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RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/3/2010 10:32:34 AM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: January
I'm confused about why you are excited by the concept of RACK. RACK is an ethical framework for play. Not play itself.


When I first kearned about RACK as an ethical framework, I ws quite excited too. Until then, people had been telling eme verything always had to be safe (and sane, and consensual), while basically, a lot of the fun stuff can't be done safe, and sometimes is questionably sane. Which leaves the C, which to me is the most important aspect of BDSM. So yeah, I can understand people being excited.

(in reply to January)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/3/2010 10:35:26 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Guilty1974

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackcords

[grins]
I accept your opinion and respectfully suggest that you stay well away from ropes.

I think you might be happier that way.



Actually I run a rope bondage website, organise an annual rope bondage camping, teach paid tuition and perform at fetish shows. So if you don't mind, I respectfuly disregard your advice to stay away from ropes. I also suggest you take note of GreedyTop's post, as he seems to have gotten the message way better than you.


You guys are fighting over rope bondage???? I never even considered rope bondage as anything dangerous. Only fun and a huge turn on.

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/3/2010 10:43:32 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		whenever I meet up with a woman I wear a wire, have several prearranged safe calls, and have taken a very large dose of cipro before our meeting.

I inform her not to make any sudden moves that might be construed as overly aggressive. I always keep my back to the wall and be sure check out my surroundings before I enter any establishment. I maintain a clear line of sight to all of the entrances and exits just in case I have to suddenly depart or feel the need to be extracted.

If I ever say the key phrase "Domidong rutabaga" that is the signal for the extraction team to move in.

I am all about RACK and SSC and getting "in and out" safely.

_____________________________



(in reply to Guilty1974)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/3/2010 10:55:17 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackcords
RACK does not mean unsafe. RACK emplies that there is risk involved.

I mean no disrespect to the views of any, but I will draw attention that there is a risk in pouring peanuts into your palm and tossing them into the back of your oral cavity.

If you are going to play with ribbons, candlelight and a feather in the safety of your own bedroom, get informed.
If you want to bungee jump while already suffering a backinjury, get informed of the consequences. If you STILL want to do it, very well. Just gather as much information as possible and then decide if it is for you.

8)


I get the feeling that the above is really the whole point.  At least it would be in My case.

I consider Myself to be a RACK player.  This is a little different from those who prefer calling it SSC (safe, sane, and consensual).  In My opinion, the difference between the philosophies is that I accept that there is risk (however great or small) involved in what I do involving BDSM.  As a top, it is My responsibility to educate Myself to be aware of those risks and attempt to minimize them before I consent to participating in the kink.

The only reason that I start that phrase with 'as a top' is because I am a top and I don't bottom.  Not because I feel the responsibility is any less for the bottom to be educated about the risks before they consent to playing.  Just because you aren't the one tying the knots doesn't mean that you shouldn't be aware of exactly what risks are involved.  You need to have that information and awareness before making a conscious decision to consent.  Let's face it.  If something would go wrong, guess who gets to live with it? 

I'm not trying to be the safety police here.  OP this whole thing should be exciting for you and I hope that everything works out great.  At the same time, I'm betting that more people know the risks of choking on peanuts than they do about the potential dangers of being tied up.


_____________________________

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(in reply to Blackcords)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/3/2010 10:56:46 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		In my mind, RACK is an attempt to take the fluffy and ill-defined terms of SSC and bring it more in line with the science of risk management. The general concept is that risk can never be eliminated. In addition, anything you do to mitigate risk typically has associated costs (not limited to the financial). So instead of attempting to eliminate risk, one attempts to manage it so that the benefits of the risk and potential perils are in balance.

In the end, one does not have "experience" with RACK (unless someone has formalized it way more than I know). It is just some buzz words. I suppose if you were trained in formal risk management you could say you had "experience" in it, but honestly that'd be overkill for this problem.

Proper application of RACK would "take away from the risk factor" where the risks were inappropriate. It might also add to the risk factor where that was appropriate.

My 2c worth

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to NastyKim33)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/3/2010 11:10:55 AM   
Falkenstein


Posts: 187
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		Well starbucks/BN as a first meeting place beats the last ones I got as answers:

- In your dreams!
- How about the Central Police station?
- The Institute for the mentally deranged
- In hell, on a blizzard day.

I always let the woman propose a place of her choice, but sometimes they do not have anything prepared -- or are not interested in their own security. Here we do not have Barnes and Nobles and I boycott Starbucks, thus, I suggest the lobby of a big hôtel, within the same place, there is a bar, a restaurant, and the atmosphere of cocooning luxury helps the woman relax.

_____________________________

Henry,

Part of that power which still
Produceth good, whilst ever scheming ill.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/3/2010 12:25:01 PM   
January


Posts: 891
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

So yeah, I can understand people being excited.


Hi Guilty,

But is that why the OP is excited?

January

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(in reply to Guilty1974)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/3/2010 12:48:03 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		xxx

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 5/3/2010 12:52:27 PM >

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I give good thread.

(in reply to January)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/3/2010 1:08:31 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

I believe, even at this early stage you should have a 'safe friend'. A safe friend is someone you can inform of your meet. Tell her/him where your going, what the guys name is (though at this stage it may well not be his real name) and give a picture to. Tell her what time your meeting and how long you expect to be and ask her to call you an hour into the meet and that you will call her back when the meet is over and if you don't call her she must be concerned. Do not let him walk you home.


Also keep in mind that this won't stop him from hurting you, but your friend will be able to give the cops some leads, so they will know where to start looking for the body.


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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/3/2010 3:39:05 PM   
Blackcords


Posts: 13
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline

I stand corrected.

I am curious why your original post response seemed so derogatory about ropes and rope use, but perhaps that was more directed at people who cannot use them well. I would welcome the opportunity to discuss these matters more fully with you - should you wish - but let's do it off topic. The OP has a different point and I do not wish to hijack the thread.

A later responder appeared to think we were fighting over rope bondage. I do hope I have not given that opinion. It would be a lesser world if we all shared only one opinion on anything. Reasoned, rational debate is a useful thing. I hold that ropes can be safe, with sufficient skill and choice of material. I would be happy to discuss the matter with anyone, off-thread, if anyone has sufficient interest.

Again, no flaming was intended and I trust no offence was taken at My opinion.

(in reply to Guilty1974)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/3/2010 3:52:26 PM   
Blackcords


Posts: 13
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline
>> Proper application of RACK would "take away from the risk factor" where the risks were inappropriate.
>> It might also add to the risk factor where that was appropriate.

That is an interesting facet. Most would consider reducing the possibility of risk to mitigate the effects of exposure. However, turning that on its' head, could proper use of RACK increase the possibility of acceptable risk to cause a corresponding increase in excitement or pleasure?

Worth a new thread in its own right !

And for the record, I DO have qualifications in risk assessment and risk management.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/3/2010 4:15:02 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

In my mind, RACK is an attempt to take the fluffy and ill-defined terms of SSC and bring it more in line with the science of risk management. The general concept is that risk can never be eliminated. In addition, anything you do to mitigate risk typically has associated costs (not limited to the financial). So instead of attempting to eliminate risk, one attempts to manage it so that the benefits of the risk and potential perils are in balance.

In the end, one does not have "experience" with RACK (unless someone has formalized it way more than I know). It is just some buzz words. I suppose if you were trained in formal risk management you could say you had "experience" in it, but honestly that'd be overkill for this problem.

Proper application of RACK would "take away from the risk factor" where the risks were inappropriate. It might also add to the risk factor where that was appropriate.

My 2c worth


I'd like to expand on what you wrote as you are on the right track I think.

A basic tenet of risk management is that you have to first be able to identify the risk and then you have to determine if you can minimize it, which is the degree of control you have over the risk. Another tenet is that you have to identify what are the probability of the outcome of the risk occurring and what would be the impact. All together, this determines the risk factor.

My quick and dirty risk calculator is this:

Risk factor =

Degree of probability (scale of 1-3) x Impact (scale of 1-3)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Degree of control (scale of 1-3)


The lower your risk factor, the better.

As Jeff pointed out, unless you become an expert in risk management, you cannot proclaim to have experience in RACK. What you can have is experience in identifying risks related to certain activities. If you are a rope aficionado, you are more likely to know risks associated with rope than with a rope newbie.

As January said on the previous page, RACK is an ethical framework for play, not a form of play.

- LA


_____________________________

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(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/3/2010 4:49:44 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		- fast reply to the thread -

From what I have seen, it is profoundly foolish (i.e., not risk-aware) to post on a message board about a brand-new, or young, relationship.  One-way ticket to Dramaville.

Consider this a word to the I-wish-you-were-wise.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/3/2010 4:51:58 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

- fast reply to the thread -

From what I have seen, it is profoundly foolish (i.e., not risk-aware) to post on a message board about a brand-new, or young, relationship.  One-way ticket to Dramaville.

Consider this a word to the I-wish-you-were-wise.



I concur.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/3/2010 5:17:44 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackcords
And for the record, I DO have qualifications in risk assessment and risk management.
Me too. And anyone involved in risk management knows the goal is not to minimize risk. The goal is to maximize net benefit counting both the positives of the activity and the potential negatives from the risk.

As I used to laughingly say back in my corporate job, "Well, we could just cut all the lines, fire all the employees, and pour concrete over the buildings and then we'd have 100% data security. As an unfortunate side effect, we'd also be doing no business."

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Blackcords)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/3/2010 7:47:32 PM   
eihwaz


Posts: 367
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
The goal is to maximize net benefit counting both the positives of the activity and the potential negatives from the risk.

Nicely put.

In the risk management methods I know, the means of managing identified risks are:
  • mitigate
  • assign (e.g., insurance)
  • accept
  • ignore (some would say)
My understanding of the intent of risk management is to enable conscious, considered decisions about risks identified through a structured, methodical process.



(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/3/2010 10:15:12 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Guilty1974

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackcords

[grins]
I accept your opinion and respectfully suggest that you stay well away from ropes.

I think you might be happier that way.



Actually I run a rope bondage website, organise an annual rope bondage camping, teach paid tuition and perform at fetish shows. So if you don't mind, I respectfuly disregard your advice to stay away from ropes. I also suggest you take note of GreedyTop's post, as he seems to have gotten the message way better than you.


pssssssst..I'm a SHE ;)

BC.. I think that the rope thing was just an example that many here could relate to, as opposed to, say, gun play with a loaded weapon.

_____________________________

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CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to Guilty1974)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/3/2010 10:42:43 PM   
aldompdx


Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		RACK, SSC, and SSICK are roughly similar.
Risk Aware Consensual Kink
Safe Sane Consensual
Safe Sane Informed Consensual Kink

The issues of safety discussed above are non-sequitur. The very act of living is "unsafe": e.g., SIDS, slip and fall, struck by lightning.

In BDSM, safety is relative to probable outcome and duty. These principles are well developed in common law negligence.

Statistically, most "dangerous" BDSM activities are far safer than driving a car to the place where you engage in the "unsafe" conduct. Much of the hyperbole around the difference between "Riak Aware" and "Safe" is fear mongering and paranoia. Like the US$ billions spent on the U.S. airport security show -- less than 1 person dies every day from airplane terrorism, while 116 U.S. automobile drivers die every day, and over 400 smokers. People hunger for sensationalism, and ignore real facts.

Trust is more often misplaced than it is breached. Gain confidence over time. Patience is a virtue.
YOU are ultimately responsible for your safety. Use your SAFEWORD, periodically conduct a safeword test, and be very confident that it will be respected.

"Informed Consent" is a higher standard than mere awareness or sane consent. Know your limits, and know that they are clearly understood by your partner. A limit is always "hard." A limit is not a preference, desire, hope, or prayer. A limit is not negotiable, as may be a "soft" preference.

Surrender is by ongoing free choice from self will.
Be responsible.

(in reply to NastyKim33)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/4/2010 10:29:54 AM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop
pssssssst..I'm a SHE ;)


My apologies, that was a horribly male chauvinist assumption

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Risk Aware Consentual Kink (RACK) - 5/4/2010 2:14:32 PM   
AlexandraLynch


Posts: 778
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline 		I have always felt that RACK was how you do the things that are skirting the edge of safety, with things that, if they go wrong, can go REALLY wrong.




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I use fastreply. Don't take offence where none is meant.

Just because I'm not a bitch doesn't mean I'm not perfectly capable of making sure you'll be very sorry if you disobey.

(in reply to Guilty1974)
Profile   Post #: 40
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