Hypnosis (Full Version)

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Darandle -> Hypnosis (4/29/2010 7:06:56 PM)

I'll start off by saying that I am an amateur hypnotist and masseur. I am curious where everyone is on the subject around here. Personally, I enjoy using hypnosis as an aspect of dominance, and a way to enhance a scene.




monywildcat -> RE: Hypnosis (4/29/2010 7:49:46 PM)

But wouldn't hypnosis render your sub/slave/insert-desired-adjective-here unable to participate fully?  Wouldn't he/she be under complete control of what your commands may be, without feedback from the one that is hypnotized, while they are under? 

Forgive my ignorance on applying hypnosis into a D/s dynamic or a scene.  To be quite honest, I would find this concept incredibly hot, if I am with someone (like my dear sweet man) that I trust absolutely, to be mindful of my own well-being.  I wouldn't want to be given a command that would violate my trust. 

Please expand on this topic.  [;)]




ResidentSadist -> RE: Hypnosis (4/29/2010 8:21:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: monywildcat
But wouldn't hypnosis render your sub/slave/insert-desired-adjective-here unable to participate fully?

No, quite the opposite. You could use it to release her inhibitions and let her go bat shit crazy doing what feels good and guided only by that morality.




IronBear -> RE: Hypnosis (4/29/2010 9:15:14 PM)

~FR (To the OP)~ I would suggest that possibly a good search on the subject of hypnosis here in the archives will bring to light a whole plethora of useful and interesting information on this matter. My stand has been well documented for years now here as both a psychologist/counsellor and hypnotherapist so there is not much I neither can nor will add to this pot. 




Darandle -> RE: Hypnosis (4/30/2010 12:47:21 AM)

Well, I hate to break it to you monywildcat, Hypnosis isn't some sort magical mind control. Think of it more as a willing surrender. Yes, you can have control over someone, but only what one is willing to give. There are places you can go that other sorts of roleplay, BDSM, and dominance can't go, but full non-consensual control is beyond one's ability. The hypnotic experience varies from person to person. I have been playing with hypnosis for a long while, about 7 years. The various people who have been involved with me and hypnosis have had vastly different experiences. It can enhance a scene, make it much more real for your subjects, you can tie someone down with tissue paper that is as effective as steel chains, in some cases make subjects orgasm on command, or being able to drop someone into a trance mid-coitus.

I was more casting a line to see how I would be treated around here for my tastes.




reynardfox -> RE: Hypnosis (4/30/2010 1:52:09 AM)

Giving someone the freedom to do what they really want to do when they are normally riddled with guilt and anxiety can only be a good thing.
You can't make anyone do anything they wouldn't do with hypnosis, but you can help people relax and get on with enjoying life.
The mind control svengali thing is cobblers, but it makes for a great fantasy game.
If you don't think you can be hypnotised, just look at your bags next time you come in from shopping and ask how many things you have there that you had no intention of buying.




ShoreBound149 -> RE: Hypnosis (4/30/2010 3:24:32 AM)

How do you to turn pro in the hypno community?




IronBear -> RE: Hypnosis (4/30/2010 6:17:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: reynardfox

Giving someone the freedom to do what they really want to do when they are normally riddled with guilt and anxiety can only be a good thing.
You can't make anyone do anything they wouldn't do with hypnosis, but you can help people relax and get on with enjoying life.
The mind control svengali thing is cobblers, but it makes for a great fantasy game.
If you don't think you can be hypnotised, just look at your bags next time you come in from shopping and ask how many things you have there that you had no intention of buying.


Good thought but not quite accurate. A great deal has to do with the technique and if you yse what we could call traditional or pure hypnosis or if you include the use of drugs (drug induced hypnosis). You may find researching the use of hypnosis and drug induced altered states by the KGB. I happen to own a couple of the manuals translated from the original Russian and have done do for several decades now. It is a revelation which echos the techniques I have seen and used in interrogations. This is of course vastly different to hypnotising a willing subject and especially one who has some degree of trust in you.




DesFIP -> RE: Hypnosis (4/30/2010 6:43:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: reynardfox
Giving someone the freedom to do what they really want to do when they are normally riddled with guilt and anxiety can only be a good thing.


I would view it as a bad thing. For the length of the trance they do stuff they normally would not do. And afterward they are confronted by the fact that they crossed their own boundaries, broke their own ethical code.

The guilt afterward would be much worse and there would be justified anger at the hypnotist who took advantage of them. Where is the consent given freely here?




domiguy -> RE: Hypnosis (4/30/2010 6:56:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darandle

I'll start off by saying that I am an amateur hypnotist and masseur. I am curious where everyone is on the subject around here. Personally, I enjoy using hypnosis as an aspect of dominance, and a way to enhance a scene.
quote:

I'll start off by saying that I am an amateur hypnotist and masseur. I am curious where everyone is on the subject around here. Personally, I enjoy usi


I used to mention in my profile that I was an amateur hypnotist. I also said that I was a tremendous lover and masseur.

I would put women under. Make them blow me and eat each other out. I would then leave them with the "hypnotic suggestion" that they had in fact just received the best massage of their lives and that they would immediately drop to all fours and bark like a dog upon hearing the word "domidong rutabaga."

Those were good days, my friend...Very good days, indeed.

Domidong Rutabaga!!!!...............................




sunshinemiss -> RE: Hypnosis (4/30/2010 7:05:47 AM)

*waits to see who "woofs"




Andalusite -> RE: Hypnosis (4/30/2010 8:29:16 AM)

I know a few people who combine hypnotism and BDSM in healthy ways. As far as limit pushing, if the person agrees to it ahead of time, with hypnotism used as a tool to help calm them, fine, but using it to try to force the issue is bad, IMHO. I saw a class on using hypnotism in scenes on our community events calendar, but I don't have the impression you're in my area.




pompeii -> RE: Hypnosis (4/30/2010 9:16:22 AM)

voodoo




CuriousPuppy -> RE: Hypnosis (5/3/2010 5:14:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: reynardfox
Giving someone the freedom to do what they really want to do when they are normally riddled with guilt and anxiety can only be a good thing.


I would view it as a bad thing. For the length of the trance they do stuff they normally would not do. And afterward they are confronted by the fact that they crossed their own boundaries, broke their own ethical code.

The guilt afterward would be much worse and there would be justified anger at the hypnotist who took advantage of them. Where is the consent given freely here?


A lot of the problem with hypnosis boils down to the fact that most of what people know/believe is urban legends and just plain nonsense.  A good bit of what remains can be attributed to a mix of the fact that people tend to talk in general terms and that hypnotists will often let some people believe some of the slightly outlandish stuff they already believe for various reasons that would take a huge block of text to explain.

Sometimes when a hypnotist talks about using hypnosis to help a sub/subject get past the guilt & fear they may have towards a given activity, it's a matter of helping them get past it because the subject wants to.  To take a relatively PG rated example (and I'll try to stick with them), it's not uncommon for someone to say they "really really really want to give oral sex/swallow/whatever, but they can't take the taste/it's too icky to think about/etc and wish they could get past that".  A hypnotist can help with that, it's not any more wrong than helping them get past a fear of spiders, clowns, or heights... in fact it's a fairly similar process in many cases.

Would it be wrong for the hypnotist to make the subject believe he/she is their husband/wife/Dominant/partner instead of whoever they were in order to do something sexual?... yes of course... Would it be wrong for someone's  husband/wife/Dominant/partner to make someone with a fantasy about being with a stranger believe they were with a stranger at that moment?... probably less so than "honey I really want to have sex with a stranger, do you mind?", especially if it's setup in such a way that the subject would know the truth after the fact to avoid potential guilt issues.

If a subject wants to engage in something a little less safe, needle play/breath play/knife play/etc, but isn't ready to move up to the real thing or would never actually engage in it... a hypnotist can help it happen without the risks.  I've used a marker in place of a needle on a subject who wanted it, and they loved it to the point of asking me to do it asking me to do it again at other points in time.

A hypnotist can make things a bit more safe through various means.  Stories about subs being afraid to let their dominant down (edit: in the sub's own mind) and use their safeword when considering it, and other similar things, are not uncommon.  Likewise for those same subs to feel bad about using that safeword.  Giving the subject a strong urge to say green when something is enjoyable and yellow/red as things progress away from there isn't outside the realm of possibility.  Making them feel safe, comfortable, and like they are doing something important when honestly saying those last two is all that much better.  Setting them in a state of trance where you can fiddle with the speed and intensity of events the hypnotist is painting inside their mind (with or without physical aspects) to help the subject be aware of the sort of things you want them to watch for.... sure the Dominant should be watching for various signs and making sure to avoid certain physical things like cutting off circulation, but having the subject simply blurt out "toes!" before they can realize it if their toes tingle can be a good thing.

Yes there are some very unethical things a hypnotist could do, but the same goes for any other form of dominant who has little interest in the sub's general well being.  The premise that a subject is some robotic slave that does and experiences anything the hypnotist tells them to is incorrect at best, especially since the subject is aware of what's being said to them at the time.  Even if the subject doesn't remember anything about what happened to them after the fact, they were still aware of what was being said while in trance.

A subject can and will say no, even when the suggestion was in reference to something the subject wants to do but isn't ready.   No I'm not ready, no I'm scared, no I've changed my mind, no it's too much, no this isn't quite what I had in mind, no I don't want to anymore.  The hypnotist can gently smooth over those fears and doubts to help the subject be ready, to help twist the situation to what the subject did want, to find out what the subject wanted instead... it's not so easy to change your mind while the candle wax is falling through the air towards that spot the submissive said they wanted wax dripped on.  Attempting to use brute force in hypnosis and force the subject past a no will result in the subject dropping out of trance and responding much like they probably would if it were a physical thing.

Finally, you can do some truly enjoyable & amusing things with hypnosis.  Making a masochist numb to pain before a paddling would be difficult (but possible) without hypnosis, making them suddenly feel each and every strike from the paddle they were robbed of all at once when you snap your fingers would be impossible without it.  Making someone orgasm on command without hypnosis is possible, although those methods are just a long drawn out form of hypnosis; doing it with hypnosis allows it to be done faster and with more control... think of it as the difference between being able to install a new doorknob verses being able to rekey a new doorknob to match the deadbolt, both get the jub done, one has more control than the other however.  Making someone drunk or drugged is fairly simple with hypnosis, sure it's not good for a scene... but making them drunk while playing DDR is fun... Making them feel like how it felt when that percocet kicked in after the last one the dentist gave them ran out when they swallow that tylenol you give them? that's an entirely different level of "oh god yes".





DesFIP -> RE: Hypnosis (5/3/2010 5:44:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousPuppy
Sometimes when a hypnotist talks about using hypnosis to help a sub/subject get past the guilt & fear they may have towards a given activity, it's a matter of helping them get past it because the subject wants to.


If I go to a professional hypnotist to stop smoking it's because I want to and I knew what he was going to do - use the hypnosis to help me not smoke anymore just liked I asked.

That's a lot different from some amateur hypnotist who decides  the other person ought to get over her block of having sex with multiple partners because he gets off on gangbangs.

If she knows about it and agrees to it, then there is consent. If she doesn't have the opportunity to agree before hand, then there is no consent.




CuriousPuppy -> RE: Hypnosis (5/3/2010 8:22:36 PM)

quote:

DesFIP
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousPuppy
Sometimes when a hypnotist talks about using hypnosis to help a sub/subject get past the guilt & fear they may have towards a given activity, it's a matter of helping them get past it because the subject wants to.


If I go to a professional hypnotist to stop smoking it's because I want to and I knew what he was going to do - use the hypnosis to help me not smoke anymore just liked I asked.

That's a lot different from some amateur hypnotist who decides  the other person ought to get over her block of having sex with multiple partners because he gets off on gangbangs.

If she knows about it and agrees to it, then there is consent. If she doesn't have the opportunity to agree before hand, then there is no consent.



I just want to make sure I have everything clear in your post before I start...  YKINOK... but mine is fine.  The hypnotist you may or may not have visited is a skilled professional*; anyone who practices hypnosis in a BDSM context must be a creepy amateur and is probably in it because of an interest in "gangbangs".  A hypnotist helping a subject get over whatever is holding them back from doing something the subject wants to do is probably forcing themselves on the subject and decided for the subject.  And... finally... it's probably non-consensual.   Did I miss anything you had hoped to include in your post when guessing about how you think hypnotism probably works in a BDSM setting?

Correct usage of terms is important, Master/Mistress/Owner/Trainer/Sadist/Etc and Pony/Pet/Masochist/Etc are often terms that can be interchanged with Dominant and Submissive without changing the relationship or the person being referenced when talking about hypnotism in a Erotic/BDSM context... but then again... there are plenty of relatively vanilla couples that use it just like there are relatively vanilla Dom/sub free couples with some bondage gear stashed in the closet.  Using the correct term is important, someone into pony play would be wrong to go around calling every submissive a pony, someone humiliation would be wrong to go around calling every submissive their degrading name of choice, someone into D/s would be wrong to call every "pony" into pony play a submissive... the list goes on and on... A submissive may be a hypnotic subject for a hypnotist, but they might not, using the correct term is important to make that distinction and avoid confusion.  When talking about hypnosis (or any other kink) in BDSM context, especially a generic nonspecific one, you will often see the correct term for the same reasons you would see the correct term when talking about any other BDSM related scene.  Those terms are hypnotist and subject for hypnotism, using them does not imply a lack of relationship or that the hypnotist is some random third party being injected into a relationship as you insinuate.

Lets go on... Many of the people involving hypnotism in a BDSM relationship involve it *in a BDSM relationship*, it's a very simple and easy to understand concept.  Not everything done with this sort of hypnosis involves getting past fears and the like, it's just one potential aspect.  It's not unlikely that the vast majority of the people involving it never even get into that sort of thing, people into hard & heavy extreme play tend to be rare... it wouldn't be extreme if it were not rare.  Even the people who are into the heavier sorts of play who care to involve hypnosis don't usually need to get into that sort of thing.  It's far easier for the hypnotist to weave together the whole thing inside their subject's mind, and simply omit the objectionable parts from the mental tapestry they build there or make sure they are stated in a way that won't be an issue (i.e. in a minute, X will happen, you might feel p z and q... but it won't Z or and soon he's going to cum, it won't taste bad, in fact it will be rather sweet and maybe a tiny bit salty, but not at all objectionable to give some very very simple & basic examples).

* New York, the state in your profile, is one of the vast majority of states with basically no laws to say who can and can't call themselves a hypnotist/hypnotherapist or what they can claim.




fluxanything -> RE: Hypnosis (5/4/2010 6:14:04 PM)

Hypnotism at best presents a role play scenario for the insecure to pretend acquiescence, gaining thereby an avenue of abandon whereby otherwise doubtful impulses can be cloaked in a fictional context. I can provide non gratis for anyone interested either a blinking LED emergency light or animated GIF graphic to facilitate the stimulation necessary to claim powerlessness, if it would help to pave the way to doing naughty things under the guise of overpowering influence. In the realm of textile reality, neither pants nor panties actually need an excuse to come down or to be ripped away. Life is a playground so do what you like and to hell with criticism.




VAcontroldom -> RE: Hypnosis (5/4/2010 6:28:10 PM)

Domiguy speaks the truth.  If you go into Grant Park and scream "domidong rutabaga" those still under his post-hypnotic suggestions will make a yipping racket




playfulotter -> RE: Hypnosis (5/4/2010 6:35:54 PM)

Mr. Darandle:  Look...... over the years..so many "so called" Doms have touted there hypnosis  prowess to me and I never found it an attractive proposition....so for you to make that your major thing in your profile.....is rather curious as you should know it doesn't work except on the most mentally needy....Lucky for you there are many of those to go around and lucky for me that is not one of the things I would have fell for...ha ha




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