Free Speech on "South Park"? (Full Version)

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FirmhandKY -> Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/22/2010 11:06:44 PM)

Threat against ‘South Park’ creators highlights dilemma for media companies

In its 200 shows, the irreverent animated program "South Park" has mercilessly satirized Christianity, Buddhism, Scientology, the blind and disabled, gay people, Hollywood celebrities and politicians of all persuasions, weathering the resulting protests and threats of boycotts.

But this week, after an ominous threat from a radical Muslim website, the network that airs the program bleeped out all references to the prophet Muhammad in the second of two episodes set to feature the holy figure dressed in a bear costume. The incident provides the latest example that media conglomerates are still struggling to balance free speech with safety concerns and religious sensitivities, six years after Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh was slain for making a film critical of Islamic society.

Comedy Central declined to comment on the latest incident. But "South Park" creators Trey Parker and Matt Stone clearly disagreed with their bosses' handling of the situation. A statement posted on their website said that executives "made a determination to alter the episode" without their approval and that the usual wrap-up speech from one character didn't mention Muhammad "but it got bleeped too."

The network may have thought it had no choice after revolutionmuslim.com, the website of a fringe group, delivered a grim warning about last week's episode, which depicted Muhammad dressed as a bear.

"We have to warn Matt and Trey that what they are doing is stupid and they will probably wind up like Theo Van Gogh for airing this show," the posting said. A photo of Van Gogh's body lying in the street was included with the original posting ...

Utter horseshit.

I didn't like South Park when it first came on.  But, after a time, and several talks with my oldest boy, I started to watch it occasionally, and found it a great show.  Nothing was sacred, and they'll gore anyone's ox .... and they usually have a good point.

I admire Matt and Trey, and think the "suits" are kowtowing, cockless bastards.

Firm





LadyEllen -> RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/23/2010 4:29:52 AM)

You know, one of the undertakings of Buddhists is that they shall not make light of the dharma as this may bring it into contempt. Thats fair enough, but obviously applies only to those undertaking a Buddhist path - others are quite free to poke fun at the dharma and undermine it.

This is the problem with these particular Muslims, that they seem to think that everyone ought to hold their religion and traditions in high regard and be subject to the same sanctions as a Muslim breaching those requirements. They are their own worst enemies in this - few I believe would wish to overtly cause them offence, but this insistence that effectively everyone acknowledge Islam as being of some special character, above comment or reproach - and thereby superior to all other religions and philosophies - merely has the effect of drawing both scrutiny to their religion and ire against it, when otherwise few should show any interest in it.

English law is as clear as US law as regards this - albeit formulated differently. English law says that one is quite free to criticise and condemn anyone's religion, as long as he does not thereby seek to criticise and condemn the followers. In other words its fine to hate a religion but not its followers because they are followers. The more these Muslims seek to exert pressure on westerners to conform to their expectations, the blurrier this line becomes.

E




DomYngBlk -> RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/23/2010 4:38:18 AM)

Unfortunately now the precedence has been set. Don't think they are going to be able to put this genie back in the bottle now




Moonhead -> RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/23/2010 5:49:55 AM)

I wonder if Americans are going to continue to whine about how Europe is run by Muslims and complain about dhimmitude elsewhere now that their media has demonstrated it has no backbone at all over this?




SohCahToa -> RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/23/2010 5:51:53 AM)

[8|] <<< Mohammed

This is what he looks like honest I met him, he went to my primary school and his father was an accountant.




Moonhead -> RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/23/2010 5:54:11 AM)

Nah, he's got a bomb in his hat. Didn't you see that cartoon there was all the fuss over?




mnottertail -> RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/23/2010 6:08:12 AM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwOL4rB-go




DomKen -> RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/23/2010 6:22:31 AM)

Funny thing is Mohammed had been portrayed in south Park previously and no one complained.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Best_Friends




Aneirin -> RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/23/2010 6:25:41 AM)

But really, should we be poking fun at the deities people believe in, understanding the word fun as a word with variable meaning and intent, one persons fun can be another persons insult, we all have different interpretations of what we experience in life.

Could the word fun in these cases be replaced by the word disrespect ?

I suppose if the reverse was implemented, God was ridiculed in a cartoon that originated with Moslems, there would be outrage from Christians in the west, except that the Moslems would not do that, for they also believe in god, Mohammed was a prophet, just like in their view Jesus was.

But when you do see cartoons that originate from moslem minds, cartoons that inflame the west, what is it's content, more often than not, it is political in nature, thereby ridiculing policies and if the policies are the things the Moslem world pokes fun at, then what does that reveal to us in the west what the Moslem main gripe with us is, nothing but the policy makers and implementers, not so much or if any the people of the country and their varied beliefs.

Respect starts with the self, if we cannot respect ourselves then what hope do we have of respecting others and everyone I suspect would have to agree respect in our world is rarely truly experienced, have we become more uncivilised as we evolve.




Jeffff -> RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/23/2010 6:31:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

But really, should we be poking fun at the deities people believe in, understanding the word fun as a word with variable meaning and intent, one persons fun can be another persons insult, we all have different interpretations of what we experience in life.

Could the word fun in these cases be replaced by the word disrespect ?

I suppose if the reverse was implemented, God was ridiculed in a cartoon that originated with Moslems, there would be outrage from Christians in the west, except that the Moslems would not do that, for they also believe in god, Mohammed was a prophet, just like in their view Jesus was.

But when you do see cartoons that originate from moslem minds, cartoons that inflame the west, what is it's content, more often than not, it is political in nature, thereby ridiculing policies and if the policies are the things the Moslem world pokes fun at, then what does that reveal to us in the west what the Moslem main gripe with us is, nothing but the policy makers and implementers, not so much or if any the people of the country and their varied beliefs.

Respect starts with the self, if we cannot respect ourselves then what hope do we have of respecting others and everyone I suspect would have to agree respect in our world is rarely truly experienced, have we become more uncivilised as we evolve.




Everything...and I mean EVERYTHING can be the object of humor. As soon as something is to sacred to be made fun of I think it becomes dangerous.

If your convictions are strong enough no one can move you. I find your entire post to be offensive to right thinking people everywhere.




SohCahToa -> RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/23/2010 6:46:49 AM)

We had all this before with those joke about the holocaust.

Humour varies from person to person thus nobody can pretend they know what the limits should be although they should be aware the type of humour they have often defines what their prejudices are.

Some things aren't funny and perhaps to Muslims talk of the prophet Mohammed isn't either. We can't understand such things because we are ignorant to such cultures and beliefs.

I think what we are most arrogant about as individuals is this idea that only we know what true humour is.




sunshinemiss -> RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/23/2010 6:48:15 AM)

I love South Park. They make fun of everybody! Just like it should be.




jbcurious -> RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/23/2010 6:50:15 AM)

I love South Park, the fact that nothing and no one is sacred is what makes all of it ok. If they can't take a joke then screw em. I think caving into threats is a bad judgement call...it won't be long until people can't express any opinion that doesn't meet a PC standard without fear of retribution if this pandering to threats and the people who make them continues.




twistedwillow -> RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/23/2010 6:53:25 AM)

Personally I Cannot stand southpark, I just don't *get* it's humour.
But I still have to agree with Jefff on this one, everything, EVERYTHING can be made fun of and once it is too sacred to be made fun of, well that just adds a whole new level of fun that can be had taking the piss out of it.




Real0ne -> RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/23/2010 6:58:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Nothing was sacred, and they'll gore anyone's ox .... and they usually have a good point.

I admire Matt and Trey, and think the "suits" are kowtowing, cockless bastards.

Firm




they have their sacred cows too.




domiguy -> RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/23/2010 7:00:03 AM)

Mohammed is very shy...He peeked out for a second to let me snap this photo
[image]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5LMq-on8XkQ/SfpE_EgReRI/AAAAAAAAAdk/LXHJPdMY4eQ/s320/clownfish.jpg[/image]
Cute lil' feller ain't he?




SohCahToa -> RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/23/2010 7:01:19 AM)

Everyone has sacred cows like for example if a family member was dying of some illness and some idiot came along and started joking about it.

However we tend to have this view everyone should share our personal sense of humour and that anyone or any culture that doesn't is mad.




Moonhead -> RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/23/2010 7:02:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Respect starts with the self, if we cannot respect ourselves then what hope do we have of respecting others and everyone I suspect would have to agree respect in our world is rarely truly experienced, have we become more uncivilised as we evolve.

Respect is earned. Throwing death threats about is rarely an effective way of doing that.




domiguy -> RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/23/2010 7:05:40 AM)

Here are a bunch of mohammeds going to watch a beheading.

[image]http://www.terrain.org/columns/12/images/clownfish.jpg[/image]




Aneirin -> RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? (4/23/2010 7:06:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Everything...and I mean EVERYTHING can be the object of humor. As soon as something is to sacred to be made fun of I think it becomes dangerous.

If your convictions are strong enough no one can move you. I find your entire post to be offensive to right thinking people everywhere.


First, you have to define what right thinking is, for it just like fun and respect is another term with variable meaning and therefore open to interpretation.

I suppose one could before acting or saying something, think of how it would affect others before acting, if there was in anyway a doubt in the mind that your proposed actions might cause upset to others, you have to then decide which way to go. If your attitude is fuck them, then your path is clear, but be prepared to accept any comeback and with that understand it might not be yourself that receives that comeback in whatever form it takes, an insult, a punch on the nose or other depending upon the aggrieved party's depth of hurt.




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