RE: Icelandic Volcano

RE: Icelandic Volcano (Full Version)

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vincentML -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 12:07:22 PM)
quote: As far as I know volcanic and earthquake activity are NOT in strict cycles. Perhaps recurring would have been a more useful term. I stand corrected but my point is the same as Mercnbeth regarding "the folly of man's influence versus natural occurrences." But folly is too tame a term for it. Arrogance is closer to my liking. Nor do I come to this from a Biblical pov that man is acting god-like in his attempts to soothe Nature. We have been too well sheltered from the powerful violence of Nature, I think, to comprehend its awful majesty and our lack of impact.

Musicmystery -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 12:09:46 PM)
Apples and oranges. One is cumulative, the other is not. One can be prevented, the other cannot. What if anything we should do about it is a fair question for debate. To pretend these are parallel is not.

vincentML -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 12:15:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Apples and oranges. One is cumulative, the other is not. One can be prevented, the other cannot. What if anything we should do about it is a fair question for debate. To pretend these are parallel is not. Ah.... maybe. There's the rub. [:)]

Musicmystery -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 12:17:21 PM)
You are arguing that we (1) are experiencing global warming and also that (2) we aren't contributing to it? If so, you are the only person I know to hold that position. I'd love to see the science on that.

pyroaquatic -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 12:44:23 PM)
You do not know for a fact if the earthquakes will subside. No one does. This is 'random'... like flipping a coin one hundred times and getting tails. It is not due for a heads. Past flips do not dictate the future flips. There is still a 49.99999 percent chance for heads or tails. That 0.00001 percent is for when it lands on its ridge. There could be a pattern that arcs to the end of existence. We witness a tiny parcel of that pattern, see it as 'random' and pass on our little pieces of the puzzle to the next generation. Then we perish. We have incomplete information. Those tectonic plates grind harder than strippers. Random Patterns?

vincentML -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 12:49:44 PM)
All I am thinking is there is a good chance the current warming is a cyclic rebound from the Little Ice Age which in turn was preceded by the Medieval Warming. I have no real evidence to support my thought except the evident ipso facto climate alternations. But then there is no evidence to refute it as far as I know. There is evidence of long cycles. You can see it in the IPCC graph of the Vostok ice borings and you can also see that the rise in temperature precedes the rise in CO2 in the air bubbles. I have never seen an explanation of that phenomenon. But we have had this discussion before......

heartcream -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 1:00:06 PM)
Add to the mix the idea that the Earth is an individual in much the same way each and everyone of us is. Maybe the Earth is releasing something? Like how about if it was connected to Her emotions for example.

Rule -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 1:03:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML you can also see that the rise in temperature precedes the rise in CO2 in the air bubbles. If it is a slow rise in temperature, the oceans will take longer to warm up and outgassing of CO2 will follow the earlier rise in surface temperatures. (Just my speculation based on insufficient data.)

mnottertail -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 1:07:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartcream Add to the mix the idea that the Earth is an individual in much the same way each and everyone of us is. Maybe the Earth is releasing something? Like how about if it was connected to Her emotions for example. Are you suggesting this is Mother Earth's sphincter splatter?

vincentML -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 1:09:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 So much for "global warming" This ash cloud will cool things off quite a bit. And with all the tens of thousands of cancelled flights fuel prices will go down with all that jet fuel backing up in the system. If volcanic and earthquake activity are cyclic and the earth's magnetic pole shifts like a pendulum, where is the credibility in assuming a linear global warming? The Planet will do what the Planet will do, nor all your sons and daughters, nor all your cap and trade will change it. I am reminded of the king (?) who went down to the sea to command the tide to halt. How feeble are we that we are tossed about so easily while Earth laughs. I sound like Sunday morning. [:D] Are you suggesting that there is no global repercussions to pollution? That it doesn't matter what we do, the Planet will be just fine? If that's the case, let's just disband the EPA altogether. It costs too much and they aren't really doing anything productive. I don't think that's what I said, eyes. I think there are human repercussions to pollution. I don't doubt that foul air and chemical soaked water ways are unhealthy for humans, animals, and plants. I do not think the EPA is ineffectual in protecting living things in the short term and in limited locales. However, Earth was here 5000 million years before humans arrived. Got along without us before we got here... gonna get along without us after we are gone. Hubris to believe we can alter the planet.

vincentML -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 1:17:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML you can also see that the rise in temperature precedes the rise in CO2 in the air bubbles. If it is a slow rise in temperature, the oceans will take longer to warm up and outgassing of CO2 will follow the earlier rise in surface temperatures. (Just my speculation based on insufficient data.) A respectable hypothesis, Rule. However, I think the mechanism is more complicated, including the carbonate ion and maybe some micro organisms as well. Anyway, the graph is pretty dramatic. It is in the 2007 IPCC report and was featured in Al Gore's film. Edited after reflecting on your answer, Rule ..... if, as you speculate, there is a slow rise in temperature and the oceans warm up more slowly and then release CO2 .... it could not have been the CO2 that caused the warming in the first place during past eons. Of course, today many argue that industrial CO2 is causing the warming. There was no industrial CO2 during past eons. That is precisely my point.

pyroaquatic -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 1:19:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartcream Add to the mix the idea that the Earth is an individual in much the same way each and everyone of us is. Maybe the Earth is releasing something? Like how about if it was connected to Her emotions for example. We are nodes coexisting with a 5.9736 × 1024 kg node. Tectonic plates slip under other plates. There is pressure coming elsewhere: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/28/geothermal-explosion-highlights-a-downside-of-a-leading-alt-energy-source/ http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/01/geothermal_powe.php As you can see we need more energy (for some reason). We need alternative sources. Perhaps-and this is just a theory-Human Kind can't help but to screw around in dirt. Nature screws back harder.

heartcream -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 1:28:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Are you suggesting this is Mother Earth's sphincter splatter? I think it is Her saying, "Why do you have the cone when heartcream wants it so much more than you?" I think it is also Her saying "What does BCNU mean?" Quit erupting her Ron, you scoundrel!

heartcream -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 1:31:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic We are nodes coexisting with a 5.9736 × 1024 kg node. Tectonic plates slip under other plates. There is pressure coming elsewhere: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/28/geothermal-explosion-highlights-a-downside-of-a-leading-alt-energy-source/ http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/01/geothermal_powe.php As you can see we need more energy (for some reason). We need alternative sources. Perhaps-and this is just a theory-Human Kind can't help but to screw around in dirt. Nature screws back harder. Yeah for sure. Everyone not aligned with Her vision of Herself needs to gerr off! Mankind has been so ridiculously unconscious and dense promoting their stupid agenda that would be laughable if it wernt so farking damaging. Be gone Earth haters!

LaTigresse -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 1:32:22 PM)
Using fast reply. I think it is sublimely arrogant that human beings seem to think that, just because the planet is perfect place for us to exist, it now needs to stay the same. It evolved to the point it is now, and will continue to evolve. The reality is that, it may or may not continue to be an ideal place for human beings.

pyroaquatic -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 1:48:23 PM)
thank you heartcream, i was not sure if that was a 'crazy' idea or illogical thought process. LaTigresse, so do you or do you not believe Humans play a role in this Evolution? I had to read "I think it is sublimely arrogant that human beings seem to think that, just because the planet is perfect place for us to exist, it now needs to stay the same." twice. :D Perfect for us but not the environment?

DomKen -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 2:01:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: Did you just try and conflate the tiny little icelandic volcano to the krakatoa explosion? No. I only suggested it as a reference to see the impact of nature, versus man, in the case of Krakatoa. The information coming out of Iceland indicates this eruption will not be climate changing because the ash plume did not reach the height where it would have a global impact. As of now, it hasn't reached the level of the 1991 Mt. Pinatubo eruption let alone Krakatoa. The carbon comment, on the other hand, was a disingenuous comment regarding the folly of man's influence versus natural occurrences. However, considering the positions provided by academic sources, it may be wise to increase man's carbon footprint to offset the eventual cooling consequences of future Krakatoa type eruptions likely to occur. Or following a philosophy that man knows and has accounted for all natural variables and can influence the global climate by whim or deliberate effort, at the very least we should allocate a major portion of our economy to preventing future volcanic eruptions, equal to the effort being allocated to preventing global warming. A wise investment "for the children"; right? How about following a philosophy of do as little harm as possible? How about applying the concept of unintednded consequences to 250 years of massive release of CO2?

vincentML -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 2:21:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: Did you just try and conflate the tiny little icelandic volcano to the krakatoa explosion? No. I only suggested it as a reference to see the impact of nature, versus man, in the case of Krakatoa. The information coming out of Iceland indicates this eruption will not be climate changing because the ash plume did not reach the height where it would have a global impact. As of now, it hasn't reached the level of the 1991 Mt. Pinatubo eruption let alone Krakatoa. The carbon comment, on the other hand, was a disingenuous comment regarding the folly of man's influence versus natural occurrences. However, considering the positions provided by academic sources, it may be wise to increase man's carbon footprint to offset the eventual cooling consequences of future Krakatoa type eruptions likely to occur. Or following a philosophy that man knows and has accounted for all natural variables and can influence the global climate by whim or deliberate effort, at the very least we should allocate a major portion of our economy to preventing future volcanic eruptions, equal to the effort being allocated to preventing global warming. A wise investment "for the children"; right? How about following a philosophy of do as little harm as possible? How about applying the concept of unintednded consequences to 250 years of massive release of CO2? Ken, how practical is it to assume alternative sources will provide enough energy to provide food, jobs and the needed transportation for 9 billion people? I would love to see the calculations.

LaTigresse -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 2:22:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic thank you heartcream, i was not sure if that was a 'crazy' idea or illogical thought process. LaTigresse, so do you or do you not believe Humans play a role in this Evolution? I had to read "I think it is sublimely arrogant that human beings seem to think that, just because the planet is perfect place for us to exist, it now needs to stay the same." twice. :D Perfect for us but not the environment? We may play a small part, but ultimately, there will be earthquakes and volcanoes, just as there was before we were here. Because of some of my spiritual beliefs, I don't think we were really meant to be here forever. It doesn't scare me the way it does many. I feel the evolution of the planet is, as much playing a role in the evolution of humans, as visa versa.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Icelandic Volcano (4/19/2010 2:30:58 PM)
quote: How about following a philosophy of do as little harm as possible? Sure - as soon as we have universal agreement, and quantitative data holding up to 'scientific method' standards, regarding what is "harm" as well as agreement on how much, relative to any policy implementation affecting rest of the human condition, is "as little as possible".

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