RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space.

RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (Full Version)

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Termyn8or -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 6:09:16 AM)
"misunderstanding over a parking space" Especially when you are going to the "gym" to work out on the treadmill and stairstepper. Shit, you might miss your elevator. T

SohCahToa -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 6:29:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 Actually, carrying a gun constitutes self-defense, hence why we have concealed carry laws. Carrying a gun doesn't constitute anything unless all people carrying guns are treated the same, obviously not the case. Beside which how do you know what permit this guy did or didn't have? "Oh he has a gun so he obviously has a permit." is your assumption. It never ceases to amaze me how people like to judge the precise nature of events that they have sketchy information of.

DomImus -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 8:07:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cadenas carrying a gun constitutes premeditation. You're damned right it does. I have a premeditation to defend myself. quote: if I was on the jury I'd probably vote to acquit the stabber on simple fairness grounds. Yeah, let's just forget the law. "Simple fairness grounds" are much easier to administer. Whoever has the most potent weapon *must* be at fault.

SohCahToa -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 8:12:13 AM)
Well yeah thats true like for example if I had a nuke you'd want me to use it responsibly. Heard the saying: "With power comes responsibility."?

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 8:18:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SohCahToa Well yeah thats true like for example if I had a nuke you'd want me to use it responsibly. Heard the saying: "With power comes responsibility."? Well, of course. You can't go blowing up countries willy-nilly, it has to be confined to countries that deserve it.

Termyn8or -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 8:44:18 AM)
FR "I'd probably vote to acquit the stabber on simple fairness grounds" Are you fucking kidding me ? If not acquit the MF and run into him in a dark alley with the company's daily bank deposit in your pocket. How the hell could you possibly be serious about that. The stabber should be charged with the shooting because he created the situation in which HE NEEDED TO BE SHOT, and I mean fucking dead. Now the guy chased by the cops in hot pursuit who killed someone, maybe not. This was for one, after the fact. Also the situation was not really caused by an act of violence unless otherwise stated. If the dumbass cops run someone over to issue a speeding ticket that would mean that the guy doing 45 in a 25 could be executed, again, this is insane. We need a complete overhaul of the laws, but for that we need a complete overhaul of the people. What's more, the law is not, and not ever will be fair until we make them make it so. To even start we would have to agree on what is fair and it is coming clear that this is easier said than done. The stabber who did it intentionally is to be acquitted because why now ? And I suppose the shooter should be jailed after healing from the crime INTENTIONALLY committed against him because he caused harm ACCIDENTALLY while in fear for his life and injured ? Beam me up Scotty. T

SohCahToa -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 9:20:56 AM)
This was the result of a parking argument, you are talking as if shooting the guy is removing a dangerous criminal from the streets. It's not a premeditated crime in any sense, it's a moment of madness. The man with the knife could just as easily have had a gun but this fact seems to escape you when you are making your arguments about who should be prosecuted. This whole incident demonstrates that nobody can be trusted to carry a gun or a knife and look for a parking space at the same time. Six of one and half a dozen of the other, this is what this is.

DomImus -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 12:23:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SohCahToa Well yeah that's true like for example if I had a nuke you'd want me to use it responsibly. Heard the saying: "With power comes responsibility."? According to cadenas' logic merely possessing the nuke is irresponsible.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 12:27:46 PM)
if i were going shopping at that dekalb mall, i would take body armor, guns, bazookas and anything else i could carry....it is reaching a point that no one wants to go shop anywhere near there...

stella41b -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 12:39:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or Well let me ask you this because you seem to be anti gun. Am I anti-gun because I don't own one? I don't think I've ever encountered a situation in my life where having a gun would have made it better. I have no need for a gun in my life. quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or Where we differ it seems is in the fact that I believe that some people need to be killed True, because I don't think there can be any justified reason for taking away someone's life. If this belief one day causes me to be killed then okay, I'm happy with that. I'm fully prepared to die for what I believe in.

Loki45 -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 1:04:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SohCahToa Beside which how do you know what permit this guy did or didn't have? "Oh he has a gun so he obviously has a permit." is your assumption. I know about the presence of his permit just about as cadenas know about the lack of one and his assumption that a gun automatcially equals premeditated murder.. What was it you were saying again about judging things with sketchy information? [8\|] Guess that only applies to those who are giving a person the benefit of the doubt. I suppose you'd have been just fine had I condemned the guy just like cadenas did, hmm? quote: ORIGINAL: SohCahToa This was the result of a parking argument, you are talking as if shooting the guy is removing a dangerous criminal from the streets. You're right. It's a parking argument where one guy pulled a KNIFE and STABBED another guy. I don't care what the argument is about, there's no excuse for someone to stab someone else. And if someone where to try and stab me for something stupid like that, I'd shoot them to. And according to the law, I'd be more than justified. By the way, what exactly constitutes a dangerous criminal in your eyes? The guy PULLED A KNIFE and STABBED someone. Sounds kinda dangerous to me. Also sounds illegal. Hey....put those together and you have....a "dangerous criminal." Egads.

SohCahToa -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 1:12:14 PM)
The person that stabbed the other could have had a gun. Would you also miss and hit a bystander? To me a dangerous criminal would be one that acts in a premeditated way, you seem to be under the illusion the vast majority of society is civilised. It only takes a parking dispute to place that idea into the realms of myth. You say yourself you are prepared to kill, some will kill for less perhaps? I don't see how allowing people to carry guns in public reduces that? People are the same when they step into their cars, they suddenly turn into arseholes with the red mist.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 1:23:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 quote: ORIGINAL: cadenas Quite honestly, though, in this case unless the actual shooter was also charged with attempted murder, if I was on the jury I'd probably vote to acquit the stabber on simple fairness grounds. Anybody who hits a person with a bullet, even accidentally, should be convicted of attempted premeditated murder - carrying a gun constitutes premeditation. Actually, carrying a gun constitutes self-defense, hence why we have concealed carry laws. If the man with the gun did not have a carry permit, his possession of a concealed weapon can be construed as intent to commit a crime in some circumstances and jurisdictions. Cadenas has a valid point.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 1:25:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b Am I anti-gun because I don't own one? I don't think I've ever encountered a situation in my life where having a gun would have made it better. I have no need for a gun in my life. What about bears?

stella41b -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 1:43:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b Am I anti-gun because I don't own one? I don't think I've ever encountered a situation in my life where having a gun would have made it better. I have no need for a gun in my life. What about bears? I have two thumbs.

SohCahToa -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 1:48:52 PM)
The bear might be wearing safety glasses. Just back from one of those experiments at school; testing reactive elements.

DomImus -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 2:19:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub if i were going shopping at that dekalb mall, i would take body armor, guns, bazookas and anything else i could carry....it is reaching a point that no one wants to go shop anywhere near there... Is Stonecrest really that bad already? I've not been there but it's only a few years old and Lithonia is not really in the middle of the 'hood. Edited to add: And they're fighting over parking spaces at a mall nobody wants to shop at?

DomImus -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 2:22:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b True, because I don't think there can be any justified reason for taking away someone's life. If this belief one day causes me to be killed then okay, I'm happy with that. I'm fully prepared to die for what I believe in. As long as you don't expect the rest of us to lay down our lives in that same fashion I'm okay with that statement.

DomImus -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 2:31:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 quote: ORIGINAL: cadenas Quite honestly, though, in this case unless the actual shooter was also charged with attempted murder, if I was on the jury I'd probably vote to acquit the stabber on simple fairness grounds. Anybody who hits a person with a bullet, even accidentally, should be convicted of attempted premeditated murder - carrying a gun constitutes premeditation. Actually, carrying a gun constitutes self-defense, hence why we have concealed carry laws. If the man with the gun did not have a carry permit, his possession of a concealed weapon can be construed as intent to commit a crime in some circumstances and jurisdictions. Cadenas has a valid point. If it was concealed. There's no information in the story to confirm or deny same. If it was concealed and he has no permit that in itself was a crime. Cadenas would let the stabber walk unless the shooter was also charged with premeditated murder which I believe is murder one. Now charges are conditional even if you draw a knife and stab someone. Whether you are charged is conditional on the other party's response. I guess you're only guilty if the vicitm lies there and lets you stab them to death. Very valid points, indeed.

Loki45 -> RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking space. (4/25/2010 3:28:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SohCahToa Would you also miss and hit a bystander? Unlikely, but possible. While I scored expert with a handgun back in my military days, I've not had many tactical shoot/drawing courses. Anything is possible when a situation has escalated far enough for lethal force to be used. quote: ORIGINAL: SohCahToa To me a dangerous criminal would be one that acts in a premeditated way, you seem to be under the illusion the vast majority of society is civilised. So....in your view Mr. Knife wasn't pre-meditated but Mr. Gun was? That doesn't make much sense. Nor does the end of the sentence where you attempt to address 'society.' I don't believe I've made a claim about society one way or the other. quote: ORIGINAL: SohCahToa You say yourself you are prepared to kill, some will kill for less perhaps? I can only speak for myself. And yes, if threatened with bodily harm or death, I am prepared to make sure the aggressor does not make it home that night. quote: ORIGINAL: SohCahToa I don't see how allowing people to carry guns in public reduces that? No one said anything about guns reducing anything. But bad guys have guns. And they don't pay attention to little stickers on windows that say you can't take a gun inside. I am one who does not want a society where only the bad guys have guns.

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