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winterrose77 -> Help? (4/22/2010 12:26:06 PM)
I'm confused. So my dom and I reached our 2 year anniversary earlier this month, and once again I tentatively brought up D/s. Although we put the 24/7 lifestyle on hold for awhile because of balance problems, we were still staying strongly in our d/s positions in bed. And frankly, it's painful to me to not feel like his. He seemed to understand and promised to truly 'collar' me someday soon (this time with a real 'collar' type of jewelry; not necessarily a choker but a necklace or something) and to stick with it instead of letting it fade away this time. I trust him and he means what he says. At the same time, I'm terrified of him getting tired of it sooner or later. So it's a little harder for me to truly submit right now...he told me the other night to call him "Master" at one point, and I stopped, sat down, and told him seriously that I can't do that right now because he hasn't earned it. When he truly takes me as his pet again, makes me respect him and want to obey him (and makes me obey him even if I'd prefer not to), then I'll do whatever he asks, but right now there are limits. He nodded, agreed, and we went on with our day. Something keeps nagging at me though. Is there something about me that's unwantable? He talks all the time about how good of a sub I am and how much he loves being a dom, but he doesn't seem to want to mark me or physically make it clear that I'm his. So, finally, my real question: Masters, what is it that drives you to collar or possess a submissive? Is a physical presence, be it a tattoo, piercing, choker, ring, or anything else at all important to you? If so, why?

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Help? (4/22/2010 12:46:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: winterrose77 Masters, what is it that drives you to collar or possess a submissive? This is just part of who We are. We feel We are created to do this, just as there are those who are created to surrender, in much the same way We have green eyes. quote: Is a physical presence, be it a tattoo, piercing, choker, ring, or anything else at all important to you? If so, why? Yes, a collar is important to Us, but We fully recognize that it's a "mark your territory" kind of thing. The collar says, "MINE!" In the end though, it doesn't matter what drives us but what drives your partner. If it is fading over time, he might be forcing himself into a role that he truly doesn't have in his heart. Or, he might be assuming it must manifest in your lives in a certain way (most likely the way you're asking it to). We suggest going back and asking if he really wants to do this and, if so, what would his most satisfying relationship look like. It might be significantly different that what is going on now or has gone on in the past. Master Fire

Focus50 -> RE: Help? (4/22/2010 1:50:05 PM)
You know his heart's not in it just as you know actions (and lack of) speak louder than words.... He's been playing a role he thinks is kink rather than being himself and everything has a cost. He doesn't have now what you want even more of in the future, hence you're doing what confused subs do - withdrawing and wondering what's wrong with you etc. Time is nigh to put all cards on the table, esp him - ie, honesty.... Focus.

dreamerdreaming -> RE: Help? (4/22/2010 2:51:25 PM)
You can't make him into something he's not. He's vanilla, with bedroom kink. You need more. Stop going to the desert to look for water.

DarkSteven -> RE: Help? (4/22/2010 4:36:46 PM)
The vanilla analogy is the girl who wants to get married, and the guy mumbles something about "Yeah, sure, we'll do that someday."

warlock1935 -> RE: Help? (4/22/2010 5:22:26 PM)
quote: You know his heart's not in it just as you know actions (and lack of) speak louder than words.... He's been playing a role he thinks is kink rather than being himself and everything has a cost. He doesn't have now what you want even more of in the future, hence you're doing what confused subs do - withdrawing and wondering what's wrong with you etc. Couldn't agree more. I'll add to it - when you start wondering what's wrong with you, and feeling unowned, that's a wakeup point. if your Dom is doing his job, you shouldn't have those feelings; if there's something wrong with your service, he'll tell you and make you correct it. D/s isn't some abstruse puzzle you have to decipher. I take a collar very seriously; a submissive has to earn it, and I don't even think about collaring a sub until she's been with me for a year. For me, it says to others "She's Mine", as another MasterFireMaam said; but more importantly, it says to her that she's Owned, that she's successfully Trained and highly skilled, that I value her above all others, and that I'm making a lifetime commitment to owning her and guiding her. [image]local://upfiles/6129/B264BBAA77EE42BB99ECF1428A70A8CE.jpg[/image]

DesFIP -> RE: Help? (4/23/2010 10:48:02 AM)
You folks are seriously mismatched. He wants a sub who wants to submit, and wants to please. You want a dom who will force you. That isn't him. But it doesn't mean he isn't dominant, just that he isn't the right dominant for you. If he doesn't want to mark you, that's his call. Because if it's your call, then you aren't submitting. Which apparently you aren't because you're insisting he top you in the way you want. It isn't wrong for you to want this, it just means you aren't very compatible.

leadership527 -> RE: Help? (4/23/2010 11:00:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: winterrose77 So, finally, my real question: Masters, what is it that drives you to collar or possess a submissive? Is a physical presence, be it a tattoo, piercing, choker, ring, or anything else at all important to you? If so, why? I don't think there is any actual answer to what "drives" me to own Carol other than it's the way I am and she's amenable. I like owning a woman in the literal sense of the words master and slave. It's rewarding for our marriage on a love level and fulfilling to me on a way primal level. Insofar as physical things, symbols are important to us. Our wedding rings are important. So is her collar. The reason these things are important is the same reason ANY symbol is important... it gets imbued with meaning. In and of itself, her collar is just a half pound of steel. Our wedding rings are just a few grams of gold. It isn't the thing itself, it's the emotions we've vested in the thing that matter.

reynardfox -> RE: Help? (4/23/2010 12:00:07 PM)
You don't want much do you? Only everything right now. Give Him time and show some respect. You should be talking to him, not talking about him. To want to submit to someone totally ought to preclude voicing your doubts about them in public. If you want to be His, act like it.

winterrose77 -> RE: Help? (4/23/2010 12:29:14 PM)
To all who think I'm being disrespectful of him by posting this, I sincerely apologize for coming off that way. He knows I post here and chat here and has no problem with that. To clarify, my only reasoning in posting this and the explanation above was to share my dom's reasoning and therefore allow others to see exactly what I was asking about. I'm not asking for advice, nor am I in any way unsatisfied with him. The balance I was referring to was the balance between our individual homes and our relationship together. We had decided to put off the 24/7 lifestyle until the point that we were living together because of the stress it put on us to keep it so secret, and the fact that it started to feel like a mere 'bedroom kink' since the only places we could really act naturally according to that D/s dynamic were just as private as the bedroom. We didn't want to turn our relationship as such into such a menial thing (no offense to those of you who are merely interested in bedroom kink). However, that's painful to us, since it's so natural for me to belong to him and so natural for him to possess me, so I brought it up again and he gladly agreed to stop this containment, seeing that I have less self-control than he does and it's far harder for me to act so vanilla. We then discussed the point at which he could physically collar me without causing chaos at my home (my parents are VERY conservative), and eventually he told me there was no way he could do so before I move in with him, because otherwise it would feel too much like we had to hide it, and he wants me to show pride in being his. So, to completely clarify, I am curious as to what leads up to a collaring/marking point in OTHER D/s relationships, after seeing how circumstantial it is in our relationship. I'm not looking for advice or complaining about a lack of an object. Nor am I trying to compare our dynamic to that of anybody else. I was simply curious as to how it works in other dynamics. That's all. :) EDIT: I have a problem with past/present/future tenses. I FELT unwanted because he was so able to uphold a vanilla standing without showing obvious pain. It's part of what makes me admire him as my dom; he's much stronger than I am and able to shoulder his emotions with ease. Sorry for the confusion, and again I apologize for seeming to be whining rather than asking a real question. XD

DesFIP -> RE: Help? (4/24/2010 4:18:27 AM)
It would cause chaos for him to tell you to buy chocolate ice cream for when he comes over and not fudge ripple like last time? Most of life is vanilla. But your parents wouldn't even notice if he said "Baby, get me more coffee, would you?" And that is him being served and you taking an order. He doesn't have to bark orders. He doesn't have to call you bitch. You just have to get up and do it even when he uses the word please.

winterrose77 -> RE: Help? (4/24/2010 12:37:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP It would cause chaos for him to tell you to buy chocolate ice cream for when he comes over and not fudge ripple like last time? Most of life is vanilla. But your parents wouldn't even notice if he said "Baby, get me more coffee, would you?" And that is him being served and you taking an order. He doesn't have to bark orders. He doesn't have to call you bitch. You just have to get up and do it even when he uses the word please. Actually, they would. XD My mom is a bit of a feminist and my dad is just kind of a jerk about this stuff. They don't even like him being in the house. But yes, you're absolutely right; that's exactly how we work. I admit that sometimes if I'm in a bad mood I'll brat about it a little, but he doesn't let it go nor does he overpunish me or do anything public...to use your coffee analogy: "Baby, get me some more coffee please?" "Not right now, I'm really tired and just wanna lay down." Now, my parents watching, he would then nod and get his own coffee...but later on that night, when my parents aren't nearby, he might do something like forbid me to sleep without a butt plug in as a way to show me that I'm never to be too tired for him, and warn me quietly that next time I made an excuse like that, I'd get the hot coffee poured on my ass after a hard spanking. (He suggested this solution by the way. Remind me not to ever do that...that butt plug hurts after awhile >.< )

DesFIP -> RE: Help? (4/24/2010 1:49:50 PM)
You know, I wouldn't like it if a guy ordered my college daughter around in the house either. But if he was talking to The Man and she was free, I wouldn't think anything of it. If he interrupted her doing something of value I would think less of him. But that's how it works around here, we both have busy lives and no one has an extra 8 hours in the day so chores are accomplished by whoever can. Which not coincidentally leaves more time to enjoy ourselves. There has to be a reason your parents so dislike him. Or did you come home and say all excited "Mom, Dad, guess what? I'm a slave!". Because that's too much information. Beyond that, if the coffee is scalding, I hope his medical insurance will cover the skin grafts.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Help? (4/24/2010 7:27:13 PM)
Yes, pouring hot coffee on someone is incredibly stupid. I hope he was just trying to make some kind of point.

aldompdx -> RE: Help? (4/25/2010 1:37:47 AM)
If you cannot surrender and accept the actual reality of the situation, and instead remain fixated on your unfulfilled concept/fantasy of what it should be, then why would your partner want to accept you the way you actually are? Hypocrisy is a form of control, not surrender.

winterrose77 -> RE: Help? (4/25/2010 7:39:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP You know, I wouldn't like it if a guy ordered my college daughter around in the house either. But if he was talking to The Man and she was free, I wouldn't think anything of it. If he interrupted her doing something of value I would think less of him. But that's how it works around here, we both have busy lives and no one has an extra 8 hours in the day so chores are accomplished by whoever can. Which not coincidentally leaves more time to enjoy ourselves. There has to be a reason your parents so dislike him. Or did you come home and say all excited "Mom, Dad, guess what? I'm a slave!". Because that's too much information. Beyond that, if the coffee is scalding, I hope his medical insurance will cover the skin grafts. Definitely not. XD The main reason that they dislike him is because he's pagan, and they're very firm believers in Christianity. They know nothing of the D/s relationship between us and never will, I hope. And yeah...he was kidding about the coffee part. XD He's not that violent. Or stupid. quote: If you cannot surrender and accept the actual reality of the situation, and instead remain fixated on your unfulfilled concept/fantasy of what it should be, then why would your partner want to accept you the way you actually are? Hypocrisy is a form of control, not surrender. I have. :P Neither of us was comfortable with trying to lead a vanilla life and so I brought it up and we agreed to return to how we both feel comfortable. There's no unfulfilled fantasy or hypocrisy, I'm not really sure where you sensed that from.

sweetsub1957 -> RE: Help? (4/25/2010 9:57:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: winterrose77 when my parents aren't nearby, he might do something like forbid me to sleep without a butt plug in as a way to show me that I'm never to be too tired for him, and warn me quietly that next time I made an excuse like that, I'd get the hot coffee poured on my ass after a hard spanking. (He suggested this solution by the way. Remind me not to ever do that...that butt plug hurts after awhile >.< ) i think i'd be waaaaaaaay more worried about the hot coffee than the buttplug.

January -> RE: Help? (4/25/2010 11:25:36 AM)
Hi Rose, I'm not sure you're going to appreciate what I'm going to write, but I believe your confusion about collaring (for your situation and in other D/s dynamics) isn't a BDSM issue at all. Strip away the BDSM sheen, remove the talk of collars and whether or not he deserves your submission and butt plugs, what's left is this: You want to be with him and your parents object. The vanilla analog is a teenager who dreams of getting engaged to her boyfriend, but her parents can't stand him, and he knows it, so he won't commit. In the meantime, the teen is angry at the parents for being so conservative and frustrated with not getting what she wants because it would be so cool to be engaged and she loves him. She demands the boyfriend to fix the problem. You and your man have a couple of options--and none of them have a thing to do with BDSM. One approach (a long-term one) is to get your parents to like him more. Have you really talked to them about why they dislike him? Are you sure it's paganism? What if he's disrespectful of you or them? Ask your parents in a meek, non-confrontational manner. What is your man willing to do to help his relationship to them? Are you really innocent in this strife? Are you disrespectful and contemptuous of your parents because they are thwarting your great love, and they blame him for your poor attitude? Another solution is, of course, you be with him. You can't live at home. You can't take your parent's money, or allow them to pay your tuition. You become independent. As a self-supporting person, rather than a child, you actually have the right to decide if you want to be somebody's slave. January

winterrose77 -> RE: Help? (4/25/2010 12:26:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: January Hi Rose, I'm not sure you're going to appreciate what I'm going to write, but I believe your confusion about collaring (for your situation and in other D/s dynamics) isn't a BDSM issue at all. Strip away the BDSM sheen, remove the talk of collars and whether or not he deserves your submission and butt plugs, what's left is this: You want to be with him and your parents object. The vanilla analog is a teenager who dreams of getting engaged to her boyfriend, but her parents can't stand him, and he knows it, so he won't commit. In the meantime, the teen is angry at the parents for being so conservative and frustrated with not getting what she wants because it would be so cool to be engaged and she loves him. She demands the boyfriend to fix the problem. You and your man have a couple of options--and none of them have a thing to do with BDSM. One approach (a long-term one) is to get your parents to like him more. Have you really talked to them about why they dislike him? Are you sure it's paganism? What if he's disrespectful of you or them? Ask your parents in a meek, non-confrontational manner. What is your man willing to do to help his relationship to them? Are you really innocent in this strife? Are you disrespectful and contemptuous of your parents because they are thwarting your great love, and they blame him for your poor attitude? Another solution is, of course, you be with him. You can't live at home. You can't take your parent's money, or allow them to pay your tuition. You become independent. As a self-supporting person, rather than a child, you actually have the right to decide if you want to be somebody's slave. January While I do appreciate your input, the truth of it is that my parents dislike him only for the paganism thing. We've talked about it at length and they both agree that he's a great guy except for that he's not a Christian like they are. The only reason that their opinion on the matter doesn't have much weight with me is because they're waiting for me to move out so they can divorce and have been planning this for a long time now. Neither of them has had much luck in relationships, especially with each other. And I've told them this respectfully and they understand. I'm simply not going to be obnoxious and enforce my relationship on their lives, just as I appreciate their trying to keep their relationship problems from affecting MY life. And in no way am I wanting him to fix anything...honestly I feel like I should request the thread to be closed at this point. I wasn't asking for advice or complaining about him, I was simply sharing a condensed version of my story in order to open up and hopefully get more answers to my question (which is TOTALLY off this point). EDIT: And to clarify, the conversation we had had nothing to do with DESERVING. XD If he had to 'deserve' my submission, it wouldn't be submitting. It's simply a matter of that while I call him "Sir" and "my Lord" regularly, "Master" was something we had decided on long ago as being applicable only once we lived together and could comfortably practice a 24/7 lifestyle at home. I had a poor choice in words there, I apologize.

dragon200070 -> RE: Help? (4/25/2010 4:29:51 PM)
Hi, When I discovered domination, my normal sexual approach ended up in the trash can. Now I've heard of people wanting a break from BDSM and I never ever believed it. The man was wanna be in every case and was managing multiple relationships. A real Dom does not need a break from BDSM. I've been with my slave for 11 years. It took cancer to halt our relationship. I escape stress by being a Dom. Face up to the problem with him and ask for an explanation. Jeff

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