I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around

I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (Full Version)

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AAkasha -> I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/24/2010 10:58:28 AM)
Recently I found myself flirting inappropriately with a man my age, and enough of the innuendo was out on the table and he clearly knew I was kinky and was he fishing. He was also indicating, in a subtle way, that he was game to "prove" to me that he knew what he was talking about. I found myself in a dilemma for a few seconds, because the femdom beast in me was actually considering it. But there's no way I could go through with it, because I had no way to explain to him in a way he'd understand, "I am perfectly happy tying you up and torturing you, but I will not be having sex with you." I knew that he may say, "ok," but then later he wouldn't be buying that, and at the best I'd look like a cocktease (is that a bad thing?) and at the worst I'd become a statistic of a man not understanding "no means no." For some reason, this didn't seem to be a problem when I was young and single - I used to "pick up" men quite often, flirt with them to make sure they were game for some S&M, make sure they knew sex was off the table until I said so, and off we went. So is that an indication that younger men were more pliable, or that I was more young and naive about the world, or something else entirely? Or is it that I am married, and have a ring on my finger, and the flirtations, while I kept them centered on S&M and not on sex, must automatically mean I am looking for infidelity, not just S&m? I guess I could, if I tried hard, pull that man aside and have a pretty detailed conversation about the nature of my relationship, and expect that if he agreed he'd follow my guidelines. But in my mind, I can't see that playing out well; and I can't figure out if it's because of his age, of the fact that I am married and he would think the "open marriage" thing is bs and I was looking to cheat, or something else. I also reflect back to how I used to keep sex off the table, with ease, and I wonder if it's because as a single woman, the message wasn't really, "I am not having sex with you ever," it was "I am not having sex with you initially but we can continue seeing each other,then who knows" -- since it was two single people getting together. I'd appreciate insight from people in similar situations. For the record, nothing happened. But it was the closely I'd been to considering getting a hotel room and having my girlfriend go pick up my gear and bring it over. Akasha

OttersSwim -> RE: I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/24/2010 11:42:54 AM)
Just a couple of thoughts from a male perspective... There is no circumstance under which I could be so aroused sexually as to misinterpret the word "No", nor be so out of my head with sexual need that I would act in a way that would voilate any person. I believe this is true for the vast majority of males out there. Are there males out there that are exceptions? Absolutely. But, they are a very small percentage of the population. I could absolutely see situations where a female dominant and a male bottom get together for just BDSM play with no sexual contact. Again, I think that this concept is not too much for the male brain or libido to grasp and there are guys out there that would be perfectly happy for someone to just hit them and not have sexual contact. I also think that it is absolutely necessary where there is going to be intimate contact - BDSM play -is- intimate contact, that clear and concise discussion be undertaken between the parties before anything goes on. This discussion may take 5 minutes or 5 hours depending on the parties and how the mutual evaluation of the other person goes, and how quickly people feel comfortable and proceed, or not and don't. If I were in the male's position, I would want that discussion just so I knew exactly what was expected of me out of the deal and so I did not get hurt - physically or emotionally. So you evaluate the other - "Is this person someone who understands and holds to a concept of personal responsibility or not?" I sometimes think that so many Ladies see so many duds come at them that they forget that this place attracts the duds. So much negative exposure can create sort of a cartoon perception of what a male is. As I have said before - like working in a prison it is easy to think that all of humanity is like these people... The vast majority of males in this lifestyle, and frankly on the planet understand and would absolutely abide by "No", can separate their needs and desires from their penis, and have at least some level of understanding and adherence to concepts of personal governance, and personal responsibility.

seekingOwnertoo -> RE: I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/24/2010 12:11:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha I also reflect back to how I used to keep sex off the table, with ease, and I wonder if it's because as a single woman, the message wasn't really, "I am not having sex with you ever," it was "I am not having sex with you initially but we can continue seeing each other,then who knows" -- since it was two single people getting together. i am sure You mean exactly what You say in Your entire OP ... yet i would suggest ... the aspect i highlighted, had a lot to do with it. As i am a single man ... i have to say ... i have never met a women who said sex was off the table in real life ... and could stick to her guns for any length of time ... when i make a real, subtle smooth effort to change her mind. (Don't always want too, though). Moreover, if it is said that sex is off the table ... i might consider it a challenge to try to seduce ... kind of like waving a red flag ... But You also should know ... that generally i avoid married and or involved women, too ... so i am basically operating in the mind set You were when You were single. And please don't take this as arrogant ... rather, i am trying to convey my mental interpretation of the words ... assuming this was a more vanilla type environment You were flirting in

perfectflaw00 -> RE: I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/24/2010 12:25:41 PM)
most men are blunt instruments, probably best to be upfront about your intentions right off the bat to avoid any confusion down the line.

perfectflaw00 -> RE: I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/24/2010 12:34:15 PM)
oh and point of fact if a woman did happen to say this to me in real life i think i would faint in delight.

Tantriqu -> RE: I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/24/2010 12:34:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Recently I found myself flirting inappropriately with a man my age, and enough of the innuendo was out on the table and he clearly knew I was kinky and was he fishing. He was also indicating, in a subtle way, that he was game to "prove" to me that he knew what he was talking about. I found myself in a dilemma for a few seconds, because the femdom beast in me was actually considering it. But there's no way I could go through with it, because I had no way to explain to him in a way he'd understand, "I am perfectly happy tying you up and torturing you, but I will not be having sex with you." I knew that he may say, "ok," but then later he wouldn't be buying that, and at the best I'd look like a cocktease (is that a bad thing?) and at the worst I'd become a statistic of a man not understanding "no means no." For some reason, this didn't seem to be a problem when I was young and single - I used to "pick up" men quite often, flirt with them to make sure they were game for some S&M, make sure they knew sex was off the table until I said so, and off we went. So is that an indication that younger men were more pliable, or that I was more young and naive about the world, or something else entirely? Or is it that I am married, and have a ring on my finger, and the flirtations, while I kept them centered on S&M and not on sex, must automatically mean I am looking for infidelity, not just S&m? I guess I could, if I tried hard, pull that man aside and have a pretty detailed conversation about the nature of my relationship, and expect that if he agreed he'd follow my guidelines. But in my mind, I can't see that playing out well; and I can't figure out if it's because of his age, of the fact that I am married and he would think the "open marriage" thing is bs and I was looking to cheat, or something else. I also reflect back to how I used to keep sex off the table, with ease, and I wonder if it's because as a single woman, the message wasn't really, "I am not having sex with you ever," it was "I am not having sex with you initially but we can continue seeing each other,then who knows" -- since it was two single people getting together. I'd appreciate insight from people in similar situations. For the record, nothing happened. But it was the closely I'd been to considering getting a hotel room and having my girlfriend go pick up my gear and bring it over. Akasha Hi, Akasha, I can't speak for the marriage question, but will for the rest. Marriage or no, I love the thrill of the hunt, of seeing a man who appears to be sub, his returned look as he appears to recognise who I am and what I can do, his shiver when it's clear what we're both talking about. I find men my age and older to be very 'bottom-heavy' and into 'do-me' porn, so I understand your reticence. I find younger men much more amenable to the no intercourse rule and to Dommes in general, and are better subbie material in general. I've never run into trouble with lovers and potential subs describing exactly what I want and don't want. They know I'm not kidding, and they're happy and grateful for what we do; I tell them basics of what I'm about to do, with fine details withheld ;-) I don't like a clit tease or a cock tease, unless who is attached to the cock is in five-point restraints, but a little flirting is good for the soul, on both sides. But if it gets heavier I start using real words so expectations are clear, and actually say something pretty close to '"I am perfectly happy tying you up and torturing you, but I will not be having intercourse with you." And they moan something pretty close to, 'Oh, yes, please!' Safety, fidelity and hygiene are three things I have to know a lot about a man before I strip him, but perhaps that's part of the thrill/risk you're feeling or even seeking. If your husband's into it, I also love hunting with a collared sub which takes away some of the fear and risk. As you may know, there are a surprising amount of businessmen who want to be tied up and watch/listen while I do things to my sub, and subs who want watch while I do things to a tied-up businessman. But with all of the STD's out there, I haven't done it in years. Le sigh! At least they make dams bigger than they used to . . .

BreathandStone -> RE: I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/24/2010 1:01:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo Moreover, if it is said that sex is off the table ... i might consider it a challenge to try to seduce ... kind of like waving a red flag ... This kind of attitude is why I have never tried to pick up men who weren't already used to the idea that play and sex could happen separately - basically, I've never tried to convert vanilla men. I don't feel safe doing it. If I'm available, and attracted to them, and willing to engage in "kinky play," I must at least be willing to blow them or let them eat me out, right? Men who believe that they can almost get women into bed come to expect sex...and it's a short step from expecting sex to feeling entitled to it. And depriving people of things that they feel entitled to can get messy. I'm not saying that every man, or even most men are going to turn into rapists, but I've dealt with enough horny, entitled men in bars and social situations (he bought her drinks, or last time she called him they had sex) that I don't really want to deal with it in private. Honestly, I sometimes prefer to play with men who aren't physically attracted to me, because that way I don't have to deal with people who will try to persuade me otherwise when I say, "I'm don't want this."

seekingOwnertoo -> RE: I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/24/2010 1:45:08 PM)
i expected someone to interpret my response from the context of play. That is why i tried to qualify it with: quote: assuming this was a more vanilla type environment You were flirting in And i meant the separation between play and sex is unclear, at least in the mind of the male. The words i recall from the opening post were flirting. In my mind ... flirting ... in a grocery store, shopping mall or other venue, means something quite a bit different than play in a BDSM context. And that is the perspective i am trying to communicate. That said, i am sorry for saying this ... if You already understood ... but were citing my words as an example of why You feel the way You do. Because i do understand Your thoughts, too. And You do have a valid point ... too.

LadyAngelika -> RE: I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/24/2010 1:57:56 PM)
quote: I wonder if it's because as a single woman, the message wasn't really, "I am not having sex with you ever," it was "I am not having sex with you initially but we can continue seeing each other,then who knows" -- since it was two single people getting together. I absolutely totally get this. The age thing would be a factor for me, but some men have made me feel similar to how you have felt before. Was he a daredevil per chance? - LA

AAkasha -> RE: I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/24/2010 2:18:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BreathandStone quote: ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo Moreover, if it is said that sex is off the table ... i might consider it a challenge to try to seduce ... kind of like waving a red flag ... This kind of attitude is why I have never tried to pick up men who weren't already used to the idea that play and sex could happen separately - basically, I've never tried to convert vanilla men. I don't feel safe doing it. If I'm available, and attracted to them, and willing to engage in "kinky play," I must at least be willing to blow them or let them eat me out, right? Men who believe that they can almost get women into bed come to expect sex...and it's a short step from expecting sex to feeling entitled to it. And depriving people of things that they feel entitled to can get messy. I'm not saying that every man, or even most men are going to turn into rapists, but I've dealt with enough horny, entitled men in bars and social situations (he bought her drinks, or last time she called him they had sex) that I don't really want to deal with it in private. Honestly, I sometimes prefer to play with men who aren't physically attracted to me, because that way I don't have to deal with people who will try to persuade me otherwise when I say, "I'm don't want this." When I was single and in my late 20s / early 30s, this safe flirting dynamic was fairly easy to establish, especially since I like younger men. If I was totally in control of the flirtation, the dynamic, the pace, and clearly the man was falling in line (vs. flirtaciously "challenging" me or trying to take control back), there was very little doubt, if any, who was calling the shots. An extreme example would be taking a man who was clearly very inexperienced with women, or shy, or just afraid to make the first move - ANY move - despite being super intelligent, emotionally mature. This kind of guy I could sniff out in a crowded room like there was no tomorrow. Just eye contact, and I could tell. Nowadays, men who are "age appropriate" for me to flirt with are in my age group. They are clearly sexually experienced men. That's I guess what part of the challenge is - and the whole infidelity thing. "Prey" just are not appropriate these days; I can't really go there. I just have a hard time when it's right under my nose. Akasha

AAkasha -> RE: I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/24/2010 2:21:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika quote: I wonder if it's because as a single woman, the message wasn't really, "I am not having sex with you ever," it was "I am not having sex with you initially but we can continue seeing each other,then who knows" -- since it was two single people getting together. I absolutely totally get this. The age thing would be a factor for me, but some men have made me feel similar to how you have felt before. Was he a daredevil per chance? - LA I was getting a hard time reading what he was, except that he was familiar with the language of BDSM, curious to find out the extent of my knowledge, and unwilling to let it go - he wanted to make sure I knew he was open to allowing me to see just how familiar he was. It was tempting, but I could see way too many ways it could go wrong. But yeah, he was a very confident man, he was trying to 'get me' to blush or react to his insight. You know those kind of mini-power struggles that are like a game? One of those. Mine field to be sure, but oh so tempting. Akasha

Andalusite -> RE: I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/24/2010 4:05:14 PM)
I've flirted with and dated open-minded nilla guys, or ones who had fantasies but hadn't yet acted upon them, who I met through vanilla circumstances and events. However, I only flirt with guys I'm romantically interested in. I've played casually before, and have a submissive playpartner, and made it clear I'm not into casual sex. Casual play generally isn't very sexual for me, on either side of the whip, but evokes lots of other emotions and reactions. I made it clear when I've bottomed that I would safe out if it got too intense, and as a Top or Dominant, I've backed off or ended the scene if it seemed to be heading too far in that direction. Akasha, if this particular guy seemed like he wouldn't respect your sexual boundaries, I think you're much better off not playing with him. Seekingowner, if someone took my saying that sex was off the table as a challenge to seduce me, whether I met them in a vanilla or a kinky venue, I would dump them so fast their head would spin, and would be furious with them. Once I have made that line clear, then trying to cross it is not acceptable behaviour. Heck, that goes for Dominant or switch men, as well. If a guy can't respect boundaries that have been clearly defined, if he is incapable of keeping his word, I don't want anything to do with him.

fearghus -> RE: I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/24/2010 4:19:39 PM)
No matter how you slice it there is a sexual element to WIIWD. These activities satisfy (or at least play on) sexual triggers in most of us. By slapping this guy around without actual coitus, you are still engaging in an act designed to give you some level of sexual satisfaction. Now - whatever boundries you and your mate have set for playing outside of the marriage are fine, but if YOU feel that what you re doing is cheating - even if your mate doesn't ... then it is still something to carefully consider. As for your outside play partner - anything is fair game so long as you are clear with him that THERE IS NO SEX - and if he needs clarification on that - have no shame in giving clarification!

Andalusite -> RE: I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/24/2010 4:29:03 PM)
For me, casual play is similar to dancing. It can be slightly sexual, but I'm not going to have an orgasm with a stranger on the dance floor, and I don't want to play with his naughty bits or have him touch mine. If he expects me to have sex with him just because we danced together, or did S/M play, I'm going to think he's a jerk. Often, it's more like martial arts, with no sexual chemistry whatsoever, more endorphin rush and a maybe a predatory, primal kind of aggression. [:D]

fearghus -> RE: I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/24/2010 4:45:11 PM)
Interesting comparison! ANd I am reminded of the song 'save the last dance for me' ;) There are some couples that freak out if theirs is dancing with another, and some where its no big deal. Its all about what's right for you!

LadyAngelika -> RE: I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/24/2010 5:00:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika quote: I wonder if it's because as a single woman, the message wasn't really, "I am not having sex with you ever," it was "I am not having sex with you initially but we can continue seeing each other,then who knows" -- since it was two single people getting together. I absolutely totally get this. The age thing would be a factor for me, but some men have made me feel similar to how you have felt before. Was he a daredevil per chance? - LA I was getting a hard time reading what he was, except that he was familiar with the language of BDSM, curious to find out the extent of my knowledge, and unwilling to let it go - he wanted to make sure I knew he was open to allowing me to see just how familiar he was. It was tempting, but I could see way too many ways it could go wrong. But yeah, he was a very confident man, he was trying to 'get me' to blush or react to his insight. You know those kind of mini-power struggles that are like a game? One of those. Mine field to be sure, but oh so tempting. Akasha Ack, first of all, I should not post after a day long seminar at the Uni and little to no sleep the night before. I'm cross-eyed. I mean to say that age would not be a factor. That little not word is pretty powerful. Now without having all the details, he does sound a little daredevilish. You know from my recent thread about those that I'm done with them because really, they never turn out well. But oh my, do they make for hot flirting!! - LA

seekingOwnertoo -> RE: I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/24/2010 8:20:09 PM)
quote: When I was single and in my late 20s / early 30s, this safe flirting dynamic was fairly easy to establish, especially since I like younger men. If I was totally in control of the flirtation, the dynamic, the pace, and clearly the man was falling in line Oh, AAkasha ... You nailed this one right on the head! Back then, in my life ... i was so fresh meat ... LOL ... and You could have said ... do it ... and my response would have been ... yes, Ma'am ... LOL Even if You were the same age or younger! You are a Woman ... And no, i did not mess up the ages ... i was a late bloomer ... [;)] quote: Nowadays, men who are "age appropriate" for me to flirt with are in my age group. They are clearly sexually experienced men. That's I guess what part of the challenge is - and the whole infidelity thing. "Prey" just are not appropriate these days; I can't really go there. I just have a hard time when it's right under my nose. Again, right on the money. The concept of being new and fresh sexually ... is beyond our ability ... and it can never be brought back. Perhaps BDSM is an exciting concept ... to some. Perhaps, new and different to others. But vanilla men at our age are used to hearing .... "no" sexually ... and we have learned how to ... seduce. Even if it is "just" the wife. The same is true .. of Ladies i flirt with in every day life. Some are really good ... at turning it back on the man. The important aspect ... i think is ... one can still mark the "mental" bedpost ... because typically ... with a skilled flirt ... one either is had ... or having. LOL No such thing as an "equal" finish to it ... Yet ... it is fun, either way ... with adults .. quote: You know those kind of mini-power struggles that are like a game? One of those. Oh ... absolutely ... the best! [:)] Then again, You might just be looking for a bigger mouse trap ... with which to catch bigger game. [;)]

sodsta -> RE: I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/25/2010 3:46:21 AM)
quote: Again, right on the money. The concept of being new and fresh sexually ... is beyond our ability ... and it can never be brought back. Perhaps BDSM is an exciting concept ... to some. Perhaps, new and different to others. But vanilla men at our age are used to hearing .... "no" sexually ... and we have learned how to ... seduce. Even if it is "just" the wife. The same is true .. of Ladies i flirt with in every day life. Some are really good ... at turning it back on the man. The important aspect ... i think is ... one can still mark the "mental" bedpost ... because typically ... with a skilled flirt ... one either is had ... or having. LOL No such thing as an "equal" finish to it ... Yet ... it is fun, either way ... with adults .. ...William Shatner? o_0

PeonForHer -> RE: I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/25/2010 5:04:37 AM)
Akasha, I think Otters is right to say that the vast majority of men will abide by the 'no-means-no' rule. Also, I'd bet that a submale would be even less likely to break that rule than his vanilla counterpart. (Heh. My dick goes to sleep if I hear a 'no' and won't come back till it hears a 'I'm so sorry - I want you really!' I've often thought I'm physically incapable of rape . . . .) But, on the other hand, I'm not greatly experienced at having sex with males in general or submales in particular (!) My little hypothesis could be crap. I wouldn't advise letting the domme-drive override the safety-instincts. Fearghus also has a point: sexual feelings may be latent in the sort of play you mention - but they're still very much there.

pyroaquatic -> RE: I don't want to fuck you, I just want to slap you around (4/25/2010 5:57:31 AM)
I am for play and no sex. The act of baby making will not occur until I am nice and ready. Until then, slap me around. I can differentiate between BDSM (which is with a person I trust) and the act of copulation (which is with someone I love and trust).

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