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The Oft Discussed Old Guard - 4/6/2006 5:12:27 AM

KittenWithaTwist

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Joined: 8/3/2005
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It sometimes baffles me how many people wish to be "Old Guard" or believe they are "Old Guard" or any other number of references to a style of gay leather from the 1950s. Anyway, while looking for more information on Guy Baldwin on the internet, I found a scene profile by Sensuous Sadie. Within it was this quote regarding the "Old Guard" that I felt needed to be shared with everyone who boasts, wishes, or dreams about it.

GUY: "I know that issues surrounding The Old Guard (TOG) remain a hot topic because I'm asked about it endlessly by all kinds of BDSM groups nationwide when they have flown me in to teach classes. I'm convinced that TOG is the most misunderstood single thing in today's BDSM world. The surprise to me is that this remains true despite efforts by the few remaining survivors to de-bunk it.

"Space here doesn't permit me to offer much detail about TOG, but in 2004, I plan to re-publish a long piece I wrote about it years ago that never made it to the Internet, which should help clarify things more. Suffice it to say here, that TOG was a small sub-culture of gay leathermen whose original goal (1950's) was Fellowship (a larger word than first meets the eye) and Fun. By the mid 1960's, it had unintentionally also become the steward and gate keeper-guardian of esoteric mysteries surrounding high-end BDSM. In some, but definitely not all parts of the country, BDSM was practiced in a very formal way by guys who also tended to be rather formal all day long no matter what they were doing. (Sounds exhausting to me, but hell…..people get to choose how they wanna live their lives.)

"Today, it's common to assume that those more formal guys were typical and representative of TOG everywhere, but they were not typical at all---they were the exception, and definitely not the rule. (Please read that again.)

"Sadly, what's been missing in most discussions of TOG is the fact that there were lots of features about the formal parts of that style that simply didn't work well for many who practiced it back then. Not all traditions merit preservation.

"That so many people spend so much energy trying so hard to follow the old, formal ways is, in my opinion, testimony to the failure of our organizations and institutions to help kinky folks find in themselves the courage, creativity and confidence to forge relevant new group structures and more practical paths to erotic fulfillment. We can do better, and we must."

So, there you go. Thoughts, comments, and angry letters-always welcome.

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RE: The Oft Discussed Old Guard - 4/6/2006 5:29:44 AM

SirPrize

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Joined: 11/23/2004
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HOW DARE YOU? Don't you know that EVERYTHING said in chat rooms is absolute truth? Why just the other day, I was put in my place in this very forum and informed of the REAL truth for daring to suggest that all the stories that everyone "knows" about old guard are mere internet created myths. I was told to read Guy Baldwin (genuflect genuflect genuflect) for the one completely accurate absolute truth about the matter. In fact I was told I was not a "real dom" for daring to spout such heresy. Justly chastened, I have sold all my toys, shaved my legs, bought assless chaps, and sent e-mails with a cock pic to every dominant woman in the world offering to worship them forever if they will only let my kiss their feet. And now you tell me it was all for naught?????? Sigh. Does anyone know how long it takes for leg hair to grow back?

< Message edited by SirPrize -- 4/6/2006 5:31:17 AM >

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RE: The Oft Discussed Old Guard - 4/6/2006 6:34:51 AM

Alumbrado

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The operative word being 'was'.

The term today, like so many labels in Wonderla.... er, the lifestyle, means just what the user intends it to mean - neither more, nor less

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 4/6/2006 6:35:54 AM >

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RE: The Oft Discussed Old Guard - 4/6/2006 6:55:10 AM

Wildfleurs

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For me, I use the term old guard to refer to a specific time period of post world war 2 - late 1960s. I think that once you get to the 1970s there was a second wave/generation of leatherfolk. I don't quite get using old guard to refer accurately (earning ones leathers) or inaccurately (walking three steps behind your dominant) to a certain type of protocol. I think thats when it gets confusing and starts to reek of "I need X practice to look solid gold perfect so I'll just refer to it as old guard because I don't quite really know what I'm talking about."

I do wish however that in the old guard discussions that people were more precise with how they meant the term old guard, whether they feel it did or didn't exist, because there are some people like me who mean it to be a time period and there are others that mean it to be a set of particular practices and protocol.

C~

< Message edited by Wildfleurs -- 4/6/2006 7:12:01 AM >

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RE: The Oft Discussed Old Guard - 4/6/2006 7:09:33 AM

thetammyjo

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I will never call myself part of the "Old Guard" because:

I'm not male.
I'm not a gay male.
I'm not a vet of WWII.
I don't ride in leather/motorcycle gangs.
I don't folllow a "military" style protocol.

I know a few "Old Guard" men -- most of them are no longer with us -- and after talking to them, I can't say that those "good old days" were really good by the standards I prefer to apply.

It is important to see the historical connections and to honor these men as starting up some excellent public scene spaces and for publishing a lot of early materials on SM. It is not necessary to see them as a model for later gay men, lesbians, or hets.

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RE: The Oft Discussed Old Guard - 4/6/2006 7:20:08 AM

Evanesce

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LordSaber's BDSM history page

See Jay Wiseman's "Essay about the 'Old Days'", along with several other writings by Jack Rinella, Guy Baldwin and a few others who have actually "been there, done that" when it comes to Old Guard.

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RE: The Oft Discussed Old Guard - 4/6/2006 7:39:03 AM

SirPrize

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce

LordSaber's BDSM history page

See Jay Wiseman's "Essay about the 'Old Days'", along with several other writings by Jack Rinella, Guy Baldwin and a few others who have actually "been there, done that" when it comes to Old Guard.

There is "LeatherHistory" group on Yahoo where many of those you mention as well as others have written extensively. For anyone who is truly interested in the history of WIITWD, I suggest joinging and reading the archives.

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RE: The Oft Discussed Old Guard - 4/6/2006 9:15:03 AM

cravinspankin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirPrize

[There is "LeatherHistory" group on Yahoo where many of those you mention as well as others have written extensively. For anyone who is truly interested in the history of WIITWD, I suggest joinging and reading the archives.

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but i've seen this term WIITWD often here. Can someone please enlighten me as to what it means???
Thanks!

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RE: The Oft Discussed Old Guard - 4/6/2006 9:48:08 AM

BitaTruble

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quote:

Does anyone know how long it takes for leg hair to grow back?

You should be back to your hairy old self in about 6 weeks. ;)

quote:

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but i've seen this term WIITWD often here. Can someone please enlighten me as to what it means???

WIITWD - What it is that we do.

Celeste

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RE: The Oft Discussed Old Guard - 4/6/2006 9:50:29 AM

saltygoodness27

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I really like this page: http://www.leatherarchives.org/exhibits/deblase/timeline.htm
for a sensible, low-BS history of the gay leather culture

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RE: The Oft Discussed Old Guard - 4/6/2006 9:51:48 AM

SirPrize

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cravinspankin

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but i've seen this term WIITWD often here. Can someone please enlighten me as to what it means???
Thanks!

Someone already answered, so I will just add, it's a catch all term. Some people have intense feelings for or against terms like S&M, B&D, BDSM, D&S, leather, et al. So WIITWD includes everyone without trying to define them.

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RE: The Oft Discussed Old Guard - 4/7/2006 4:27:44 PM

scratchingpost

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Joined: 11/16/2005
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I am not quite certain but perhaps people are using the word old guard to denote a high protocol way of life? Perhaps it is more of syntax error from hearing it used elsewhere incorrectly? For instance the term fag does not mean gay (and sorry to those brittish it doesnt mean cigarette either) a fagot (fag for short) means kindling wood. In the olden days they would use gays as well as what they believed to be witches as kindling to start fires. For some reason, the term fag came to mean innappropriately (and often times sadly cruelly) to mean gay. Fantastic, (to use something positive as well) actually is defined as grotesque not something we now see as wonderful. So I think time society etc seems to change the meaning of language and words used in and out of contexts of what suits it for that period of time.

(thinking of a suzanne vega song if language was liquid)

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