. Sometimes it really isn't the parents fault. Sometimes they have done everything possible. Sometimes that kid will screw up regardless. Sometimes it's just part of life's hard knocks/lessons.

I think kids need alternatives that we, as a society, do not provide. It is easy to blame the parents but the reality is that, all too often the parents are already overwhelmed. Example: A single mom that is working 8-12 hours a day with no money for childcare while she is working. No visible father. Kids taking care of kids.

Blaming the mother is an easy out. How do you hold her accountable when her 14yo son that learned from the 17 yo neighbour kid how to hot wire a care, steals a car? If she hasn't got any way to pay, it does no good.

It's similar to how I feel about the religious right and abortion. Demonize it all you want but come up with a REAL AND VIABLE solution. Not just preach no sex and stupid shit that does nothing to help the very real problems.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Raising children? - 4/16/2010 11:23:39 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I remember a day when doctors encouraged punishment for certain behavior and now that isn't allowed and we talk to them... until we are blue in the face and they tune out. We forgot that loving them means teaching them and disciplining them. Love without discipline is dysfunctional love in my opinion. If we lose balance, how can we teach balance? I believe in lots of love and affection and a swift, firm, but not abusive palm to a behind when you have talked once and they understand and simply push the limit.


This is exactly how i raised mine. at 24, no police record, well liked by all the adults he is in contact with, rarely backtalks, but is very opinionated and knows how to express himself appropriately.

I was raised, and raised mine, with the idea that children crave boundaries. Without them, there is no respect.. there is no need to respect. They have no boundaries, what possibly could happen?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Raising children? - 4/16/2010 11:32:10 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Great post Lockit!

I think most children need boundaries and structure. Neither is always pleasant but without it......all hell breaks loose.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Raising children? - 4/16/2010 11:34:04 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I think the way our society has changed, we often do not know our neighbours, has changed the small town 'one for all and all for one' that existed in my childhood.  It still exists in small town America, just that so few of the population lives there.

I do believe that parents need to be held accountable to a point for their children's mistakes, but where that line is drawn, and how....is less easy to define. Sometimes it really isn't the parents fault. Sometimes they have done everything possible. Sometimes that kid will screw up regardless. Sometimes it's just part of life's hard knocks/lessons.

I think kids need alternatives that we, as a society, do not provide. It is easy to blame the parents but the reality is that, all too often the parents are already overwhelmed. Example: A single mom that is working 8-12 hours a day with no money for childcare while she is working. No visible father. Kids taking care of kids.

Blaming the mother is an easy out. How do you hold her accountable when her 14yo son that learned from the 17 yo neighbour kid how to hot wire a care, steals a car? If she hasn't got any way to pay, it does no good.

It's similar to how I feel about the religious right and abortion. Demonize it all you want but come up with a REAL AND VIABLE solution. Not just preach no sex and stupid shit that does nothing to help the very real problems.



I agree!  Society doesn't help good parents be good parents, it can actually hinder them. My kids used to think that I was cruel because I didn't think they needed all that life and society demanded they have. They later thanked me for parenting as I did. The schools ran wild, while not allowing anyone to tattle, didn't protect them and actually taught them more subjects ineffectively. They had to dress the same, eat the same, do the same, be the same, have a computer to do homework and homework got in the way of life instruction at home, which would balance things out. Now in pre school they bring home homework they cannot do on their own as they haven't learned to do them and the parents must do it after working one or two jobs with often times a missing parent. There is a time for education in both places and taking time from one to do the other is hindering a well rounded education in both area's.

It's all a mess and backwards.


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RE: Raising children? - 4/16/2010 11:42:27 AM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
your thoughts?


At any one time I had one parent being my guardian. I wish I had two parents. I was unplanned and they could never agree with each other. On anything.

Which was confusing.




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You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
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RE: Raising children? - 4/16/2010 11:50:45 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

First of all, there are people that just should not have children. Unfortunately there is nothing we can do to change that. Many kids suffer because of that fact.

Secondly, at least here in the US, we've become too permissive. Too worried about upsetting the precious little angels by telling them "no". Sometimes you don't need to 'have a talk', sometimes you do not have to explain your parental decisions, sometimes it is just "No! And tough shit if you don't like it!" It's like parents are afraid their kids won't like them. I remember telling my kids after they were upset about my decisions, telling me I was mean, or accusing me of not loving them, telling me they hated me..."Too bad, I am not hear to be popular, liked, or any of that, I am here to parent you. We can worry about whether you like me or not when you are grown."

I get along just fine with my kids now. I must not have been too bad a mother, my kids are parenting like I did. And they have noooooooo problem, with their kids hanging out with granny, unsupervised!

The highlighted above was pretty much My way of thinking about it, too.  (You guys didn't really think it was only on CM that I ever said I wasn't in existence just to make others happy, did you?)

I was pretty strict with My kids growing up.  Now that they are both adults, they know why.  It's funny, too, because the same way that I made them behave is now the way My daughter wants My granddaughter to behave.  Yep.  The same kid who gave Me all of those speeches about how when she had kids, she was always going to let them do this or that, found out that, in reality, raising a kid Mom's way wasn't such a bad thing after all.


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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

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RE: Raising children? - 4/16/2010 11:59:53 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I remember a day when doctors encouraged punishment for certain behavior and now that isn't allowed and we talk to them... until we are blue in the face and they tune out. We forgot that loving them means teaching them and disciplining them. Love without discipline is dysfunctional love in my opinion. If we lose balance, how can we teach balance? I believe in lots of love and affection and a swift, firm, but not abusive palm to a behind when you have talked once and they understand and simply push the limit.


This is exactly how i raised mine. at 24, no police record, well liked by all the adults he is in contact with, rarely backtalks, but is very opinionated and knows how to express himself appropriately.

I was raised, and raised mine, with the idea that children crave boundaries. Without them, there is no respect.. there is no need to respect. They have no boundaries, what possibly could happen?
Not trying to argue a one true way or anything of the sort but discipline does not need to take the form of a hand ,palm or otherwise to an ass or any other part of the anatomy.
Again I'm not claiming their is a right way nor a wrong way.....just that there are other ways..I came from abuse,that formed and affected how I would raiise mine.The first rule I had in place was that under no circumstance would I ever use my hands(or any other implement) to get my point across.For me,and please remember I said for me...that was too scary a proposition.
I'm quite happy with how he turned out and tickled pink that I was able to do so without ever tempting fate as far as following in my dad's footsteps(as a chill goes down my spine)

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Raising children? - 4/16/2010 12:05:53 PM   
Louve00


Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		I pretty much agree with all the posts so far on this topic.  I certainly don't strive to be a "friend" to my daughter.  If we see eye to eye on an issue, great.  If we don't, at her age, and with her headstrong attitude, there's usually a conflict and she usually winds up with some privilege being taken away from her.  When I was being raised "spare the rod, spoil the child" was a tried and true and well-used method (by my mother, as well).  Because of that....I wouldn't say I was afraid of my mother, but I had a respect for her and for authority.  (or was that respect of the belt?? hmmm)

I think that's what alot of kids lack today....respect for authority and taking responsibility.  While I don't, or never have, slapped by daughter, I have found that the concept of earning what you want works well for us.  As well as the knowledge of losing privileges (or things) when she doesn't follow the rules, with the knowledge that it can be earned back with proper behavior.  It takes work.  And since you can't put fear into your child with the rod anymore (so to speak lol), you have to take the time to put into them and teach them.  To praise them for their successes, along with making them pay for their fuck-ups.  Letting them know they have the power and choice to make the outcome of whatever a thing may be, based on their attitude or intention.

It is my belief that not teaching a child (teen) life lessons is such a serious injustice to them.  Who is going to take care of them after you're gone, if you don't teach them now how to take care of themselves in this society, today?  I can only assume where things are going wrong today is people don't put the time into their children.  They can't just beat their ass and send them to their rooms to stew over it.  They have to actually teach their children and they (parents or guardians) won't take the time.  So, the result is a child who has as much ability to function well in this society as a child who was neglected.  And I guess not teaching your child is a form of neglect...and child neglect is a form of child abuse.  But that hasn't dawned on anyone yet, I guess. 

Anyway...what was the question, again? 


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For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

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