Hate speech in the USA (Full Version)

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TheHeretic -> Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 5:32:17 PM)

Some education for those who live in countries where they lock you up, or fine you for hate speech.

This is how we do it in a modern, enlightened society. Tell your rulers.

White supremacist rally at L.A. City Hall draws violent counter-protest

Please keep in mind that actual acts of violence will get your ass arrested, but the answer to speech used badly, is more speech.




Elisabella -> RE: Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 5:38:33 PM)

I hope they are arrested for assault and sentenced to jail.

It's kind of bad when a mob of fuckheads is actually able to make nazis look respectable in comparison.




RainingPain -> RE: Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 5:41:06 PM)

Hate speech is speech. Don't like what you hear? It's called the sound of freedom.




Jeffff -> RE: Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 5:41:08 PM)

Exactly.

I would like to see things like this just ignored. I know it's not really possible, but how cool would it be to see 40 assholes chanting to themselves while people walk around them as if they weren't there.




LadyEllen -> RE: Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 5:53:46 PM)

I'm confused as to why such an event might fall foul of "hate speech laws"? We have them all the time. There is only a problem if someone incites hatred or violence, or (obviously) commits violence.

E




slvemike4u -> RE: Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 6:55:29 PM)

We have laws on the books against the same things Lady E....though some seem to misunderstand this.Any speech that can be proven to incite or can reasonably be assumed to have incited some violent act is prosecutable.But these ass wipes aren't always so obliging ...as a result they speak in a sort of code at times.Any way you look at it ...it's a hard charge, in most circumstances, to prove.




Jack45 -> RE: Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 7:57:21 PM)

The blacks and mexicans who beat, cut, stomped, etc the 2 white men were NOT arrested per the LA TIMES blog and the Boston Globe. The only arrests of the blacks and mexicans was when they were throwing bricks and bottles over the heads of the cops at the Nazis in the parking lot who were trying to get into their vehicles.

Just like Obama's Justice Dept dropping the case of voter intimidation against the New Black Panther Part in PA, double standard.
Just like Holder on the new Hate Crimes law:
Video: US Attorney General Eric Holder Admits–No Equal Protection For Whites, Christians
http://blip.tv/play/AYGQ1R2Pgjo

Peter Bradley,June 2009, Cal State’s Brian Levin And The Case Of The “Hate Crime” That Wasn’t. (Guess Why Not)
quote:

two weeks before the von Brunn shootings, The San Jose Mercury News ran a short article about a similar crime that was just as deadly as the Holocaust Museum incident.

The killers were motivated by the same type of hatred and extremism.

Yet, for some strange reason, the murder has attracted almost no attention or outrage.

In July 2007, Michael Wills, a white man, was shot and killed by two members of Your Black Muslim Bakery. As the name suggests, the bakery was a racial-nationalist outfit with ties to the Nation of Islam (the store even displayed a prominent picture of NOI founder Elijah Muhammed). Yusuf Bey IV, the leader of the now-defunct bakery, and Antoine Mackey, one of Bey's followers, were charged with shooting Wills in the head with an assault rifle.

The Mercury News article leaves no doubt as to the racial motive of the murder:

"Devaughndre Broussard, another Bey IV follower who has admitted to killing journalist Chauncey Bailey, told a prosecutor in March that Bey IV and Mackey bragged they killed Wills because of his race. The two saw him walking in North Oakland as they were discussing a string of racially motivated murders in the 1970s known as the Zebra killings.

 

“'They was laughing about and joking about,' Broussard said of Bey IV and Mackey.

 

“Mackey 'said he seen the white dude walking down the path ... then he shot him,' Broussard added.

 

“Bey IV later said, ‘We got a devil. White people are devils,’ according to Broussard's statement.

 

“Then Broussard said Bey IV talked about ‘a devil mentality. A black man can be a devil if he's against his people.’ Bey IV and his late father, bakery founder Yusuf Bey, have often, while preaching, referred to white people as ‘devils.’ And in telephone calls recorded from the Santa Rita Jail in Dublin and obtained by the Chauncey Bailey Project, Bey IV often made similar statements, referring to ‘white and Jew devils’ and ‘media devils’ whom he claims are trying to destroy him."[Former bakery leader accused of saying 'white people are devils' after 2007 killing, By Josh Richman and Thomas, May 26, 2009]

An open and shut case of a racially-motivated hate crime? Think again. Prosecutors are not seeking a hate crime charge against Bey IV and Mackey.

And that decision meets with the approval of those who direct race policy in America. The Mercury News article continues:

"Prosecutors tend to be very hesitant to charge hate crime cases "... because they're really, really hard to prove: You have to prove the offender's motive beyond a reasonable doubt," explained Associate Professor Phyllis Gerstenfeld,  a ‘hate-crime expert’ who chairs the criminal justice program at Cal State, Stanislaus. ‘Hate crimes are the only criminal acts that require you to prove motive beyond a reasonable doubt... and we can't read people's minds.’"

We can’t? Prosecutors had no problems reading the minds of the James Byrd and Matthew Shepherd killers. Nor are they likely to have much problem peering into von Brunn's thought process.

According to the Mercury News, a certain "civil rights attorney" agrees that hate crime charges do not make sense in this particular case.

He said:

"Why go through having to interject something that now has to be proven to a particular standard?  It can be highly appropriate for (prosecutors) tactically to avoid overburdening the jury with additional items. Sometimes the cleanest, simplest case is the best."

The person making these remarks: none other than Cal State San Bernadino’s Brian Levin—who had no problem lecturing us about the threat posed by "an old bigoted white man" only weeks later.

Unlike "civil rights" attorneys, the distraught Wills family wants to pursue a hate crime charge. According to Patrick Wills, younger brother of the victim:

"Everybody knows the only reason (Michael Wills) was shot was because he was white. So I don't see any reason why that (hate crime enhancement) should not be part of the charges. For it to not to be there is horrible."

Horrible or not, the decision not to pursue hate crime charges against the killers of Wills is not surprising given the race of the victim and the shooters.

But Your Black Muslim Bakery has a long history of racial violence that leaves von Brunn in the shade. Though held up as a model of black self sufficiency, the bakery was linked to widespread physical and sexual abuse, intimidation, welfare fraud, and murder. Bey IV and Mackey also had good reason to joke about the Zebra Killings as some of the killers—all black Muslims—were connected to the bakery according to Clark Howard, author of Zebra, the definitive book on the murders.

The Zebra Killings occurred in the San Francisco bay area between 1972 and 1974. Though seldom discussed, they are the worst case of racially-motivated serial murder in U.S. history. Carried out by black Muslims who went looking to kill "white devils", the attacks left up to 71 people dead and many injured.

Bey IV and Mackey were apparently looking to add to this legacy.

The late Sam Francis used to note that some hate crimes are more equal than others. The different reactions to the von Brunn and Your Black Muslim Bakery shootings prove that nothing has changed.

When the hate crimes bill is debated in the Senate you can be sure the names Matthew Shepard, James Byrd, James von Brunn and Stephen Johns, the black guard killed in the Holocaust Museum shooting, will be highlighted.

You can also be sure that the names Michael Wills, Yusuf Bey IV and Antoine Mackey will never be mentioned.

The hate crimes bill, if passed, will certainly stifle free speech and strengthen the thought police. It will also be yet another exercise in unequal and selective justice.





slvemike4u -> RE: Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 8:55:19 PM)

Are you really trying to make a case for discrimination against whites since Obama has taken office. So in your eyes he is one kick ass President eh?
He took the oath and almost instantaneously he whipped all the forces of the American govt. into his racist views..including the Justice Department and convinced all of the many individuals who administer and work at these departments to join him in his unholy prosecution of white people.
Can anyone actually be st---d enough to believe such a proposition.....Nah,it isn't possible....you must be joking.




TheHeretic -> RE: Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 8:59:36 PM)

Never underestimate the potential stupidity of your fellow humans, Mike. There are still people who believe the Bush II administration was competent enough to have pulled off a 9/11 conspiracy.




slvemike4u -> RE: Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 9:03:39 PM)

The gullibility is simply amazing ...one man takes an oath....and a whole govt falls in line behind him to pursue his nefarious goals....unfuckingbeleivable Rich.....just simply mind boggling.
Almost makes you long for the sanith of PA's cyphers.
What an ass wipe!




TheHeretic -> RE: Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 9:12:06 PM)

Mike, let's not go over the top, now. Hate crime laws were being applied in a totally hypocritical way under the previous admin. as well.





thornhappy -> RE: Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 9:12:53 PM)

I found the last story interesting; I tried to pull up the original and followups to the story, but the Merc charges for archive searches.

However, I found a ton of material about the guys involved over on Wiki, and shit they were a piece of work.  There were a large number of indictments against the men involved and the bakery operation, and it wouldn't surprise me that a hate crime prosecution wouldn't be bothered with.  I bet if it was a standalone crime it would've been done, especially with the recordings they had.  It all comes down to the prosecuting attorneys, and if they don't want to spend the time, they won't.  




slvemike4u -> RE: Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 9:20:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Mike, let's not go over the top, now. Hate crime laws were being applied in a totally hypocritical way under the previous admin. as well.


I'm not at this point discussing hate crime legislation....we can chew that one over at another time.
What I am referring to is Jack's insinuation that since a black man took the oath of office a well organised and highly sucessfull program of racial bias directed at the white man has been put in place.
Pure bullshit and completly irrational.




TheHeretic -> RE: Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 9:30:01 PM)

Thanks for the clarification, Mike. I think somebody has it way overblown, and backwards. Such tendencies were already in place, now we have a Chief Executive some would believe will be supportive of that.

I am reminded of a group of Black girls who attacked two white girls, used racial epithets during the attack, caused permanent injury, and got probation, without ever having the hate crime modifier applied. My Google is broken at the moment, but I'll see about adding a good link to that story..




slvemike4u -> RE: Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 9:37:58 PM)

I just don't see it that way...and atypical stories can be countered with other atypical stories.And a beleif,held by some that this President would be "supportive" of that is based on what exactly?The quite obvious fact that the man is black....so was it okay to assume that every white President actively supported and pushed a racist agenda while they were in office?
Sorry Rich on this one I'm sticking with asinine and bigotry itself to make such assumptions.
What a scared insecure mind would it take to sit at home and fear that black man in the Oval Office...if it wasn't so pathetic it would be funny.




TheHeretic -> RE: Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 9:51:15 PM)

You answered your own question, Mike. The belief is based on scared, insecure minds, sitting home.





slvemike4u -> RE: Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 9:53:13 PM)

Yeah...if I rant long enough I can usually find myself at an answer[:)]




Silence8 -> RE: Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 10:29:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

I hope they are arrested for assault and sentenced to jail.

It's kind of bad when a mob of fuckheads is actually able to make nazis look respectable in comparison.


Let them eat punches.

I don't advocate violence, but maybe -- devil's advocate here -- this'll cool down the white trash that mistakenly thinks it's the only group that knows how to 'bring it'. Coincidentally, The Daily Show made this same point a couple weeks ago -- it's like, eww, douche bag, you bring your registered gun to a protest, big man, except, oh wait, any dumbass can pull a fucking trigger, including my communist grandmother.




Silence8 -> RE: Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 10:30:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

I hope they are arrested for assault and sentenced to jail.

It's kind of bad when a mob of fuckheads is actually able to make nazis look respectable in comparison.


Let them eat punches.

I don't advocate violence, but maybe -- devil's advocate here -- this'll cool down the white trash that mistakenly thinks it's the only group that knows how to 'bring it'. Coincidentally, The Daily Show made this same point a couple weeks ago -- it's like, eww, douche bag, you bring your registered gun to a protest, big man, except, oh wait, any dumbass can pull a fucking trigger, including my communist grandmother.


My grandmother is not actually a communist.




popeye1250 -> RE: Hate speech in the USA (4/18/2010 10:52:46 PM)

This is what a free society does, let people no matter how objectionable have their say so everyone knows what they're all about.




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