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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

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ORIGINAL: kdsub


It has worked...yes really worked as no other system or country has in the past. With all its faults and warts it is the best we have come up with in our few millions of years of existence.

Strive for something better sure but don't look down on a system that has giving you a life of freedom and the ability to complain about it.

I love the smell of blind patriotism in the morning.

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Well, to start we have a republic, not a democracy. That is intended to keep ignorant masses from doing whatever strikes their fancy, at least quickly.

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ORIGINAL: OrpheusAgonistes

I think it was Churchill who said something like, "Democracy is the worst form of government known to man, except for all the others."

My own impression of the American political culture is that it is daft, barbarous, willfully stupid and rotten to the core.  The road to reform would involve Americans being able to overcome their tribal instincts enough to see that the "us" and "them" isn't Democrats vs Republicans, it's kleptocrats (whichever party flag they fly) vs everybody else.  I'd bet a dollar things will just keep getting worse.

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That said, I don't see a better solution than to try to work within the structure of a democratic republic.  The key is to instill some kind of respect and veneration for rational thought and intelligent discussion in as many people as possible.  To some degree, this answer begs your question.  You say "Do Americans deserve a democracy?"  I answer "They do if they can start to take their obligations in a democracy more seriously."  Candidly, I think this is the only solution.  I think the American experiment is probably worth continuing, which means everybody who takes it seriously has an obligation to be reasonably informed and reasonably reasonable.

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One more nod to America's venerable ghosts--it was Franklin (old, somewhat doddering, drooling from the corners of his mouth but still a genius) who caustically remarked to nobody in particular "So you have a Republic....if you can keep it."

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The OP holds up Napoleon as an exemplar because he "stabilized" France. She ignores the disaster that befell the nation from his dictatorship, much as saying Mussolini made the trains run on time but oh, too bad he wrecked havoc upon Italy.

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ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Gold- silver and platinum up today.

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ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

FR
Pirates had a very effective democracy. When it was time to fight then everyone listened to the captain (for he had more battles and more experience.

Outside of battle the Captain and the crew were equals and treated as such. That and the fact it is cost effective to by rum in bulk.

Our Democratic process is really dictated by the electoral college. The popular vote means NOTHING. Yet we cast our vote regardless. If there is no point to it why do it? That is money that can be used for other things like the rehabilitation of American Addicts.

In return of our inability to choose our our own President we really live in a state of perpetual anarchy. That is my opinion, however. Others may see it as something else but that is the point.

Interpretation.

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Well, to start we have a republic, not a democracy. That is intended to keep ignorant masses from doing whatever strikes their fancy, at least quickly.

The 'ignorant masses' are going to do what they will anyway. No government can stop such a force simply because the agencies we pay to protect us does not have eyes and ears everywhere. 'Crime' slips through the cracks undetected. At times it is detected and we do nothing of the sort.

Apathetic we run our busy lives on empty and worn for the sake of consumerism and instant gratification.

If such a system worked perfectly I would not have to take Antidepressants or Antipsychotics. But it is not perfect and their is very little protection.

What irks me the most is the American Government is fallible and they claim otherwise. I'll admit it all day long, I am fallible and subject to error and death.

So is this Government.

And all fall at the same rate once we reach terminal velocity.

It would be nice to see what criticisms spring from this body of prose.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Have you been reading de Toucqeville.....he observed that the United States was destined to elect average leaders.

Democracy can only possibly work where people exercise their stake in the nation which includes being involved in public affairs as opposed to watching the news every now and again with the express purpose of having ill-conceived notions reinforced.

I'd agree with you - it's far from perfect.

But then you'd have to weigh it up against the options - better to have the choice however ill-informed - or better to have no choice and hope and pray the state will have your best interests at heart - and as we know the state will decide what's in your interests in and lie to you where they deem it is in your interests - then surely the former is the better option of the two?

Edited to add: and where you're arguing for the latter - then on what basis? social cohesion? and what would you lose? a whole lot of creativity I'd imagine.

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ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

NorthernGent

I think you will find the average ill-informed voter in the US, over time, gets it right more often than not. I trust the majority’s ability to see its mistakes and correct them...it may take a few years but we do.

Looking back from afar...which is the only true way to judge, the US voters have elected many leaders far above the world average. In fact I would say they were very able and responsible given the power they inherited.

I believe this system creates gifted leaders in its crucible of the American politics.

Butch

Not sure why it matters that we might vote in "average joe's" to office. Isn't that what we are about? It is only elitism that would tell us to run off to Harvard, Yale, etc etc...and find the "Talented" to lead us.

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If we simply voted in a President based on popular vote then most of the country would be left in peril to the whims of New Yorkers and Californians and Texans.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961
What would you replace it with?  A theocracy of the religious right?  Perhaps a true socialist government?

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You cant make people vote.  That is the problem, too many people complain about the government not doing what it is supposed to do and the complainers are not voting.  After all why should they?

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I vote because it is my duty as a citizen.  The problem with Americans is that too many dont see that.  They have the right to complain about something they are not willing to change.

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ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk


As you know the electoral college is nothing more than a way to even out the power of each constituent state. If we simply voted in a President based on popular vote then most of the country would be left in peril to the whims of New Yorkers and Californians and Texans. With the Electoral College people in outlying states such as Iowa or Montana can feel that they have input into the system. I can see of a fairer way of doing it that wouldn't disenfranchise people.

Our push for materialism and/or instant gratification is a function of what our Gov't has put forth to us over the past few decades aided by the wall street banks. I too would appreciate some humility by Gov't. Just as I would love to see some humility from the Board Room.....Don't think it is going to happen soon.

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ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
Not sure why it matters that we might vote in "average joe's" to office. Isn't that what we are about? It is only elitism that would tell us to run off to Harvard, Yale, etc etc...and find the "Talented" to lead us.

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ORIGINAL: Elisabella

If anything, my post was questioning people's right to vote, by wondering what the responsibility of a voter should be.

I would say the responsibility of a citizen is to make an informed vote, not just a vote. And you're right that too many don't see that.

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ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

And I don't believe we get the Brilliant ones for our surgeries do we? At least not in my income bracket. That stated there is nothing complicated about governance. Not complicated equations or tissues that need to be opened and kept away from one another or the person(country) will die. We all have the ability to understand them or else we wouldn't so eloquently put forward our ideas here on this space. Is Obama actually more talented than you or me?

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It would probably be better if schools taught civics and pushed the responsibility of the person to vote.