RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur

RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (Full Version)

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Silence8 -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 10:53:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Silence8 quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: I studied music at a fairly liberal institution, and can assure you that, although there have been some advances, it's still mostly a place for so-called technical music, both classical and jazz, and more emphasis on classical. Basically the older and whiter your style, the more funding there is going to be, the more jobs available, and on and on. This maybe is what John Cooper Clarke refers to as the 'chronic breath of the dead.' This is a silly game. I've attended on performance scholarships, undergrad and grad, and teach at them. I see everyday how you are mistaken. What's silly is arguing that magically music at the academy doesn't possess these types of biases that I've mentioned. The academy is unbalanced, through and through, just like the rest of society. That doesn't mean that one can't make a place in it, and feel some sense of personal accomplishment. Good for you; I'm too young still to give a fuck. But to deny the biases that ostensibly benefit you demonstrates a lack of an intellectual conscience. I'm thinking precisely of Nietzsche's formulation in 'The Gay Science' (somewhere toward the beginning) which not surprisingly has a lot to say on this thread. This is the same issue, by the way, with the endless reparations thread. People seem to need to believe that the system does not bias them in order to maintain a sense of personal agency and accomplishment. I'm saying that you can maintain that agency while still thinking critically about reality as it really is, for better and (usually?) for worse.

TreasureKY -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 10:53:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brainiacsub quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy But the bigger issue hear is that once again your lack of "critical thinking" has allowed you to post sources that refute much of what you hope to prove. Then you aren't using your critical thinking skills, domi. You specifically said: "There is no way you can possess the ability for critical thinking and then talk about religious beliefs and the impact of God on one's life. The two are not synonymous." I gave you several links of people who were religious and were scientist, then I gave you a link to an article which says that (as of 1997), 40% of scientist believe in God. I think this is sufficient to refute that a belief in God/religion is exclusive of the ability to think critically. Firm And I directly quoted the study in bold that contradicted your claim. btw...the National Academy of Sciences in their poll of qualified scientists last year stated that 94% of scientists are declared atheists (I will try to find the poll data) And how is pointing out a lesser percent contradicting? The issue was dumiguy's statement, "There is no way you can possess the ability for critical thinking and then talk about religious beliefs and the impact of God on one's life. The two are not synonymous." Firm merely pointed to evidence to the contrary. He made no claim. I wouldn't waste time looking for some poll... it doesn't matter what the percentage is.

Silence8 -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 10:57:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery You claim it isn't part of the academy. It is. I see it everyday. How much clearer can I be? If it's cloudy where you live, that doesn't mean there is no sun. In the whole U.S., how many 'department chairs' (or likewise) are in punk music or popular music? Compare that to classical music. (Then, there's this whole issue of what music is more 'important'.... which gets extremely difficult... how to weigh popularity? etc.) It's insane to assume that the system, including the academy, including the music departments, is balanced. It isn't.

Jeffff -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 10:59:10 PM)
I studied music in the clubs in Chicago. It was relevant there too. They were fairly liberal

Musicmystery -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 11:01:40 PM)
It's insane that, by your use, anything is balanced. What would "balance" look like? Truth is, you've an axe to grind, and you're going to grind it, no matter the reality. That and that bias exists. Congratulations. You've uncovered the obvious. And guess what? Bias should exist. Without it, value would be flat. This conversation reminds me of the fucked up parties around Harvard where everybody's trying to slip in the name of some book they hope no one else has read so that they can pretend to be smarter. Dumb, childish, pointless game then too.

brainiacsub -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 11:06:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tigreetsa I kind of agree with the OP about critical thinking and lack of it, but I disagree that the key to theology and spirituality is teaching logical deduction skills. In fact I think it's pointless. [...snipped for brevity...] The post was kinda long, so I don't expect that many will read it (it is a Saturday night), but for what it's worth, I thought it was really good.

Musicmystery -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 11:06:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff I studied music in the clubs in Chicago. It was relevant there too. They were fairly liberal It's what I like about musicians. We don't have these bullshit conversations. Instead, "You play, man?" "Cool." And then we play, all kinds of stuff, listening, learning, exploring, enjoying life and experiencing anew.

Icarys -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 11:09:36 PM)
quote: This conversation reminds me of the fucked up parties around Harvard where everybody's trying to slip in the name of some book they hope no one else has read so that they can pretend to be smarter. Dumb, childish, pointless game then too. Funny you mention that cause that's exactly what he essentially says here lol. Off to bed..hope everyone has a good night. It's hard to find obscure authors that are good... but when you do, you can lord it over your stupid friends for years and years...

Musicmystery -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 11:11:41 PM)
Thankfully it goes away when people are well read for real.

domiguy -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 11:11:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY And how is pointing out a lesser percent contradicting? The issue was dumiguy's statement, "There is no way you can possess the ability for critical thinking and then talk about religious beliefs and the impact of God on one's life. The two are not synonymous." Firm merely pointed to evidence to the contrary. He made no claim. I wouldn't waste time looking for some poll... it doesn't matter what the percentage is. The scientists in the NAS only 7% believed in God. Can either you or firm read? What in the fuck is your problem? This is the article that your idiot husband referenced Only he chose to use "the light" version....It was brief, easy to read and he thought it supported his position. It didn't. What a mope. The article clearly states that more educated a scientist becomes the less they believe. Which does tend to support my initial position. I understand you southerners view an education to be about as useful as teeth. Treasure this is not for you. This is beyond your scope. If I can make a suggestion, since we are talking about "critical thought." Virtually everyone out here is critical of the way that you and firm attempt to think. If it wasn't so funny it would be sad.

Silence8 -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 11:16:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery It's insane that, by your use, anything is balanced. What would "balance" look like? Truth is, you've an axe to grind, and you're going to grind it, no matter the reality. That and that bias exists. Congratulations. You've uncovered the obvious. And guess what? Bias should exist. Without it, value would be flat. This conversation reminds me of the fucked up parties around Harvard where everybody's trying to slip in the name of some book they hope no one else has read so that they can pretend to be smarter. Dumb, childish, pointless game then too. There are a few pretty strange arguments packed together here. You seem to be getting emotional? It's cool. I also possess emotions. But, honestly... bias should exist? Um, no, at least according to the EEOC! Oh, but, wait... since something is obvious, that makes it all right. This is obviously wrong; since it's obviously wrong, does that make it right? [:D] Without bias, value would be flat? Not sure about this one. Fucked up parties around Harvard? Name-dropping? Maybe a while back in the thread, and somewhat consciously, but not now. Obvious diversionary tactic. Again, though, it's obvious... True be told, my axe to grind, if there were one, isn't with music departments. That doesn't change the fact of the argument. You mention circular reasoning while employing it yourself -- who's to say said axe isn't justified, just as justified as your smug self-satisfaction?

Musicmystery -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 11:19:20 PM)
You're too smart for me. I'm turning in so I can study up, maybe one day achieve your heights. I know, not likely, but I can dream.

Silence8 -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 11:22:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff I studied music in the clubs in Chicago. It was relevant there too. They were fairly liberal It's what I like about musicians. We don't have these bullshit conversations. Instead, "You play, man?" "Cool." And then we play, all kinds of stuff, listening, learning, exploring, enjoying life and experiencing anew. Notice, everyone, how the exact same argument works for drug use. No bullshit conversations. Instead, 'You blow, man?' 'Cool.' And then they do all kinds of drugs, and don't have to worry about the complexities of reality. The drug revolution of the 60s proceeded the failure of the social revolution. Here's the same story, in parable form.

Musicmystery -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 11:22:56 PM)
I wasn't aware that doing drugs took skill. But I'll take your word for it.

Silence8 -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 11:23:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery You're too smart for me. I'm turning in so I can study up, maybe one day achieve your heights. I know, not likely, but I can dream. Nice. Finish with a personal attack.

Musicmystery -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 11:25:05 PM)
That's an attack? I know you would never do so, though. I should learn from you.

Silence8 -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 11:26:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery I wasn't aware that doing drugs took skill. But I'll take your word for it. And suddenly skill is incorporated into the conversation? And thinking doesn't take skill? And everything that takes skill is valuable? I should be able to criticize the academy -- I'm not the only one -- without that being perceived as a personal attack on one individual within it. And you can be a member of the academy while still criticizing it. You're the one making abusive argumentation, to everyone in this thread, not me.

Silence8 -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 11:28:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery That's an attack? I know you would never do so, though. I should learn from you. Never do what? You're making the claim that I'll never achieve my dreams, or whatever, and I'm not supposed to take offense?

Musicmystery -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 11:28:40 PM)
You compared playing music to doing drugs. Obviously I wasn't able to follow your clever argument. Sorry about that. I'll try harder.

Musicmystery -> RE: Critical Thinking & Logical Deduction Are Becoming Extinct Like The Dinosaur (5/1/2010 11:30:13 PM)
quote: You're making the claim that I'll never achieve my dreams, or whatever, and I'm not supposed to take offense? You'll have to show me where I did that--I missed it.

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