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RE: How "imprintable" are you? - 4/17/2010 7:33:12 AM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jbcurious
I´ve actually taken flack from people for being so open to a partners likes and dislikes.



I have too. When I was younger getting flack from well meaning people about it made me think it was bad to put my partner first all the time and so that made me try to do things differently. Now I don't care what others think...it makes me happy to do what my man wants, and like what he likes, so to heck with anyone else. If I feel like sitting at his feet and gazing adoringly up at him when we're home or stroking his ego with some well placed and true comments then go me! I know I get from him a return on my investment and he adores me as well. We just show it differently. It's the height of freedom to be able to do what I want now and not be afraid of what other say or think.

(in reply to jbcurious)
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RE: How "imprintable" are you? - 4/17/2010 7:38:36 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShoreBound149

Everyone is imprintable. 




Agreed!.... People talk about individuality... well... exactly what is that. Are those actually your values or did they come from mommy and daddy? To me it doesn't matter where the values, opinions etc etc etc originate from. That in of itself doesn't dictate individuality. What does in my view is the choice and decision that it is "MY" choice to have those values, opinions etc etc!!! In short.. .taking responsibility for those very things.

A quote from Kyra in another thread:
quote:

A couple weeks ago, I realized that I have internalized his opinions, thoughts, expectations, etc to the point where I don't know what is his and what is mine. Are my thoughts and opinions (especially in regards to relationships and the lifestyle) his that I have internalized or mine? I can't imagine doing something different than the way he would want it done.


As Kyra state she wish she taken alittle more time to state her thougths in the above words. For it wasn't prefectly clear. In short she was talking about that she doesn't know which thoughts orginated with her or with me... but none-the less.. she is not stating she isn't responsibile for those very values, thoughts and opinions etc. In fact.. in my world.. and with the process of internalization of slavehood that I promote... Self-Responsbility and Self-Identification are absolute foundations required to be successful in the dynamic I live.

There seems to be a perception that the slave becomes an imprinted carbon copy of the Master in all ways but image. This to me is foolhardy and very different than my approach. In fact... The path of slavehood of my house is about becoming intimately understanding and actualizing their own individuality that they self-identify as and BEING responsible for it!

Now as far as the OP... to me the truth of it is that there is cross imprinting. In other words... I affect her and she affects me. I believe that this affect is rather important for a growing and healthy relationship.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to ShoreBound149)
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RE: How "imprintable" are you? - 4/17/2010 7:41:07 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		I'm not a baby goose freshly hatched - but, I don't cook roast lamb with mint sauce for Sir because he doesn't like it.
Imprinting to me in this context sounds like a fancy way of saying you are taking an interest in his likes, and not blugeoning him with yours.
Sounds like a vanilla relationship to me.

when i was married i folded the hubbys socks a certain way because that was the way he liked them, and i didn't care. Imprinted? No, just considerate and accommodating.
I learn something from every relationship, I accommodate to every relationship to a greater or lesser degree. Since I am submissive, i probably change behaviours more than the average person, but that still doesn't make me imprinted - which implies that once imprinted there is no other course.

edited for spelling.

< Message edited by kiwisub12 -- 4/17/2010 7:42:16 AM >

(in reply to jbcurious)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: How "imprintable" are you? - 4/17/2010 7:53:52 AM   
jbcurious


Posts: 717
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: ShoreBound149

Everyone is imprintable. 




Agreed!.... People talk about individuality... well... exactly what is that. Are those actually your values or did they come from mommy and daddy? To me it doesn't matter where the values, opinions etc etc etc originate from. That in of itself doesn't dictate individuality. What does in my view is the choice and decision that it is "MY" choice to have those values, opinions etc etc!!! In short.. .taking responsibility for those very things.

A quote from Kyra in another thread:
quote:

A couple weeks ago, I realized that I have internalized his opinions, thoughts, expectations, etc to the point where I don't know what is his and what is mine. Are my thoughts and opinions (especially in regards to relationships and the lifestyle) his that I have internalized or mine? I can't imagine doing something different than the way he would want it done.


As Kyra state she wish she taken alittle more time to state her thougths in the above words. For it wasn't prefectly clear. In short she was talking about that she doesn't know which thoughts orginated with her or with me... but none-the less.. she is not stating she isn't responsibile for those very values, thoughts and opinions etc. In fact.. in my world.. and with the process of internalization of slavehood that I promote... Self-Responsbility and Self-Identification are absolute foundations required to be successful in the dynamic I live.

There seems to be a perception that the slave becomes an imprinted carbon copy of the Master in all ways but image. This to me is foolhardy and very different than my approach. In fact... The path of slavehood of my house is about becoming intimately understanding and actualizing their own individuality that they self-identify as and BEING responsible for it!

Now as far as the OP... to me the truth of it is that there is cross imprinting. In other words... I affect her and she affects me. I believe that this affect is rather important for a growing and healthy relationship.



I´m loving hearing all of this...  You have no idea how reassuring it is to have people who reinforce the ideas that have been running around in my head about what a relationship needs to be for it to work for me and to see those things in action and working.

It´s a bit like when I moved to Ibiza....  I had spent so many years feeling like there was something wrong with me and my ideas and views of personal freedom and acceptance of others choices... and when I came here, it´s the way most people think and feel...  I feel normal here.


_____________________________

'Smile... it's the second best thing to do with your lips.'


I have an explosive personality...


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: How "imprintable" are you? - 4/17/2010 10:48:34 AM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		i'm pretty "imprintable" - it comes from that strong need to please. i fairly quickly pick up on the things that he likes, and that he wants me to know in order to please him, and in short order i do lose track of what is really "me," which for the most part is a good thing, but i have to be careful.

As i've become older in this i realize the value of maintaining a separate space in my head that is "me" - yoga, and pilates, and reading greatly help with this. And it also is healthy for me to have something to do that is separate from him, such as volunteer outside the home, or whatever. So i do ask potential Owners if they would allow me to do something like that - most of them agree. i think there is balance in everything, and balance needs to be maintained in a relationship. i have disciplined myself to do this.

As others have said, it's more about being something better together than you are separately. If when you're together the sum of the two doesn't add up to something wonderful, there needs to be an examination about needs and compatibility, in my assessment.

Lately i've been learning about cricket, and loving it. Hee hee!

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to jbcurious)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: How "imprintable" are you? - 4/17/2010 3:09:32 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		I want to share his interests, be more what he wants and less of what he doesn't, and I tend to pick up on moods quite easily. Kink-wise, I'm very flexible, and tend to focus more on the interaction with him, and his pleasure, than a specific activity, although there are some things I like more than others. I'm generally pretty malleable and open to new activities and new discoveries about myself. Even when I was the Domme, I enjoyed stretching myself in this way, exploring things I hadn't yet considered.

(in reply to jbcurious)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: How "imprintable" are you? - 4/17/2010 7:35:07 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jbcurious

My question to s/s is "How imprintable are you and how comfortable are you with it?"

If D/M's want to respond... How desirable is this?


JB... I definitely understand where you are coming from with this post.  I started one of my own, "Reflecting Him", a couple of years ago that touched on the same subject.

lol... In fact, I mention the exact Star Trek episode. 

I'm fairly "inprintable" and am comfortable with that.  I don't really see it as taking on his traits so much as it is him bringing out those traits already existent in me.  As I was a little more articulate in the post I wrote... here is what I said:

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

During a discussion in the thread, A Spin on "princess", comments there got me to thinking about some basic motivations behind a simple fantasy of mine.  Those ruminations lead to an area that I've not heard talked about much with regard to D/s, so I thought it might be interesting to see how others felt about them or if it is something that even touched or touches their search for a partner at all.

In a thread I started last year, On Service... (which is in fact the very thread that sparked the conversation between FirmhandKY and I that I mention in the "princess" thread), I made the following observation:

quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

Beyond these common ideas of service there is one type that may be universally understood, but I believe is often forgotten or at least not spoken of frequently. The service that I’m referring to is the kind of service that one thinks about a Knight giving his king... it is fealty.  The desire to be in the presence of someone who embodies the essence of all that you hold dear in humanity.  To be on bended knee (or knees) pledging all that you are in adoration.  If you look up “fealty” in a thesaurus, you get the synonyms of allegiance, adherence, ardor, constancy, dedication, deference, devotion, duty, faithfulness, fidelity, homage, honor, loyalty, obedience, obligation, and piety.  To me, those words describe the ultimate service... the ultimate submission... the ultimate turn-on.


The sentence that I have bolded above is really the key to my thoughts here.  Please bear with me as I try to express my ideas in a comprehensive fashion.

I am a very adaptable person.  I am just as comfortable wearing blue jeans and wielding a hammer to build a house as I am in wearing a cocktail dress and wielding a glass of wine to build business relationships.  I enjoy a great variety of things in life and a great variety of situations.  I don't say this to make myself out to be unique... I believe most people are just as adaptable.

This adaptability extends also to the type of person I am with, but it also seems to go a bit deeper.  When it comes to a prospective partner, it is more than simply enjoying his company... I personally change to more closely match the kind of person he is.  This change is not an affectation consciously adopted with the idea of making myself more attractive to him, but his presence naturally brings out in me different aspects of my personality that are complimentary to his own.

Years ago there was a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode by the name of The Perfect Mate.  In it, there was a woman who had from birth been groomed to be a political gift to a leader of another world.  Her uniqueness was that she had the empathic ability to flawlessly and permanently change to become the perfect mate to whatever man she finally "imprinted" on... an ability that was referred to as her being a metamorph.

In that episode she made the following comments:

quote:


I wish I could convey to you what it's like to be a metamorph... to feel the inner strength of someone... to realize that being with him is opening your mind and heart to endless new possibilities... to hear yourself say: I like myself when I am with him.

For a metamorph, there is no greater pleasure... and no greater wish than to bond with that kind of mate...

This sentiment resonates deeply within me.  It describes the feelings behind the desire I mention above... the desire to be in the presence of someone who embodies the essence of all that you hold dear in humanity.

While I am adroit in my ability to adapt to and enjoy many different situations and personalities, there are of course my own personal preferences.  In my search for a dominant, I looked for those traits that most appealed to me because, in the end, I wanted to say, "I like myself when I am with him."


After having been with Firm for almost four years now, I'm happy to say I do like myself with him. 




< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 4/17/2010 7:37:53 PM >

(in reply to jbcurious)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: How "imprintable" are you? - 4/17/2010 8:25:27 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Carol and I are well familiar with that particular episode. It, in fact, was a huge positive for her. The "empathic metamorph" gave Carol a different and altogether much more positive view of herself. This is essentially not only how Carol and I are, but also what I would want out of a "slave".

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to jbcurious)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: How "imprintable" are you? - 4/17/2010 8:59:24 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Did you ever see that Star Trek episode where Captain Picard was ridiculed by a sub after she drove three hours to meet him. He failed to mention that he was bald. she was really pissed.


Star Trek and CM'ers....What a hoot!

< Message edited by domiguy -- 4/17/2010 9:01:55 PM >

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: How "imprintable" are you? - 4/17/2010 9:37:48 PM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline 		Between the imprinting episode and the Klingon mating episode, there was a lot of Star Trek TNG stuff that got my juices stirring. Too bad I wasn't with someone who could appreciate that at the time. (Danged ex had me spend the last 10 years of our marriage celibate. He was a true sadist!)

_____________________________

"cooking is my kink"

Collared June 19, 2008
(uncollared 12/21/09 with his death. RIP my Santa)

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: How "imprintable" are you? - 4/18/2010 1:03:06 AM   
Malkinius


Posts: 1814
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings jb.....

I am going to agree with some things people have said so far and throw a nice bucket of ice water on a few others.

You are dealing with more than one dynamic here. You asked a question about one of them and most have answered as if you were asking the other. The two are related but not in ways most of them are thinking of or even know of. The two things are (as restated) how much can one person change another person, especially those who are of a submissive nature and second how much do couples change to please the other person. The first question is rather uni-directional and the second is bi-directional as both change.

The second one or the relationship change is well known. It happens to almost everyone in any sort of serious and/or emotional relationship with other people. Making someone else happy makes you happy so you do things to make them happy even if they are things you didn't want to do before and especially those things for which a change is no big deal. I.e., you don't care which way you do it so why not do it their way. There are a number of things both biological and psychological which have been researched rather heavily over the last few decades about this and I won't try to go over them here as this is really not what you were asking about. It does make for some interesting reading tho.

The first part and what I believe you were asking about is how much is a submissive imprintable by another person to force a change on them from the outside. Many here will say they are to a very small extent. This means one of two things. Either their dominant isn't very good at what they do or they don't see what all has happened to them. Most often it is some of both. Any one can be changed under the right set of circumstances. Someone will be change by being in an unequal power dynamic. The question is how much and how long those changes will last.

Imprintable can mean two things. The first is the ducking type of "mama" imprinting. The second is changing internal thinking or imprinting new ideas and ways of doing things over older ones. Both of those things happen in a D/s, M/s or O/p relationship. How deliberately they happen is the real question. One of the techniques of enslavement is to change how the slave thinks. You imprint new ideas and patterns over the old. People who are towards the submissive end of the D/S scale can be easier to imprint than those who are not because they are more likely to want to accept the imprint to please the other person. Yes, it becomes a self-reinforcing feedback loop.

The reasons for this are both psychological and biological. The psychological gets pretty well covered here and in most BDSM places. So does imprinting by force and abuse. That usually is covered in other places. Read up on the Stockholm Syndrome for an extreme example of it. I will note that any one who trys to enslave someone by trying to induce a Stockholm Syndrome will fail in the long run. It breaks down very quickly once the victim is away from their captor. It also just doesn't work if you are trying to enslave, not just have a acquiescent victim. The actual mechanism that is more biologically appropriate is something called Capture Bonding. This is the old capture a woman from another tribe and make her a part of the new tribe ancient form of human interaction. This concept describes how something which has been observed to make a captive become a willing member of the new group actually functions. It has a much deeper effect and is much longer lasting than the Stockholm Syndrome. It also makes very interesting reading.

Behind both all of these things lies a common mechanism. They all, to one extent or another, raise the levels of dopamine and serotonin. Those two neuro chemicals together induce a faster and stronger transmission of short term memory to long term memory. They also tag the memory with a higher importance factor so it stays longer and exerts a stronger influence over your thoughts and actions. If, and there is, a method of deliberate enhancement of those chemicals occurs with proper meme reinforcement, you have imprinting of new information over old that is very hard to resist. Isn't biology wonderful for taking the romance out of things? <grins>

So, what it all comes down to is yes, submissive people are easier to imprint because they work at reinforcing them imprinting process and yes, it is all based on naturally occurring things that humans have been doing since probably before we were human.When done deliberately it can be called, in our context, enslavement. When done without consent and a willing partner you can get abuse, brainwashing and the Stockholm Syndrome among other bad things. There are a few other things I just found out from talking to a neurobiologist about some of these things that both confirm some of my suppositions and lead into new avenues of research. The above I am now very confident of its veracity. The rest will wait for further information and confirmation.

Be well.....

Malkinius


_____________________________

A questioner by inclination...An Auctioneer for the fun of it
http://www.HouseMalkinius.com    The goal is community.

(in reply to jbcurious)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: How "imprintable" are you? - 4/18/2010 1:22:23 AM   
jbcurious


Posts: 717
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline 		That is almost scary... Lol...I connected with the concept so strongly. For me it truly is about finding the partner who brings out the person in me that I really like... In the past I've ended relationships because I didn't like the person I was when I was with him...and there is no better feeling then being with the person who brings out the best you.

I'm so happy that you've found that.

_____________________________

'Smile... it's the second best thing to do with your lips.'


I have an explosive personality...


(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: How "imprintable" are you? - 4/18/2010 2:01:08 AM   
jbcurious


Posts: 717
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Did you ever see that Star Trek episode where Captain Picard was ridiculed by a sub after she drove three hours to meet him. He failed to mention that he was bald. she was really pissed.


Star Trek and CM'ers....What a hoot!


Bald or not...JeanLuc is hot... Captain Kirk on the other hand...yeah, he could be ridiculed.

_____________________________

'Smile... it's the second best thing to do with your lips.'


I have an explosive personality...


(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: How "imprintable" are you? - 4/18/2010 2:04:22 AM   
jbcurious


Posts: 717
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sublizzie

Between the imprinting episode and the Klingon mating episode, there was a lot of Star Trek TNG stuff that got my juices stirring. Too bad I wasn't with someone who could appreciate that at the time. (Danged ex had me spend the last 10 years of our marriage celibate. He was a true sadist!)


That's beyond sadistic...thats downright inhumane!!!

_____________________________

'Smile... it's the second best thing to do with your lips.'


I have an explosive personality...


(in reply to sublizzie)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: How "imprintable" are you? - 4/18/2010 3:55:22 AM   
jbcurious


Posts: 717
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline 		I appreciate all the input on this thread...to have an idea... but being unable to put it into words can be so frustrating...so bouncing it around on the forums helps me to find the words I need to verbalize the concept.

The quote that TreasureKY provided from the "Metemorph" (that sounds weird...but the writer obviously was clued in) is the best description of what submission means to me. To be with someone who inspires trust and confidence and has the ability to bring out the person within me that truly makes me happy and proud to be me. I admit I have a difficult time being that person on my own...I'm too defensive... and pride as well as other peoples expectations often get in the way.

I am a huge supporter of women being strong and independent, of having the right to choose the manner in which they live their lives and I strongly support a woman's right to be in charge.

But again it is a choice...and while I can be in charge, my choice is to be submissive to a man who inspires me.

_____________________________

'Smile... it's the second best thing to do with your lips.'


I have an explosive personality...


(in reply to jbcurious)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: How "imprintable" are you? - 4/18/2010 7:40:56 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		~fast reply~
Another thought I had regarding this topic... I don't actually believe that Carol is any more malleable than me. I have imprinted and continue to imprint on her also. I have no idea which of my thoughts, feelings, etc. originated in her head and which in mine and I could care even less. I have some friends who like to ask me, "Yeah, but if it weren't for Carol, then what would you want/feel/think/etc.?" That sort of question gets dumbfounded looks from me -- waddayamean "without carol" and why would I want to even speculate on such a ridiculous alternate universe theory?

I consider such malleability to be highly beneficial to the maintenance of a long-term relationship. Nor do I think it has much to do with being dominant or being submissive. I make the decisions in our marriage, sure. But you can damned well bet that the things which make Carol happy make ME happy and therefor color my decisions heavily.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to jbcurious)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: How "imprintable" are you? - 4/18/2010 8:23:19 AM   
afkarr


Posts: 328
Joined: 1/13/2010
Status: offline 		Ever see people who have been married for decades? If the relationship was good, chances are they are "in tune" with one another, they can finish sentecnes and thoughts for each, gauge a mood by the merest expression, and often seem like one entity. The two peas in a pod syndrome. I beleive it has more to do with living with someone for an extended period of time, you simply unconsciously function in harmony, cueing in on each others body language, expression, verbal inflection, small habits. It flows naturally, without thought. It's a closeness born of time, not neccessarily "imprintability" or "malleability" or a power dynamic.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: How "imprintable" are you? - 4/18/2010 8:35:51 AM   
petmonkey


Posts: 1053
Joined: 7/7/2009
Status: offline 		Honestly, in self-reflection, it really depends on the Dom/me i'm with at the time.  i certainly pick up phrases and gestures of people i admire and follow. i don't always find myself eventually liking their likes or agreeing with their opinions of the world.  i do find myself taking a great interest in understanding their likes and opinions though, because i like Them. This process might appear similar to an egocentric, but they'd be mistaken.

Edit to replace a word


< Message edited by petmonkey -- 4/18/2010 9:14:01 AM >

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Be excellent to each other.


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