Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey?

Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (Full Version)

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Mercnbeth -> Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 10:53:46 AM)
Pragmatic implementation of policies which reflect economic reality. Wow - what a concept! As the United States watches a debt crisis in Greece like a fiscal oil spill, waiting to see where it will spread first and when it will make landfall on our shores, Governor Christie of NJ is tackling the nation's worst state deficit - $10.7 billion of a $29.3 billion budget. In doing so, Christie has become the politician so many Americans crave, one willing to lose his job. Indeed, Christie is doing something unheard of: governing as a Republican in a blue state, just as he campaigned, making good on promises, acting like his last election is behind him. Upon taking office Christie declared a state of emergency, signing an executive order that froze spending, and then, in eight weeks, cutting $13 billion in spending. In March he presented to the Legislature his first budget, which cuts 9 percent of spending, including more than $800 million in education funding; seeks to privatize numerous government functions; projects 1,300 layoffs; and caps tax increases. Teachers unions are incensed, fighting Christie's proposal that - in order to avoid cuts to education - teachers accept a one-year wage freeze and contribute 1.5 percent to the generous-by-every-standard healthcare plans they now enjoy for free. New Jersey, which has the highest unemployment in the region and highest taxes in the country, lost 121,000 jobs in the private sector in 2009 while adding 11,300 new education jobs. During the last eight years, K-12 enrollment rose just 3 percent while education jobs increased more than 16 percent. According to the Newark Star-Ledger, during the recession that has cost many residents their homes and jobs and scaled back hours and pay for the employed, teachers’ salaries rose by nearly 5 percent, double the rate of inflation. Christie is adamant about lowering taxes. After taxes were raised 115 times in the last eight years, he said the wealthy are tapped out. Property taxes rose nearly 70 percent in the last decade, and studies show top earners — the 1 percent of taxpayers paying 40 percent of income tax — are fleeing the Garden State. The question is, is this an anomaly or will it be a trend platform for the upcoming November elections locally and nationally? Anyone taking this stance fights an uphill battle against the public employee unions who are VERY well funded; and the entitlement recipients who's interests will be protected by the special interest corporate welfare recipients. Seeing the positions taken my many on CM political threads - where corporate welfare is accepted, encouraged, and excused for the ever present 'think of the children!', 'for the children's sake', and 'good intent' indoctrinated - I don't know if creating a pragmatically reasoning plurality is possible. Unfortunately I don't see anyone on the November ballot for either party in the upcoming California governor's race willing to take a similarly needed and pragmatically necessary approach to this State's economic reality. But from the left coast - NJ will be an interesting process and result to watch!

jlf1961 -> RE: Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 10:59:29 AM)
Too bad the federal government wont do the same.

rulemylife -> RE: Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 11:01:09 AM)
The wealthy are "tapped out"? Does that mean we have taxed them into poverty? You do understand the idea of a progressive income tax? The top 1% pay 40% of the tax because they earn more than the total of the bottom 90% combined.

thompsonx -> RE: Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 11:04:47 AM)
I find it interesting that you, who brags constantly, that you will take advantage of every entitlement you are entitled to seem to be castigating those who act like you On the other hand it is consistant with your college drop out anti-itellectual bias that you point out the costs of education as being a major factor in New Jersey's financial problems.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 11:11:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife The wealthy are "tapped out"? Does that mean we have taxed them into poverty? You do understand the idea of a progressive income tax? The top 1% pay 40% of the tax because they earn more than the total of the bottom 90% combined. Do you understand that the person quoted didn't post the article on CM and won't be answering you? From my vantage point, the "tapped out" reference applies to wealthy investors. The focus you have on an individuals wealth is a short sighted view of the economic world and indicates a lack of understanding about how investments are made. No wealthy person, for the sake of argument maybe there have been a few, has been taxed into poverty. MANY have been taxed out of investing. The result is fewer individuals having the opportunity to work and earn a living wage in the businesses and industries where the wealthy have been taxed into staying on the sidelines. You don't need to take my first hand representation of that factual reality. Each and every place where there has been a trend of high taxes, CA and NJ being obvious examples, tax revenue has gone down dramatically. The result is a direct consequence of the wealthy being taxed out of the incentive to invest. Feel free to bring up more irrelevant points regarding the tax code.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 11:16:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx I find it interesting that you, who brags constantly, that you will take advantage of every entitlement you are entitled to seem to be castigating those who act like you On the other hand it is consistant with your college drop out anti-itellectual bias that you point out the costs of education as being a major factor in New Jersey's financial problems. You find me "interesting"? GREAT! I find your focus on me in lieu of the subject of any post - boring and reflective of your general ignorance regardless of any sheepskin hanging on your wall. Once again - you have nothing of substance regarding anything but ME! - YEAH, but regardless of how fixated you are - I won't let you be my slave! Keep begging!

Aileen1968 -> RE: Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 11:29:40 AM)
As a resident of NJ for 36 of my 42 years all I can say is that I love the man. He is finally doing what needs to be done. There is so much corruption and waste in NJ state politics and government. I personally know of people hired to government jobs, making $125,000+ not because they're qualified, but purely because Uncle Sal got them the job. It is rampant in this state. These are the excesses that he is targeting. They work for a few years and then retire with lifelong full benefits. Our biggest downfall in this state is that the politicians have been in bed with the unions for far too long. Corzine, who had enough money to not have to be, continued right down that path. He had every opportunity to not, but he chose to follow in the steps of all who proceeded him. The teacher's union is not saintly by any means. School taxes in our state are probably three times what most pay in all of their taxes in total. That's just our school taxes. I just rambled. I love this state. I love living here, but the average person is having an incredibly hard time affording it. There's no way in hell most can even think of retiring here. Yay for Christie!

DomYngBlk -> RE: Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 11:33:33 AM)
I think I'd wait the applause until the effects take place and you see just what happens in the state. Saying this is a fait accompli is a bit premature

Aileen1968 -> RE: Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 11:34:26 AM)
It really can't be any worse than what we've gotten on a daily basis for years...

DomYngBlk -> RE: Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 11:35:20 AM)
Maybe, maybe not. Can't know that from here. Now can you.

Aileen1968 -> RE: Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 11:36:55 AM)
All I know is the past 36 years of living here.

DomYngBlk -> RE: Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 11:40:01 AM)
Adding signficantly more folks to the unemployment rolls isn't going to help the state budget. Article seems typical of "right-minded" folks that worry that Rich folks are going to have to cut down on the staff at their mansions and that if only we could get rid of the Unions the world would be right again. Which is hilarious since white collar workers wouldn't even have health benefits today without Unions.

popeye1250 -> RE: Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 12:20:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx I find it interesting that you, who brags constantly, that you will take advantage of every entitlement you are entitled to seem to be castigating those who act like you On the other hand it is consistant with your college drop out anti-itellectual bias that you point out the costs of education as being a major factor in New Jersey's financial problems. You find me "interesting"? GREAT! I find your focus on me in lieu of the subject of any post - boring and reflective of your general ignorance regardless of any sheepskin hanging on your wall. Once again - you have nothing of substance regarding anything but ME! - YEAH, but regardless of how fixated you are - I won't let you be my slave! Keep begging! Merc, Thompson does that to everyone. Instead of debating the subject matter he tries to get personal. (ad hominem) I just ignore him when he does that or give him a snarky comment.[:D] And as for "K-12" they can get rid of the "K" part, people just use the "K" part as free daycare anyway. They call it the FIRST grade for a reason.

Fellow -> RE: Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 12:24:44 PM)
quote: Mercnbeth: No wealthy person, for the sake of argument maybe there have been a few, has been taxed into poverty. MANY have been taxed out of investing. The result is fewer individuals having the opportunity to work and earn a living wage in the businesses and industries where the wealthy have been taxed into staying on the sidelines. Here is a nice set of graphs showing how wealth is spread in the US: http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#the-gap-between-the-top-1-and-everyone-else-hasnt-been-this-bad-since-the-roaring-twenties-1 These are 2007 numbers. Since the picture has become even more contrast. Clearly there is a problem. Regardless of taxes a lot of wealth moves out of capital circulation and suppresses economy as a whole. The interests of super wealthy do not coincide with the normally functioning economy. At the same time sizable parasitic class emerges. Serving wealthy creates some odd phenomena like gossip industry, explosion in the number of high fashion designers (about 1000 times in last 20 years) and others.

thompsonx -> RE: Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 12:26:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx I find it interesting that you, who brags constantly, that you will take advantage of every entitlement you are entitled to seem to be castigating those who act like you On the other hand it is consistant with your college drop out anti-itellectual bias that you point out the costs of education as being a major factor in New Jersey's financial problems. You find me "interesting"? GREAT! Once again your anti-intellectual bias and lack of ecucation is obvious...My statement does not say that I find you interesting. Perhaps if you had stayed in school a bit longer you would have learned how to comprehend what you read. I find your focus on me in lieu of the subject of any post - boring and reflective of your general ignorance regardless of any sheepskin hanging on your wall. Please learn how to read. The focus is on the assinine conclusions you draw from the article. Once again - you have nothing of substance regarding anything but ME! - YEAH, but regardless of how fixated you are - I won't let you be my slave! Keep begging! My only fixation with you is your blatant hypocrisy. If you keep posting it I will keep pointing it out to you. Why are you against others getting entitlements while you brag constantly how you avail yourself of all you can get?

thompsonx -> RE: Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 12:33:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen1968 The teacher's union is not saintly by any means. School taxes in our state are probably three times what most pay in all of their taxes in total. That's just our school taxes. Yay for Christie! I am curious as to how much school teachers in n.j. make to start and say at ten years? Typically a masters with a credential. What would be the school taxes on a home assessed at say $300k?

thompsonx -> RE: Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 12:50:01 PM)
quote: Merc, Thompson does that to everyone. Not so. Only to liars,bullshitters,bigots and two faced unethical parasites. Instead of debating the subject matter he tries to get personal. (ad hominem) My post questioned the validity of his conclusions drawn from the article posted. I just ignore him when he does that or give him a snarky comment. As opposed to actually discussing the question posed. And as for "K-12" they can get rid of the "K" part, people just use the "K" part as free daycare anyway. You might want to give this a look popeye...and while you are at it you might also make sure you know where your snow shovel is[;)] http://thedartmouth.com/2010/03/08/news/kindergarten They call it the FIRST grade for a reason.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 1:02:33 PM)
Thompsonx - As expected - me again, no substance no reply, no rebuttal. You've kept notes and reference them daily as indicated in your replies specific to those reference. Obviously I have been, and will continue to be open, and disclosing. So...you want to make this a personal topic - lets keep it personal - Let make this about you 'x' and see if you are man enough to do the same as I've done and disclose about yourself as much as you have kept in reference about me. Other than post on CM what do you do with yourself during the day to make a living? What regular medication to you use, and can't to without, to function? Is it legal in every State and every country you've ever used it? How much tax did you pay as a percentage of your gross income? (I doubt you paid any.) How much is your income coming off the government tit? Do you justify it by some 'service' provided in the distant past? How much do you earn, and what entitlements do you receive which will be curtailed and/or eliminated if the government wasn't being run as a charity? Exactly how long did you attend school? I want to know this because to be as ignorant as you are I want to make sure none of my children ever do the same. I'd expect you at minimum attended graduate school. The practice of entitlements and government charity has a cost - you obviously don't know how it works and can't appreciate it - seeking only to insure whatever you get, you keep, and get increased. You seek more return for less effort. Distinguishing you from productive, and socially contributing people, such as me. I see your envy and jealousy and your laziness. Attempting to attack and insult me serves to prove the point. But what about you 'x'? Beyond having the reasoning skills and ability to use the quote function, and your biggest need for attention personified not only by what you post, but your attention seeking use of 'BOLD', how do you justify the taking up the valuable air you breath? Over the years - ALL that information about me, and beth for that matter, has been disclosed. Other than you being a functioning idiot, little is similarly known about you. And, although much has been assumed, why not get on equal footing? I doubt you are up to this challenge. I doubt you can get 'up' for anything, with your life best represented as one deep dark hole. But since you like taking on every post I make as an opportunity to try to take me on personally, and since the 'new wave' of Collar Me 'moderation' allows for it - lets see what you got!

Aileen1968 -> RE: Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 1:03:41 PM)
Ya know....I haven't looked up numbers. I do know that for 2009, for our house, we paid about $14,500. We were assessed at $425,000. Over $10,000 of it was school tax.

thompsonx -> RE: Hope and 'CHANGE!' From New Jersey? (5/13/2010 2:09:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen1968 Ya know....I haven't looked up numbers. I do know that for 2009, for our house, we paid about $14,500. We were assessed at $425,000. Over $10,000 of it was school tax. We have a cap on property tax 1% of the purchase price and 2% increase per year of the tax. They can only add to the value of your house if you make improvements like adding a room or such. The state takes about 50% of the property tax and use it for schools. A friend of mine just bought a tudor two story 3,000 sqft on the beach front in newport for $500 k. So her property tax this year will be $5,000 and next year they will be $5,100. School teachers here get about $65K with two masters a credential and ten years on the job. You wont get much more than $75k unless you become an administrator. I on the other hand live on ten acres at the beach that has no water (desert) two zillion miles from nowhere. My property taxes are now, after 25 years, are about $50.00 per year.

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