RE: The idea of turning Detroit into farmland...

RE: The idea of turning Detroit into farmland... (Full Version)

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thishereboi -> RE: The idea of turning Detroit into farmland... (5/8/2010 11:17:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: auditguy quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi Oh aren't you clever[8D] Why don't you hop over here and tell them they are wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate Cause real man don't hop (they might skip, but they don't hop). The Forbes ranking is only made up of four of those offenses: murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault. The Wikipedia list includes less violent crimes, which skews the ranking. Well I was talking crime rate, so I guess you didn't prove much of anything with your forbes link. Did you set yourself up for that one too? Now maybe you can explain this crack..... quote: ORIGINAL: auditguy The federal taxpayer? I mean I would be more than happy to get wallet raped some more for the great citizens of Detroit and their bastard children.

TheHeretic -> RE: The idea of turning Detroit into farmland... (5/8/2010 11:17:04 AM)
I think you misunderstand me, Jen. I think opening up the land for farming is a great idea. If people want to form independent communes, all the better. I'm not suggesting anyone try to build what I described as a next step. Turn it into five acre parcels (whatever), turn off the zoning restrictions, and see what grows. Let interested parties rent a much smaller bulldozer themselves. This is something that has to evolve organically. But if you want a tax base that lets you fix the potholes, plow the snow and keep all that cool big city stuff, It's going to need to gentrify in a hurry. Oh. Those really big-ass factory sites? Let 'em stand. They might be cool, someday. The money... There is no big check here, Jen. Given the insanely cheap prices on property, and your passion for your community, I'm sure you own at least a plot or two. This is going to be on you for a while. I say, turn you, and others like you, loose on the land, by turning off damn near all the zoning restrictions and passing out land grants to qualifying individuals. I'd say if you own the only house on the block, you can apply to be handed the block free and clear if you promise to do something productive or artistic with it. "If we build it, they will come," obviously hasn't worked in Detroit. Maybe it's time to try freedom on free land. The locals and returnees first, but the guy who wants a 12 car garage needs to be hot on their heels.

thishereboi -> RE: The idea of turning Detroit into farmland... (5/8/2010 11:30:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic I think you misunderstand me, Jen. I think opening up the land for farming is a great idea. If people want to form independent communes, all the better. I'm not suggesting anyone try to build what I described as a next step. Turn it into five acre parcels (whatever), turn off the zoning restrictions, and see what grows. Let interested parties rent a much smaller bulldozer themselves. This is something that has to evolve organically. But if you want a tax base that lets you fix the potholes, plow the snow and keep all that cool big city stuff, It's going to need to gentrify in a hurry. Oh. Those really big-ass factory sites? Let 'em stand. They might be cool, someday. The money... There is no big check here, Jen. Given the insanely cheap prices on property, and your passion for your community, I'm sure you own at least a plot or two. This is going to be on you for a while. I say, turn you, and others like you, loose on the land, by turning off damn near all the zoning restrictions and passing out land grants to qualifying individuals. I'd say if you own the only house on the block, you can apply to be handed the block free and clear if you promise to do something productive or artistic with it. "If we build it, they will come," obviously hasn't worked in Detroit. Maybe it's time to try freedom on free land. The locals and returnees first, but the guy who wants a 12 car garage needs to be hot on their heels. What are you going to do with the people already living on those 5 acre parcels? How many families will a 5 acre farm support? How much money do you think it will cost to bulldoze an entire subdivision and get the land ready for planting? We are not talking about areas that already have a lot of open land. We are talking about neighborhoods that have a lot of abandoned houses in them. Who is going to buy these people out and then finance building their farm? The ones that are living on the land now, couldn't do it. They can barely afford to live, if they could afford to leave, do you honestly think they would stay? Oh and how often have you visited our fair city? Just curious.

auditguy -> RE: The idea of turning Detroit into farmland... (5/8/2010 11:47:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi Well I was talking crime rate, so I guess you didn't prove much of anything with your forbes link. Did you set yourself up for that one too? Now maybe you can explain this crack..... quote: ORIGINAL: auditguy The federal taxpayer? I mean I would be more than happy to get wallet raped some more for the great citizens of Detroit and their bastard children. I prove that in the categories of crime that are most difficult to paper over by the police force to improve statistics and justify salaries, Detroit leads the way. You know, since a rape is a rape is a rape, unless you are in Brooklyn in which case it is aggravated assault if you are in a low income area. For more clarification on why I need to do that here is a recent report, that brings to light that the Detroit Police Department routinely under-reports homicides through omissions and incorrect classification of crimes. The department admitted that it excluded justifiable homicides classified as self-defense in its initial 2008 report: http://detnews.com/article/20090618/METRO/906180406/Detroit-police-routinely-underreport-homicides However, we are arguing semantics here, and even the selected Wikipedia statistics show Detroit in the top ten of most crime categories. As for my other comment that was intended to address the issue of federal money going to fund a failed city, which instead of trying to do something different and try to downsize and improve itself, stays the course when it comes to its failed policies (but this comment can be addressed to many large cities in the US). Also it was meant to draw attention to Detroit’s large single parent problem, which leads to higher crime and in turn more poverty, which requires more government support and taxpayer money. When it comes to the wallet rape it was meant to address my anger at the insane amount of money I had to pay in federal (and state) taxes this year. Glad I could clear up all those issues for you. On the bright side Detroit still has a lower crime rate then many third world countries, people from where I originally come from would kill to have Detroit’s crime rate.

popeye1250 -> RE: The idea of turning Detroit into farmland... (5/8/2010 1:41:06 PM)
How's about we get out of "NAFTA" instead? And all those other outsourcing agreements disguised as "free-trade" deals?

TheHeretic -> RE: The idea of turning Detroit into farmland... (5/8/2010 1:46:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi What are you going to do with the people already living on those 5 acre parcels? How many families will a 5 acre farm support? How much money do you think it will cost to bulldoze an entire subdivision and get the land ready for planting? We are not talking about areas that already have a lot of open land. We are talking about neighborhoods that have a lot of abandoned houses in them. Who is going to buy these people out and then finance building their farm? The ones that are living on the land now, couldn't do it. They can barely afford to live, if they could afford to leave, do you honestly think they would stay? Oh and how often have you visited our fair city? Just curious. Have you somehow mistaken me for a liberal, Boi??? I don't care where the people go, and getting projects funded is not the job of government. Around here, when ghetto gets bulldozed, they find another place to live. It sucks to be living in the blight when people get serious about eradicating it. Liberal guilt does not work on me, don't even try. The land is taken by eminent domain. If somebody would rather turn the existing structures into chicken coops than raze them, that's fine. The idea is NOT for a bunch of touchy-feely bureaucrats to sit around and decide how they will spend other people's money, and kiss the boo-boos of the people who want welfare checks until they get their old job back, but to create a place where people who do have personal motivation and or money of their own can create a whole new sort of environment. Not that it means jack-shit to the discussion, but I've laid-over in your airport long enough to get drunk, and been through twice when I was running long-haul. I've also known several refugees from the city/area who relocated to where the jobs were a long time ago. By all means, let the maps be drawn by people who know it well. Let those who are passionate about their unique city and culture be first in line to carry forward the character that is important to them, but don't tell me I can't comment on urban renewal because I'm not intimate with your particular urb.

thishereboi -> RE: The idea of turning Detroit into farmland... (5/8/2010 4:03:10 PM)
quote: Have you somehow mistaken me for a liberal, Boi??? Naw. I like you too much to do that[:)]

servantforuse -> RE: The idea of turning Detroit into farmland... (5/8/2010 5:39:05 PM)
Tell the residents of Detroit that Halloween is early this year. Then they can burn down the remaining houses to make a really big farm. The leftover ashes will be good for the soil.

seekingOwnertoo -> RE: The idea of turning Detroit into farmland... (5/8/2010 11:20:18 PM)
Ya know ... i saw this when you posted it. But i ignored it. i have been hoping for "thishereboi", "LadyHibiscus", "boijen" and others ... But here is the deal. Metro Detroit is an area with almost 5 Million people. Detroit proper ... 700,000 ... and declining rapidly. the area outside of Detroit proper ... specifically in Oakland and Macomb counties ... has places "to die" for ... Multi million dollar homes ... on Lakes .. something You don't have in Colorado. That said, Detroit City itself is a mess ... because of racially charged politics ... and declining industry. Meaning ... NO JOBS! There is an investor who is willing to put up 30 million ... based on the concept that "small, local, farms" ... likely meaning gardens to you ... to produce locally grown and sold produce. Again, the concept ASSUMES that multi national corperations control the US food chain ... and LOCALLY GROWN STUFF .. SOLD LOCALLY .. can help defeat the scenario ... build confidence in people ... and maybe eventually ... turn a profit for him too. Regardless .. he gets a huge tax deduction AND a lot of good will! But i am sure Lady Hibiscus could describe this better. The point being ... when You say farms ... I say gardens ... and it all depends on the trends ... I hope this helps clarifys something ... although ... I am not sure what.

seekingOwnertoo -> RE: The idea of turning Detroit into farmland... (5/9/2010 12:06:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brain Someone wrote a book recently about the cost of transportation going so high that no matter how cheap they can manufacture something in China it would not matter. They said it will not matter how cheap the cost of labor is in China because of very expensive transportation costs with increasing energy prices. He went on to explain manufacturing will bounce back in previous places like Detroit or Pittsburgh. I think he's right but I'm not sure exactly when it will happen. I heard the same thing in a board room south of Detroit ... two years ago ... The President of the Company (former Marine Fighter Pilot) the VP of Sales ... and the CFO ... Lot of good their insight did ... Germans took over the Company, two months later ... ousted them ... and later me ... LOL Like i am now .. somebody! <chuckes> ... But frankly ... the point is ... as soon as wall street runs up the price of fuel ... the whole concept of IMPORTING IS DEAD .... The Cost is TOO high

seekingOwnertoo -> RE: The idea of turning Detroit into farmland... (5/9/2010 12:23:19 AM)
Of course, now that i think of it, perhaps the words ... Improvise, Adapt and Overcome .... Now have new meaning. So maybe this is the real answer ... to whatever we are debating here. Because NOW is the time for true hero's ... to stand up ... for what it is we believe in ...

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