RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any...

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herfacechair -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/24/2010 6:29:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Fuck, I was confident he got blowed up. I'm bummed. Ditto. If you've known people who served, or are currently associated with anybody that served, you would've never wished that on someone that you don't personally know. Every person I've known/met, who have friends/family in the military, never wished for my harm... they wished me luck and prayed for my safe return. Your posts here indicate that you were pulling things out of your azz when you came up with your stories about the "people" that you "knew" who "served" overseas. I'm still laughing at your "boom boom boom" story.

herfacechair -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/24/2010 6:32:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff I would have guessed friendly fire. Unlike the 180 degree difference between what you think is the case, and the actual facts, my battles' aims are close to being on point, or right on target. I wouldn't be here if their aim was as off target as your comments on this thread are.

herfacechair -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/24/2010 6:40:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I'm going to say thank you for your service. I haven't read the whole thread. I read the first two pages and picked it up again from the entry as of 6/22. Normally, I would read the whole thing, but I don't have the time to invest just now. Here are My questions for you: I'm a bit confused that you were on leave at the beginning of May and now back in Iraq for what you say is two years. Am I misunderstanding you to mean that you are now home for two years? I'm a bit confused about your term of deployment (as far as I know, nobody is being assigned in theater two years) because your leave would only be within a certain timing parameter. Clear it up for Me, please? Yes, you're misunderstanding me, I never said that I'll be in Iraq for two years, what I actually said: "I'm back, this time for 2 years instead of 2 weeks!" --herfacechair "So even if I don't get back to you as a result of my going back to Iraq, "I'll get back to you and everybody else on this thead, when I get back... which will be weeks after I get back there." -- herfacechair quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Also, I'd appreciate it if you can save Me the time of reading the whole thread to answer something else. How do you feel the balance has weighed out during this thread regarding support for the military? Have you received more comments thanking you for your service than those who are attacking you for it? What I said earlier in this thread: "The majority of the posters on this message board are either immediately to the left of center left to the far left. Those that are in the center, and to the right are in the minority on this message board." -- herfacechair I'm arguing from the center right, which draws comments mainly from people on the far left, some from people in the center left. Together, these are the people attacking me, their posts constitute the majority on this thread. There were plenty of posters that came here and thanked me for my service. One of them wasn't sincere about it, as evident by her turning around and attacking me. Another one was being sarcastic when he "thanked" me. Both of us are arguing with him right now. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact How many times during the course of this thread have you wanted to remind folks that, as a member of the military, your first job is to obey your command? I think people forget that sometimes. The truth is, even if you didn't believe in what was happening in Iraq, by your oath, that's where you're going to go when you're told. I'm guessing by the length of the thread, you probably haven't done that, but I'm wondering how many times you wanted to say it? What I said on this thread, in June 22, 2010 (6/22): "I do what I do for the reasons I've debated here and elsewhere. My bosses didn't tell me what to think. I came to my conclusions on my own... and so have the vast majority of the troops that have deployed to Iraq, and they came to this conclusion on their own... Go screw yourself if you honest to God think that this is why we're (military) overseas, 'because I'm a soldier, I follow orders, that's what I do.' Your comment is equivalent to someone taking a shit on a soldier's grave, or spitting on their faces as they arrive back to the states, because you know what?" -herfacechair "Those soldiers that died, did so because they believed in the cause that they fought for. Not because their bosses 'told them' what to think, not because they were just 'following orders.' Far from it. If you could only see and feel the excitement in the air as soldiers are about to deploy to the combat zone... ready to do what they were trained to do... you guessed it... to send the bad guy to hell... you'd have a hard time holding onto your assumption as to why we willingly go to do these things." --herfacechair After you read these two, go back to the last sentence of the first quote, that's how I see things when someone implies, or suggests, that I'm doing this because I'm ordered to do it. This will tell you why I didn't take the "following orders" approach. The number of times I wanted to do it? ZERO. Here's a way that you could emphasize with me when someone implies that I'm doing this "because I'm following orders." How would a woman feel if, say, someone told her that the reason she cooks is that she belongs in the kitchen, her sole purpose in life is to serve/pamper her husband, and that she should just shut up and hand her husband a can of beer so that he could enjoy it, and the game, without interrupting noise. If any woman reading that gets real pissed, then she'd have a fraction of an idea of what it feels like to be told that I'm doing what I'm doing "simply because I'm following orders."

herfacechair -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/24/2010 6:45:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Lt general hurtling says you are full of shit. http://undertheradar.military.com/2010/03/army-thinks-video-games-made-recruits-soft/ Hello thompsonx, I'm kind of glad that you posted this. I know that it is a link that you have posted, and we've disagreed with before. I thought I'd take this opportunity to include a personal update. As you may remember, we were discussing this point on another thread where the issue of recruitment came up. It was about twelve weeks or so ago. While I couldn't necessarily post links about it, we had a difference of opinion, which I was basing only on personal experience of My son's recruitment and what I was observing because of such. Last week, I returned from a trip to Columbus, GA (Ft Benning) to be at his graduation. Now, of course, I'm not some great military mind, but again, I'm going to disagree with your ally Lt General Hurling. If those men that I saw standing on the field, My son included, were "soft" when they went in, they sure weren't on that day. They were damn physically fit. There's no question in My mind that they were in better shape than their civilian counter parts. Perhaps Lt General Hurling should attend more graduation ceremonies. Thomsonx, do you see what I've bolded in red in LadyPact's post? When you asked me about my satisfaction of the quality of recruits that I'm getting, THAT's what your question was talking about. And THAT's one of the reasons to why I told you that I have no major complaints. The people reporting to my unit either come from other units, or from Infantry OSUT, which happens to be in Fort Benning Georgia. LadyPact attended the graduation of a bunch of new infantrymen from Infantry OSUT. LadyPact, he's taking his sources out of context to make a strawman argument. The articles didn't support his argument. His question to me was about the quality of recruits that I'm getting. We'll, I was in Iraq when he asked that question. By logical extension, his question applied to soldiers arriving to their first permanent duty station. The soldiers that I was getting? Same as those that you saw on the parade field; hence, my originally telling him that I had no major issues with the quality of privates that I was getting. (hey, did you enjoy the Infantry Squad demo? [:D]) In response, he linked to an NPR article. In that article, a flag officer talks about changes in BCT to focus on what the soldiers will face when they ultimately deployed. He also acknowledged the shift in attitudes, to include habits and fitness. He addressed how he was going to adjust training to get them up to par. This was intended for when they go through BCT. You're replying to a post generated by a man who insinuates that he combat deployed to Vietnam. Had he been a veteran, he would've seen from that article what I pointed out in this thread in response to his bringing that link up.

herfacechair -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/24/2010 6:49:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx General hurtling is neither my ally nor my friend. He is the general in charge of recruitment and training for the army. If you disagree with his assessment of the recruits he is getting perhaps you should contact him or even better his superior and tell them how fucked up you think he is. Let's take a trip down memory lane: "What is the quality of the new recruits being sent to you?" -thompsonx The general is in the United States, and is in TRADOC. I was an infantryman deployed to Iraq when you asked me that question. You didn't ask me for my satisfaction of the recruits that the AG's at BCT were getting. Both LadyPact and I addressed the subjects of your argument, the privates I was getting. Your article didn't address the privates I was getting, it addressed the day one privates the AG's were getting. What you're doing is advancing a straw-man argument. Again: Person A advances "X." Person B advances "Y," which is a distorted version of "X." Person B argues against "Y," hence "Y" is "wrong." Since "Y" is "wrong," "X" is also "wrong." I recommend that you start "grasping" for some integrity instead of them straws. If you go to the "Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist?" Thread, you'd see a post, by marie2, that summarizes people like you up: "Why do people think it's ok to strawman anything? It's an argument strategy. Why do people think it's ok to riddle their arguments with with sarcasm, insults and venom? It's all smoke and mirrors put into effect in an effort to "win" something that they perceive as a fight. Why? Because their over-inflated egos make it impossible for them to have a discussion of disagreement without playing games. -marie2 thompsonx: I have mentioned before that I would agree to disagree on this subject since you are not willing to consider any point besides your own opinion...if that wont work for you then you might consider using the block button. You need to do what you preach. Our exchange here indicates that you're not willing to consider any point besides your own. This is the case with the majority of the posters that are arguing against me. When confronted with evidence proving you wrong, you resort to straw-man arguments just so that you could think that the other side of the argument is "wrong" and that your side of the argument is "right." Seems to me that you have issues with more than one person arguing with you. Since she's providing something of substance, she has every right to post on my thread, just as I have every right to keep coming back to destroy the opposition's argument. Why does she have to put you on block? Why don't you put her on block so that you don't see her posts?

herfacechair -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/24/2010 6:52:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy I did read it. But this guy is a spokesperson- where as HFC was THERE! Obviously you did not read it or the associated links to the npr interview. The article is not about who has or has not been to the sandbox it is about the general who is in charge of recruitment and training of the army and his assessment of the quality and quantity of the recurits available to the army. Why you feel his presence in the sandbox has any bearing on his job is beyond me. Actually, the article's main thrust is on a general's effort to change BCT to reflect the current realities, as the current BCT format predominately trains for the Cold War. It also emphasizes how he was going to adjust the training to whip a current generation of recruits into shape before they graduate BCT or OSUT. The results are what I'd receive, hence my answer to your question still being applicable. His presence in the Middle East has every bearing on this discussion, as you asked me for the quality of privates that I was getting, not the quality of recruits that the general's AGs were receiving. I was in Iraq, not at a TRADOC command.

herfacechair -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/24/2010 6:54:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Yes- but was he THERE? You have to talk to someone who was actually there. Not some pencil pusher. He is hardly a pencil pusher. When he was in iraq he lead the 1st. AID. He has been awarded the purple heart w/oak leaf cluster (that means he has been wounded multiple times in different engagements. He has been awarded the bronze star with three oak leafs meaning multiple awards. If you would like to read up about this "pencil pusher" you can go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hertling#Major_Decorations_and_Badges With what you're attempting to argue, this doesn't help you. Despite the fact that he deployed for Operation Iraqi Freedom, he's not there RIGHT NOW. He's part of/associated with TRADOC, RIGHT NOW. The reason I point this out is because you asked me for the quality of recruits I was getting, not the ones that the general was getting.

herfacechair -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/24/2010 6:58:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LanceHughes Maybe, just maybe, a Mod (remember: "Mod" spelled backwards is "Dom.") will come along and close it before page 50. I've got 46 in the pool. Since we're on 38, 46 is a little late, but when I went to buy my ticket, that's all that was left. Since you thanked me for my service, both "here" and "there", you should support my right to keep posting here, and not wish that this thread gets closed. This thread will die on its own, as they usually do; there's no need to close it. I've looked forward to posting on this thread while I was in Iraq. I don't need to be denied the opportunity to carry this conversation till completion.

thompsonx -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/24/2010 8:19:46 PM)
quote: quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx You come across as the type of person that my dad knocked to the ground when he was serving in Vietnam. Oh my aren't you the proxy bad ass. If your father would have been that foolish, after the corpsman got done with him he would be facing an article 128. No proxy about this, you come across as the person that got his ass knocked to the ground a lot. Apparently, you've never had the opportunity to see Navy SEALS do combatives, or fight period. Let's put it this way. There would've been two hits, my dad hitting you, and you hitting the ground. You wouldn't have realized that until you regained consciousness. Your chain of command would've laughed at your attempts to bring him to an Article 15/Captains Mast/NJP. They probably saw you as someone that needed an attitude adjustment. So, after the corpsman got done with you, you would've suffered humiliation as you attempted to write him up. This is another thing that causes me to question your claims. Ass beatings were a common form of correcting training during your "time in." According to an E8, now retired, there weren't as many instances of NJP back then as there were later on. Most issues got resolved via wall to wall counseling. This was the case into the 90s. Here's the best case scenario for you. If you did serve, you come across as someone that either didn't deploy outside the United States, or someone who did a routine deployment to Korea or Germany. If you were a Marine or Sailor, you probably just did routine WESTPACS (non combat related) or MED Cruises... you don't sound like you served in Vietnam. That is the difference between amatures like yourself and the professionals. The ucmj is the "book" and punks who think barracks justice is how the military works do not understand the word discipline. Discipline is the difference between a mob and professional warriors. You obviously are part of the former which may be the reason for your singular lack of success in your current endeavor in the sandbox.

thompsonx -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/24/2010 8:25:05 PM)
The general says he is getting a bunch of computer game playing pussies. Spin that how you choose. The general says you are full of shit

thompsonx -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/24/2010 8:32:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: herfacechair quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Thompson, quit believing the media. STOMP This general hurtling guy is the general in charge of recruiting and training of recruits. He is not the media. You acknowledged that I was back in Iraq, then you asked me questions about the quality of "recruits" that I'm getting. So what do you do in your failed attempt to prove me "wrong'? You brought someone up that was STATE SIDE when I was DOWN RANGE! I am sure you have a point but if you keep your hat on perhaps no one will notice. Two different places! He's part of TRADOC, while I'm in a LINE UNIT. Two different places, two different missions. He was there now he is here. He is a three star general with decorations for spilling his own blood and spilling others blood. Now he is charged with recruiting and training your replacements and you do not seem to feel he is qualified to offer his assessment. Perhaps they should make you the general and him the rifleman since you are obviously so much more qualified than he. So bringing that TRADOC general up was nothing but a red herring. It did absolutely nothing to back your case, or prove mine "wrong." It simply shows your desperation. He is the one who says you are full of shit and I am prone to agree with him Your question asked about the quality of new soldiers I was getting... meaning, the quality of new privates reporting to us while we were in Iraq (or to our line unit). You didn't address my reply at all with those links, or your response. The general thinks you and your opinion of the quality of the replacements is flawed

thompsonx -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/24/2010 8:36:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: herfacechair quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Yes- but was he THERE? You have to talk to someone who was actually there. Not some pencil pusher. You might want to read the article and the associated links before you disagree with them. Actually, pahunkboy was right in that post. You have to talk to someone that's downrange, either currently or recently, or someone stationed in a line or operating unit, not someone that's removed from the scenario in your question. Remember, you asked me about the quality of people I'M receiving. I'm in a line unit, I was downrange when you asked that question. You referenced a TRADOC soldier. You might want to read the articles that you linked to before telling other people to read those articles. Lets see he was there. He is a three star general. He is a west point graduate. And you know more than he does....you are really full of yourself. Maybe you should email him and tell him how full of shit he is?

thompsonx -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/24/2010 8:39:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: herfacechair quote: ORIGINAL: Zevar Greetings HFC: In reading this thread that you began I was reminded of the following: "Many soldiers are led to faulty ideas of war by knowing too much about too little." *General George Smith Patton, Jr., U.S. Army* Negative numbnuts, that wasn't meant for someone that has combat deployed, who subsequently relayed his experiences in a discussion and debate. What I'm doing here is not that much different in concept than what Patton or others like him did when they came back. No you are exactly the myopic moron patton was referencing

thompsonx -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/24/2010 8:44:31 PM)
quote: You're replying to a post generated by a man who insinuates that he combat deployed to Vietnam. Had he been a veteran, he would've seen from that article what I pointed out in this thread in response to his bringing that link up. I did not insinuate anything. I said I spent a couple of years in vietnam...1965-67

thompsonx -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/24/2010 8:46:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: herfacechair quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Yes- but was he THERE? You have to talk to someone who was actually there. Not some pencil pusher. He is hardly a pencil pusher. When he was in iraq he lead the 1st. AID. He has been awarded the purple heart w/oak leaf cluster (that means he has been wounded multiple times in different engagements. He has been awarded the bronze star with three oak leafs meaning multiple awards. If you would like to read up about this "pencil pusher" you can go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hertling#Major_Decorations_and_Badges With what you're attempting to argue, this doesn't help you. Despite the fact that he deployed for Operation Iraqi Freedom, he's not there RIGHT NOW. He's part of/associated with TRADOC, RIGHT NOW. The reason I point this out is because you asked me for the quality of recruits I was getting, not the ones that the general was getting. He gets them and trains them and says they are a bunch of vidio game playing pussies which he sends to you

thompsonx -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/24/2010 8:58:27 PM)
quote: You need to do what you preach. Our exchange here indicates that you're not willing to consider any point besides your own. Perhaps you should learn how to read. I have offered the assessment of someone who is in a position to know...her position is opinion...you do not seem to know the difference. This is the case with the majority of the posters that are arguing against me. When confronted with evidence proving you wrong, You provide no evidence you only offer rhetoric you resort to straw-man arguments just so that you could think that the other side of the argument is "wrong" and that your side of the argument is "right." Seems to me that you have issues with more than one person arguing with you. I only have issues with those who peddle bullshit as reality...you know kinda like you Since she's providing something of substance, No she is providing opinion just like you she has every right to post on my thread, I have not questioned her right to post. just as I have every right to keep coming back to destroy the opposition's argument. So far you have not "destroyed" anyone's arguement. All you have done is prove your ignorance. Why does she have to put you on block? She may do as she pleases Why don't you put her on block so that you don't see her posts? Cuz she is hawt and I enjoy perving her avitar...yours is just a rat with wings.

Zevar -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/24/2010 10:53:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: herfacechair quote: ORIGINAL: Zevar Greetings HFC: In reading this thread that you began I was reminded of the following: "Many soldiers are led to faulty ideas of war by knowing too much about too little." *General George Smith Patton, Jr., U.S. Army* Negative numbnuts, that wasn't meant for someone that has combat deployed, who subsequently relayed his experiences in a discussion and debate. What I'm doing here is not that much different in concept than what Patton or others like him did when they came back. Just look at the erroneous assumptions, about what's going on in Iraq, that you guys are trying to peddle. Patton's statement is applicable to the people arguing against me here about the Iraq War. It's also applicable to people who come in with the Rambo mentality. Greetings HFC: Consider this Marine saying: I was that which others did not want to be, I went where others feared to go and did what others failed to do, I asked nothing from those that gave nothing and reluctantly accepted the thought of eternal loneliness should I fail, I have cried, pained and hoped; but most of all I have lived times others would say are best forgotten. At least one day I can be proud of what I was and will ALWAYS be..."A United States Marine!"

LadyPact -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/25/2010 6:57:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: herfacechair Yes, you're misunderstanding me, I never said that I'll be in Iraq for two years, what I actually said: "I'm back, this time for 2 years instead of 2 weeks!" --herfacechair I'm still a bit confused on that. How did you manage to get two weeks home just prior to your return? Not that it's of any consequence, really. It's just My understanding that there is a window there. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact What I said earlier in this thread: "The majority of the posters on this message board are either immediately to the left of center left to the far left. Those that are in the center, and to the right are in the minority on this message board." -- herfacechair To be very clear, My purpose in asking that is, as a member of a military family, I've actually found that people were very supportive of Me and Mine. Granted, I don't dip My toe into this section often, but people on the site in general have always offered their best wishes. quote: After you read these two, go back to the last sentence of the first quote, that's how I see things when someone implies, or suggests, that I'm doing this because I'm ordered to do it. This will tell you why I didn't take the "following orders" approach. The number of times I wanted to do it? ZERO. This is just a personal thing of Mine that makes Me chuckle. Even though it is a Politics and Religion section, it's still a BDSM forum. I tend to find it funny that, as such, there tends to be a lack of connection about obedience. (You'd probably have to know Me better as a Dominant on that one.)

domiguy -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/25/2010 7:16:20 AM)
Have you ever dry aged steaks? Very interesting. There is a steakhouse in Chicago called David Burke's Primehouse. http://www.davidburke.com/restaurant_primehouse.html His steaks all come from the Creekstone Farms in Kentucky, apparently the only good thing to come out of that God forsaken state, and are dry-aged for 28 to 75 days on-premise in a Himalayan salt-tiled aging room. I imagine that very few people have a Himalayan salt-tiled aging room. I have read that it's mandatory to purchase a whole ribeye or loin strip as you cannot apparently dry age individual steaks. Then you wrap the meat up in in dish towels, which must be changed daily, and you can store the meat in the bottom of a refrigerator for an extended period of time. facechair, do you have any better ideas when it comes to dry aging a steak and how long you can you actually dry age meat in this manner before it actually spoils? I take very good care of my meat, any and all answers would be appreciated. Thanks pal.

herfacechair -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (6/28/2010 5:07:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx That is the difference between amatures like yourself and the professionals. The ucmj is the "book" and punks who think barracks justice is how the military works do not understand the word discipline. Discipline is the difference between a mob and professional warriors. You obviously are part of the former which may be the reason for your singular lack of success in your current endeavor in the sandbox. No, the UCMJ isn't the "book," it's a law. The Manual for Courts-Martial is "the book." Certainly, a "professional" and a "veteran" like you would've known that difference." Your reply represents a textbook answer to what constitutes a military, and military discipline. Nowhere did I say that barracks justice is what's used to instill discipline. I wasn't talking about the occasional drunken brawl that privates/airmen/seamen get into after returning to the barracks. I was talking about a serious form of corrective training used to set people straight... like a senior NCO knocking a LT on his ass for making a stupid decision that got people killed, or almost got them killed, a decision that common sense dictated he shouldn't have made. Or someone like you getting knocked on his azz for being too stupid for his own good. It's another way to reach incorrigible people. Things like that happen, and whether this ends up through the legal channels or not is up to the chain of command. But there are other ways to instill discipline, they work from informal verbal, serious verbal, written, corrective training, and so on. Depending on the situation, taking the UCMJ route is an option when all other methods failed. In many of these cases, going straight to taking UCMJ action reflects a failure in leadership. It's our overwhelming success in Iraq that's a major contributing factor to my being back in the States, deployment completed, now instead of August 31 as scheduled.

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