RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (Full Version)

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AspX -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 1:20:02 PM)

I first started chatting in BDSM rooms somewhere in the range of a dozen years ago. The first place that I chatted was the BDSM oriented rooms at a site named the-park.com. I would visit there regularly until the site closed to chatting about nine years ago. In those rooms, it was the fashion to Cap and slash. In fact, it was almost the way that you could tell who was respectful of the people and rules versus just a random person looking to either get laid or cause trouble.

Since then, I have been on too many sites to even remember all of them (some defunct... some that still exist). Some, like CM, don't care or even seem to hate that convention (probably because it is more of an online thing than "REAL"). Gorean sites really tend to require the Cap and slash because that is so ritualistic in nature. Its probably also tied to the rooms/sites that have longer traditions, because the ubiquity of cams created a major change in how BDSM people interacted online about five years ago. Before that, the written word was everything and now it no longer seems to matter as much.

<sarcasm>Although, thanks for the obvious respect that you have for others because you personally don't like the convention.</sarcasm> Its one thing to think it is annoying and to say so (like LA did), its another to say that I am just ignorant and the fact that some online people do care about it is all in my mind, after I explain why my first post read the way that it did. Since that first post, I have not used that convention because it is not the culture of these boards. Personally, I don't care whether people do it. I just try to show respect to all people until they show me that they don't deserve it.



domiguy -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 1:26:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AspX

BDSM today is like being gay in the 1970s, there may be places that are accepting of it and you can have a "devil may care" attitude for those people who don't but there can also be severe repercussions for those of us in the "closet".




Go fuck yourself. It is nothing like that.



PrinceBlackHeart -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 4:29:09 PM)

E/everyO/one W/who makes fun of H/his use of C/capitalization I/is beI/ing I/intolerant and should L/learn T/the P/protocol of the O/old D/domI/inI/ion because H/he is V/very S/serious about thI/is On tH/he I/internet.



January -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 5:28:00 PM)

Hi AspX,

You raise some interesting points about pro-dommes (as does LA), but I am confused about your reaction to the whole slash thing. You say that as soon as someone pointed it out, you stopped slashing--in "respect to CM culture".

The best time to learn about an online culture is before you post, not after. (I lurked for months before I posted for the first time). If you had read the forums (including the switch forum) it would have been clear that slashing is not common here, and common sense should have told you it's obtrusive.

So I don't think you have the right to get indignant about how people tell you to knock the slashing off. You've gotten tact, annoyance and outright teasing. This is also part of the CM culture.

January



Jeffff -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 5:30:14 PM)

People are C/crazy



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 6:07:17 PM)

Ummmm... yeah okay...



Andalusite -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 9:12:03 PM)

LP, I do have to agree that going to munches or other public BDSM events does involve some risk of being "outed," even if you use a scene name/nickname. Not everyone who goes there respects privacy, unfortunately, and some people are in jobs where they are able to be out, so there isn't any reciprocal concern over it. Several people who have attended BDSM-oriented events I've been at also share some of my vanilla hobbies/friends, and while most have been respectful, some have called me by my scene name in vanilla circumstances, or called me by my actual name at BDSM events accidentally. One person who worked in the same building as I did, but for a different company, brought up having met me at a playparty while we were outside during lunch. He was pretty discreet about it, and didn't want to be out either, but it was a rather uncomfortable situation. I disagree about personal relationships being high-risk, but I suppose it is possible that someone could get angry after a bad breakup, and decide to spread gossip.



AspX -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 9:18:07 PM)

January,

I don't feel indignant about what people have written (except one) and I have not shot back at anyone because of their feelings on the matter. In fact, I basically complied and my first replies were to explain why I wrote the way that I did and to say that I won't do it again because it seems to upset people here.

AFTER I explained, ReginaMirus (who also only joined in March) basically said that I was full of it and that sites where people do care don't actually exist, except in my head. So, I answered her challenge to name them and then shot back a little. I find it hard to believe that it is not the CM way to be required to take the "tact, annoyance and outright teasing" without being allowed to respond in kind.

As for A/anyone else wanting to pile on with this issue... go for it. I've explained myself and I'll be ignoring any further comments because it is not relevant to the actual purpose of the thread (btw, the slash was intentional and it is called being a smart-ass).



AspX -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 9:22:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


Go fuck yourself. It is nothing like that.


That is a well reasoned and cogent response. Thanks for your input.



LadyPact -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 10:07:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

LP, I do have to agree that going to munches or other public BDSM events does involve some risk of being "outed," even if you use a scene name/nickname. Not everyone who goes there respects privacy, unfortunately, and some people are in jobs where they are able to be out, so there isn't any reciprocal concern over it. Several people who have attended BDSM-oriented events I've been at also share some of my vanilla hobbies/friends, and while most have been respectful, some have called me by my scene name in vanilla circumstances, or called me by my actual name at BDSM events accidentally. One person who worked in the same building as I did, but for a different company, brought up having met me at a playparty while we were outside during lunch. He was pretty discreet about it, and didn't want to be out either, but it was a rather uncomfortable situation. I disagree about personal relationships being high-risk, but I suppose it is possible that someone could get angry after a bad breakup, and decide to spread gossip.

In all of the examples that you've given above, what would you say would be the percentage that it has actually been an issue for you out of all of the people that you have ever met or seen at anything related to BDSM?

Here's how this logic is sounding to Me.  If you want to use the same way of looking at it, nobody should ever date, kinky or not.

Because, some people who date decide that they want to have a committed relationship.

And of those people, some of them will chose to marry. 

And of the people who marry, there will be a significant number of them who will potentially divorce.

And of that number of people who divorce, there will be a portion of them who will drag each other though the mud during the court proceedings, drive them into financial ruin, harass them at their jobs, use their own children as weapons against each other, and come up with every dirty, nasty, despicable trick that you can imagine.  (There really is a reason why some divorce lawyers and ex-spouses have the negative reputation that they do.)

Ergo, nobody should ever date anyone, because they may just end up in that small fraction of people that would complete the chain.  Everybody should be scared to death to date because there is a possibility that they are going to end up with a crazy ex spouse who is out to make their lives miserable.



AspX -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 11:55:15 PM)

I think the point Andalusite was trying to make was that my statements around fearing an impact of becoming known by participating in the community or a relationship may be paranoia, but are not entirely unfounded. Although I am putting words into his mouth, I don't think he was trying to say that this was a reason for everyone to avoid this type of interaction.



LadyPact -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/3/2010 10:57:34 AM)

At the risk of repeating Myself, I never said they were unfounded.  My point is that there is a risk to almost everything, including crossing the street.

For future reference, Anda is female.



AspX -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/3/2010 3:18:30 PM)

...and I am a dumbass (which I am sure people have already figured out)

My apologies to Anda for missing her gender...



LadyAngelika -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/3/2010 3:34:10 PM)

Let me set up a little situation for you. For the record, the situations I'll put forth will be filled with judgements, but they aren't necessarily my judgements - I'm simply projecting what I've observed are society's judgements.

If the truth came out that

A) you were in a pretty regular loving monogamous relationship with a woman and with her indulged in kink behind closed doors

vs.

B) you were a frequent consumer of FemDomme services, paying what is considered by society as escorts or sex workers

Which do you think would be more scandalous?

B - By a long shot.

- LA



AspX -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/3/2010 3:48:26 PM)

LA,

I agree with your analysis that the second scenario would, in all probability, have a greater impact (although how much greater is open to debate, because if it could just be viewed as being with a hooker it could actually have a lower impact... it just depends upon the person making the judgment).

However, when assessing risk there are two different elements to take into account:

The first is the impact of the action in a worst case scenario and the second is the probability that the worst case scenario would occur.

IMO, the probability of detection while being in an LTR (especially in the stages where you are trying to find that life-partner) is much higher than frequenting a pro-domme several times a year.



LadyAngelika -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/3/2010 4:28:12 PM)

AspX, I highly recommend that you deal with your paranoia so that you can live a healthy and happy life.

- LA



Andalusite -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/4/2010 7:57:15 AM)

LP, Asp was right about what I was intending with my post, though he was wrong about my gender. I have played in public, and plan to keep doing so. Having someone use the wrong name for the circumstances or whatever doesn't happen very often, because I don't usually give my real name to anyone unless I meet them outside of BDSM events as well. Of the dozen or so people who do know both my scene and real names, about half of them have slipped up at one point or another, including my Master at the last playparty we attended. So far, it hasn't had any repercussions for me in terms of work (although the guy in the same building made me very nervous/uncomfortable), I don't have kids, etc. I was just saying that a lot of people seem very dismissive about concerns that word could easily get around, and I'd have to say that yes, it is not just possible, but likely that you will have some overlap if you engage in public play.

Asp, I have to agree with LA that you're at far more risk of being outted by going to a pro-Domme than having a kinky relationship. Sometimes they get raided, and you could either be there at the time, or have your name and information in their records.



allthatjaz -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/4/2010 10:01:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Let me set up a little situation for you. For the record, the situations I'll put forth will be filled with judgements, but they aren't necessarily my judgements - I'm simply projecting what I've observed are society's judgements.

If the truth came out that

A) you were in a pretty regular loving monogamous relationship with a woman and with her indulged in kink behind closed doors

vs.

B) you were a frequent consumer of FemDomme services, paying what is considered by society as escorts or sex workers

Which do you think would be more scandalous?

B - By a long shot.

- LA


I would like to make a point here because either can very much go tits up if you get caught.

lets take the loving relationship that turns sour. She (and she won't be the first) is left feeling bitter and vindictive and decides to send pictures and details to the press.

The pro is high risk if he's a well known character but if he's not got the paparazzi on his tail, she is probably the safer option, if chosen well. Half decent Pro Dommes are very discreet, don't take pictures and more importantly don't become bunny boilers.

I would also like to add another potential customer of the pro Domme.... The male sub that has been to all the clubs, munches and parties but never gets to play. Why doesn't he get to play? Well for every Mistress at the club or party there are a number of subs on her tail and if he's not as determined as the rest of them (perhaps he's shy) then he's going to possibly spend years as a wallflower.
I have spoken to many male subs that have been around for a long time but never had so much as a slapped wrist from a Mistress. The answer for them is often to go to a pro.



BoiJen -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/4/2010 10:17:00 AM)

Addressing the actual OP,

One of the ways that some Pro Dungeons are able to censor out any potential "sting" operation is by asking for identifiable information that would be on your ID. When the client arrives information is checked against the ID. If it doesn't match, the client may or may not be given a refund for Dungeon deposit and then sent on his merry way without a session. This little trick is and has been used by escorts for a long time. Even some Pro Dommes who don't operate out of a Professional Dungeon space, maybe their own dungeon, may do this.

Some Pros actually want to be in charge, and while you're free to refuse, if someone like yourself were to contact a few Pros I know, they also ask for a face shot so that they can identify you for the same reasons as asking for ID information. Some Pros, those associated with Pro Dungeons especially, also ask for a deposit because they have to pay the house for the reserved space even if the client doesn't show.

I'm not tryna pick a fight (at least not right now lol) but I just wanted to point out that not everything in your OP is universally true. Obviously, you get to choose which transactions you want to participate in and, at the same time, the Pros get to cover their asses too.

I get the intention behind your OP. I'm not arguing any of that. Just commenting more than anything.

boi



allthatjaz -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/4/2010 10:26:50 AM)

If you work as a pro Mistress in the City of London you are going to be seeing barristers, solicitors, judges, top police officers and even the odd MP. How often do we read about these people in the press? The answer is very seldom. It has happened but its also happened to people that revealed themselves within a relationship.
I know a guy that was blackmailed for 3 years by his ex lover. He was a VIP who had a nervous breakdown when he couldn't get this woman making threats off his back. He eventually outed himself and was asked to quietly retire from his job.
I also know a woman who sent pictures of her ex sub to his employer. On one of their final sessions she had sissied him up and put him in a very compromising position and taken photos. She was not a pro Mistress but his wife..now ex wife. I don't think this sort of thing happens very often but it does and can happen.

If you are not a VIP then the press really have no interest, at least in the UK. Going to a pro Mistress is legal over here providing she is following the rule book and its up to the client to make sure he understands how the law works.



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