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Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 5:10:11 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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What the heck took the SEC so long?

Well, I guess late is better than never.

Goldman Sachs, the private banks that
runs (and has ruined) the US economy,
has finally been formally charged with
securities fraud.

Their crime: Creating garbage securities,
packaging them like gold, and then lying
about their value.

In the normal world, this would be called
a "criminal enterprise."

On Wall Street and in Washington DC
it's called "a bank too big to fail."/snip
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RE: Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 6:29:32 AM   
rulemylife


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Status: offline 		Pahunk, you do realize their is another thread that was posted on Friday about this?

Oh yeah, you must since you made 10 or 12 posts on it.

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RE: Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 6:30:53 AM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		Dont confuse hunk with facts, even if they are true.

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RE: Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 6:38:02 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Pahunk, you do realize their is another thread that was posted on Friday about this?

Oh yeah, you must since you made 10 or 12 posts on it.


Not with Matt Tablisi it wasn't

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RE: Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 6:58:46 AM   
ThatDaveGuy69


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Status: offline 		I can tell you exactly why it took the SEC so long:
1) The previous administration created an environment of "hands-off" in terms of even the most basic government oversight/regulation. Get over it.
But even more important:
2) The SEC has an enormous power - and responsibility - when it comes to investigations. Before they launch into any action they make damn-sure they know where they're going. Even the rumor of an investigation can literally ruin a company. So before they file anything in a court, they investigate every aspect and make sure their charges will stand up.

Here it is in a nutshell:
Goldman Sachs packaged sub-pime mortgages for re-sale. Happens all the time. They then used a 3rd-party company to put their seal of approval on the deal. Again, this happens all the time. GS used another company to assemble the deals and this company bought insurance from GS in case the deals tanked. The suit charges that GS failed to disclose any of this to the buyers and the 3rd-party company that OK'd the deal.

~Dave

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RE: Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 7:08:53 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		I wonder how it stacks up against the many and varied aspects of the conspiracy theory (that Goldman Sachs runs the world or some such) for a government agency (which is operated by and for Goldman Sachs according to the theory) to be doing this to them?

To argue it is "just a show" for the people is difficult; stock values dropped dramatically on the news, which isnt something "the grid" should normally desire - though I'm sure the "intellectually curious and imaginative" will account for this in some fashion after a bit of "research", showing how the loss in value fulfils some nefarious plan "they" have, that likely benefits "the Queen" (Elizabeth II - other Queens are available).

E

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RE: Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 7:15:08 AM   
ThatDaveGuy69


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Status: offline 		Careful with that kind of talk, LadyEllen - you wouldn't want to get dissappeared...
(Cue evil-sounding music, thunder, maniacal laughter)

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RE: Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 7:16:40 AM   
Sanity


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Interesting timing. Probably pure coincidence though, that these charges against Goldman should come on the heels of Obama telling the country that we'll suffer a fresh crisis without new financial rules.




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RE: Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 7:20:27 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		Sanity - are you seriously still arguing that deregulation, such as we have experienced and which has been clearly identified as playing a substantial and key role in the disaster, is a good thing and that therefore no enhanced regime of regulation should follow as a means of preventing a repeat of the same scenario?

E

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RE: Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 9:01:10 AM   
Sanity


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No, your bogus strawman argument doesn't represent my position at all.

What I am trying to illuminate is that the president is trying to use fear of economic collapse combined with this high profile case to push his personal agenda for Wall Street through Congress.

Just any regulation won't do, and what experience does this president have with such affairs? And why the fear mongering... why does everything have to be rushed through like this in a panic.


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RE: Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 9:10:11 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		Do you dispute that deregulation played a substantial and key part in the disaster?

Do you argue that the disaster as it was, let alone the disaster as it could have been, is not something to be fearful of as regards a repeat?

Do you believe that business as normal ought to be continued without any regard to taking steps in as timely a manner as is possible, taking the need for serious appraisal into account?

Do you believe that Obama will determine the specifics of any new regulation or do you feel that he may well set the overall framework of objectives and leave the drafting of specifics to those with specific expertise before reviewing their work with other experts prior to introduction as to their effect vs the objectives?

What is Obama's personal agenda for Wall Street I wonder? Is this reported anywhere such that we might all know it?

E

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RE: Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 9:17:19 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I withdraw my post.

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RE: Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 9:35:57 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

why does everything have to be rushed through like this in a panic.


I'm guessing the same reason the Bush administration did it.

Like it or not (and I don't), we are (and have been for a while) firmly in the Age of Political Theater.

And as long as people lap it up, politicians will continue to serve it.

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RE: Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 9:44:14 AM   
Sanity


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You know, immediately after hitting the "OK" button I knew what the answer would  be.  


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

why does everything have to be rushed through like this in a panic.


I'm guessing the same reason the Bush administration did it.

Like it or not (and I don't), we are (and have been for a while) firmly in the Age of Political Theater.

And as long as people lap it up, politicians will continue to serve it.


< Message edited by Sanity -- 4/18/2010 9:46:55 AM >

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RE: Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 9:50:25 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		People also complain continually, year after year, that Congress is too slow, that Congress doesn't do anything.

And at the same time, complain "What's the rush?"

In both cases, they're repeating the opposition sound bites.


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RE: Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 10:13:14 AM   
brainiacsub


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


No, your bogus strawman argument doesn't represent my position at all.

What I am trying to illuminate is that the president is trying to use fear of economic collapse combined with this high profile case to push his personal agenda for Wall Street through Congress.

Just any regulation won't do, and what experience does this president have with such affairs? And why the fear mongering... why does everything have to be rushed through like this in a panic.



Thomas, in another thread you tried to argue with me that it was the loans themselves, and not the shit that Goldman did that caused the financial collapse. This activity by Goldman was the topic of the Frontline special I gave you a link to and asked you to watch. AIG was doing the same thing, as was Lehman, Bear Stearns, JP Morgan and Citicorp. The Republican Congress was warned in the 90s that this activity would collapse the financial sector given the right circumstances. You made no effort to try and understand this. Once again, this is not about the regulation or its timing, this is about your hated for Obama. You have been given all the information you needed from me and others to connect the dots, but you insist on connecting them through Obama. His agenda is the nation's agenda and if Greenspan and others had listened to Brooksley Born in the 90s we wouldn't be talking about this now.


< Message edited by brainiacsub -- 4/18/2010 10:32:59 AM >

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RE: Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 11:13:13 AM   
brainiacsub


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Do you dispute that deregulation played a substantial and key part in the disaster?

Do you argue that the disaster as it was, let alone the disaster as it could have been, is not something to be fearful of as regards a repeat?

Do you believe that business as normal ought to be continued without any regard to taking steps in as timely a manner as is possible, taking the need for serious appraisal into account?

Do you believe that Obama will determine the specifics of any new regulation or do you feel that he may well set the overall framework of objectives and leave the drafting of specifics to those with specific expertise before reviewing their work with other experts prior to introduction as to their effect vs the objectives?

What is Obama's personal agenda for Wall Street I wonder? Is this reported anywhere such that we might all know it?

E

E,

He is absolutely convinced that Obama and his ilk, who wanted to give loans to poor people, is what caused this crisis. He listens to right-wing fear mongers who spew this bullshit about Wall Street regulation being code for Obama's Marxist agenda to take over the banks. I don't think any facts or reason to the contrary will change his mind.

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RE: Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 11:14:09 AM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		Poor people did NOT cause this crises. 

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RE: Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 11:16:08 AM   
brainiacsub


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From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Then we agree.

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RE: Govt by Goldman Sachs - 4/18/2010 11:21:14 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		more bonuses for GOLDMAN!  gag me

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article7100961.ece

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