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Are the French lazy? - 4/4/2006 2:52:44 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		Untill today, I did not know that France had a law that told employers that they were not allowed to fire an employee under any circumstances including tardiness, absentisim, theft, and shooting the birdy at the boss. It looks like France figured out that this policy is not going over very well for businesses. Now that the law is being changed, look at all the lazy ass people protesting saying how evil it should be for an employer to fire people. Are they really so lazy to work that they need a law that says they can never be fired upon being hired? Atleast they aren't being lazy about rioting.

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RE: Are the French lazy? - 4/4/2006 3:00:48 PM   
Moloch


Posts: 1090
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Status: offline 		Welcome to Socialism  comrade!!!

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RE: Are the French lazy? - 4/4/2006 3:51:23 PM   
amativedame


Posts: 331
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline 		Well I've heard several different things about it (from a few people in France who it would affect) and I have to say I would be too happy if my job contact meant I was a temp. employee (and could be fired without just cause) for two years before I was actually considered permanent staff either. 

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RE: Are the French lazy? - 4/4/2006 3:56:30 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		You make it sound like this is:
a) new
b) French

It's neither.  We have the same situations in the US, as well as many other countries.

The complex issues of job security, job benefits, processes and changes in social and financial dynamics is hardly something to brush with "The French are just lazy." 

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RE: Are the French lazy? - 4/4/2006 4:12:36 PM   
FangsNfeet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
It's neither.  We have the same situations in the US, as well as many other countries.


If I told a customer to "FUCK OFF!" that would be for immediate termination. The same goes for stealing and only showing up to work when I feel like it regardless of what's on the schedule. 

I don't know of any laws here in the US that tells an employer that the can't fire an employee for skipping work and being caught in the act on video tape stealing supplies from the company.   

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RE: Are the French lazy? - 4/4/2006 4:12:46 PM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline 		Am I very far off when I say that I find the Asian people be one of the most hard working nationality (then I mean just..yeh most countries in Asia)?

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RE: Are the French lazy? - 4/4/2006 4:26:26 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		Actually, in America, it can be very hard to dismiss an employee, for whatever reason.  Even more so if they have a union to back them up.  If the employee you just terminated sues you, as many people will, at the drop of a hat, it can cost you a lot in legal bills and aggravation.

You have to document the heck out of an employee's negative behavior, and any well-run corporation will have an employee manual that spells out, in detail, policies and procedures and exactly what you can be terminated for.  You have to have a signed document that the employee read and understood the policies and procedures and agrees to abide by them.

Then, when they start showing up late, showing insubordination, showing up under the influence, you have to start the documentation to show a "pattern" that occurs over time.  You have to show "just cause" for the termination.  Even then, they can probably apply for and receive unemployment compensation.

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RE: Are the French lazy? - 4/4/2006 4:35:46 PM   
amativedame


Posts: 331
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline 		from what I understand the only situation where your job cannot be terminated for such things there is under certain gov't contracts.  Then yes.. they really can't fire you unless you are serving a prison sentence.  I highly doubt most of the French population falls under that category.


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RE: Are the French lazy? - 4/4/2006 5:01:07 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		The situation in France is a lot different than here. There may be some difficulty firing someone here, but nothing compared to France, and their unions are far more powerful than any here.
 
As stated on cnn.com...: "Under current law, merit in the workplace has little sway. Workers cannot be easily or inexpensively fired......" http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/03/28/france.protests/index.html

Another pair of link to some facts:

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/03/27/france.job.law.reut/index.html

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/mar2006/gb20060321_896473.htm


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RE: Are the French lazy? - 4/4/2006 5:14:00 PM   
Moloch


Posts: 1090
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Status: offline 		Damnit, Im trying to mock the french do you people have to ruin it?!   

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RE: Are the French lazy? - 4/4/2006 5:20:06 PM   
terryuk


Posts: 11
Joined: 3/25/2005
Status: offline 		An appropriate time for a nationality joke...

An exhausted American traveller boards a train....
The only seat available on the train was directly adjacent to a well dressed middle aged French woman and the seat was being used by her dog. The weary traveler asked, "Ma'am, please move your dog. I need that seat." The French woman looked down her nose at the American, sniffed and said, You Americans. Your are such a rude class of people. Can't you see my little FiFi is using that seat?"
The American walked away, determined to find a place to rest, but after another trip down to the end of the train, found himself again facing the woman with the dog. Again he asked, "Please, lady. May I sit there?". I'm very tired." The French woman wrinkled her nose and snorted "You Americans! Not only are you rude, you are also arrogant....Imagine!"
The American didn't say anything else, he leaned over, picked up the dog, tossed it out the window of the train and sat down in the empty seat. The woman shrieked and railed, and demanded that someone defend her honor and chastise the American.
An English man sitting across the aisle spoke up indignantly "You know,sir, you Americans do seem to have a penchant for doing the wrong thing. You eat holding the fork in the wrong hand. You drive your autos on the wrong side of the road. And now, Sir, you've thrown the wrong bitch out the window."

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RE: Are the French lazy? - 4/4/2006 5:26:31 PM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloch

Damnit, Im trying to mock the french do you people have to ruin it?!   


We'll see to it that you get some freedom fries for your efforts lol.

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RE: Are the French lazy? - 4/4/2006 5:26:44 PM   
kiska


Posts: 160
Joined: 11/17/2005
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		omg

rofl

I usually dont like nationality jokes but that one was pretty funny ... Made me smile after 3 straight hours of studying. Thank you.

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RE: Are the French lazy? - 4/4/2006 7:50:14 PM   
Evanesce


Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

You have to show "just cause" for the termination.


No you don't.  In fact, very few employers are restricted to "just cause" terminations.  The only time an employer is required to show "just cause" for a termination is if their employee handbook states it as such (and goes on to define what constitutes "just cause"), or they're operating under a collective bargaining agreement which restricts terminations to specific reasons.
 
You stated, "any well-run corporation will have an employee manual that spells out, in detail, policies and procedures and exactly what you can be terminated for."  This was actually true about 20 years ago, but more and more, employers are being advised by legal counsel to minimize their employee handbooks as much as possible, because that handbook/manual CAN be viewed and interpreted as a contract - even when it says the precise opposite in bold print on the front page.  The less you put in writing, the less ammunition an employee has should they try to sue.
 
You also stated, "You have to have a signed document that the employee read and understood the policies and procedures and agrees to abide by them."  While this is certainly good policy, and most employers who have employee handbooks do get signed statements from the employees saying they have received and read the handbook, it's not required by law.

The vast majority of states in this country (the U.S.) are considered to be "at will" states - meaning an employer may terminate an employee at any time, for any reason, with or without cause or notice. 

< Message edited by Evanesce -- 4/4/2006 7:51:57 PM >

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RE: Are the French lazy? - 4/5/2006 3:51:24 AM   
rivenmoon


Posts: 330
Joined: 6/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Untill today, I did not know that France had a law that told employers that they were not allowed to fire an employee under any circumstances including tardiness, absentisim, theft, and shooting the birdy at the boss. It looks like France figured out that this policy is not going over very well for businesses. Now that the law is being changed, look at all the lazy ass people protesting saying how evil it should be for an employer to fire people. Are they really so lazy to work that they need a law that says they can never be fired upon being hired? Atleast they aren't being lazy about rioting.


This may take time and some serious research -especially around the countryside - am willing to undertake this journey with sponsorship and shall return with the statistics CHEERS

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