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RE: Dad charged with branding kids... - 5/14/2010 10:13:12 AM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
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quote:

ORIGINAL: reynardfox

The victims in question were not of an age to consent legally and therefore the guy should be behind bars. It looks to me like he did it as a F**ck you to his ex wife.
A shame some people see offspring as possessions and not people.
This guy makes me sick.


Dito.

Whilst it wouldn't have to be bars for me, he should receive consequences for it and in my opinion it is quite plain disgusting.

Also I would not compare it with piercing and not to most of the tattoos either as at least with piercings you can vary the use of it however you want and with tattoos (unless it is done with letters) you can also search and decide what you want to have tattooed.

However, branding someones initials, or as it says here "s's kids" on underaged kids is something which seems to me he needed "reassurance" which he can "see" that his kids are his kids, a la they can't be taken away from him as well, as everyone can see they are his...feeding his own insecurity.

what an a*******.



_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to reynardfox)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Dad charged with branding kids... - 5/14/2010 10:34:33 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

To me the entire thing is disgusting. Equivocating about it is disgusting. Imagine in your mind the physical act of doing this to your kid...

^This^

(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Dad charged with branding kids... - 5/14/2010 12:48:08 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance


quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

To me the entire thing is disgusting. Equivocating about it is disgusting. Imagine in your mind the physical act of doing this to your kid...

^This^


I find it disgusting to set myself up as judge, jury and executioner in an instance where I only have the barest of facts. But maybe that's just me. Obviously it doesn't trouble most others.........luci

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To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
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RE: Dad charged with branding kids... - 5/14/2010 1:18:10 PM   
subtee


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FFS did you see the pictures? What could possibly make that okay?

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Don't believe everything you think...

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Dad charged with branding kids... - 5/14/2010 1:28:18 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


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I don't find it at all disgusting to be judgemental over something like that. Hell, I WISH I had been on the jury! Damn right it doesn't trouble me to stand up and say burning a minor and scarring them for life is abuse. This isn't about whether an adult slave can consent to a branding. It is about whether it is illegal to take a burning hot piece of metal and hold it to your kids chest, burn their flesh and scar them - so you and your kid can bond. What the hell is RIGHT about that?


(in reply to subtee)
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RE: Dad charged with branding kids... - 5/14/2010 2:42:50 PM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika



Indeed. I have a few other friends who did things perhaps less permanent physical scars to please their parents (converting to a certain religion, adhering to certain ideologies or mindsets) but emotional scars run deep as well.

So much time is spent on trying to help kids overcome peer pressure but what about parent pressure, which is even stronger.

As for your friend's tattoo, I am halfway through the process of having one removed and it is not only expensive but also incredibly painful, even with numbing cream. Also, the results are not guaranteed. I didn't get mine out of parental pressure but rather peer pressure in my late teens. I'm just glad it was nothing too outrageous, but like your friend, I do not let anyone see it unless I am intimate with them. It isn't so much the tattoo itself but the circumstances around getting it that really wish not to expose.

- LA



I think that is at the heart of things here...the parental pressure the father put on his children. Yes, we don't have all the facts but at the simplest level it seems as though the father (an adult of legal age and supposedly more maturity and wisdom) proposed to brand his children, and they (2 of them were minors and not of mature wisdom yet) supposedly agreed to it, so everyone went through with the plan.

Kids do things out of pressure of some sort all the time, they don't have the mental faculties or wisdom to choose appropriately for themselves yet. That is why the concept of the age of consent exists...to protect them until they can deliberate on their own for a particular course of action. The father failed here no matter how you look at it.

- He failed to protect his children and consequently put them through an unnecessary process which was physically damaging and caused them excruciating pain.
- He failed to model thoughtful behavior and did not consider the future implications of his actions for himself or them.
- He failed to set a mature example.

Yes, other parents have failed at these things as some posters here have pointed out. Other parents have allowed tattoos, piercings, or seemingly frivolous plastic surgery. The fact that others have done it does not mean it's ok. Any of it. Using an argument like this where it should be ok because it's been done before in some manner is the equivalent of a kid saying " but MOM, all my friends are doing it therefore I should be allowed to do it too!" And the time honored parental response is "If all your friends jumped off a cliff would you do that too?" Because we're trying to show that just because others do a particular thing it doesn't make it ok or desirable.

This guy is mentally and physically abusing children who are in his care. It's not ok. Its not even ok if other parents do it too. I've got lots of personal experience behind this next statement from past jobs and my own personal life - 13 and 15 year old boys don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. Science says that boys mature at a rate that is 2 years behind that of girls. They're clueless. If a man they look up to asks them to do something they're going to do it, and that man has an unfair advantage over them if he is not responsible and looking out for their best interests instead of his own puny little ego.

I also think as others have said that part of father's motivation in this case may have been revenge on the ex wife.

About my friend's tattoo...as I said, I'm not sure why he doesn't remove it or if he's looked into the removal process. His father died last August, maybe that will trigger him to get rid of the damn thing...I don't know. I also recently found out about a product for tattoo removal called Wrecking Balm and it can be purchased at Walmart amongst other places...I have to tell him about this the next time we talk. I'll pass on your words LA about the removal process...thanks

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Dad charged with branding kids... - 5/14/2010 4:10:14 PM   
LafayetteLady


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From: Northern New Jersey
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In the state of New Jersey, and I'm sure a majority of other states as well, a parent cannot consent to a 13 year old getting a tattoo. So it doesn't matter if the child wants it and the parent wants the kid to have it, the law doesn't allow them to have it. A minor must be at least 16 years of age to obtain a tattoo with their parents' consent in this state.

That said, there is, as several others have noted, a huge difference between allowing your child to have some type of body art/modification done by a PROFESSIONAL and dad just heatin up the ole fire poker and doing it himself. The first issue is the safety and well being of the children, which IS put as risk when dad does this by himself.

Tattoos and pierced ears have become "accepted" forms of body decoration. Branding is not there yet. My son received a tattoo for his 16th birthday. He had the consent of both his parents, and both of us were there with him. I controlled how large it was, where he was permitted to have it and what it was permitted to include. Some of that was a non issue because my son had wanted the same tattoo for more than 3 years; a cross with a ribbon and "Nana" written in it in memory of my mother. If he wanted his girlfriend's name, the answer would have been different.

So why do I mention that? Because it is easy to try to make the comparison with parents who allow a tattoo or piercing with a father who brands his children on his own. Easily done that is by people who don't have children, feel they can make bold psychological statements (that they lack the education or experience to make) or because of course, in the world of BDSM, it is just so "disgusting" to make a judgement.

So luci, no I don't feel it is disgusting to make a judgement based on "little" fact. If all I knew was that someone shot someone on the street, I can judge them a murderer, no problem, but I don't have the facts. A man who feels the need to physically scar his children as a means of bonding with them does NOT have the right to continue to parent those children or to be permitted to spend unsupervised time with them.

Angel, the only point you are right on in this one is that it would not be in the state's best financial interest to retry this case. It IS however, in the children's best interest to for children's services to step in and do a thorough investigation to determine the psychological well being of the children and the mental competency of the father.

The concept that these children were "brainwashed" by the father to think this was a good idea is a bit far reaching and has no basis in fact. Branding these children, is by definition, abuse. It is far more likely that the children, AFTER THE FACT, and more importantly after the indictment, started to say that they consented out of fear their father would go to prison over the issue, similar to how an abused child attempts to protect their abuser.

There are things that can be assumed even with the little information given. This was a much less than amicable divorce, and this father, for whatever reason, was feeling that he was "losing" his children and his role in their lives. It in no way justifies what he did, but I'm sure that all of that was part of his defense and helped lead to the hung jury. Why? Because the climate right now for "non custodial" fathers is how they are all getting a "raw deal," and every deadbeat dad is being presented as a paragon of fatherhood and that jury probably had it's fair share of divorced dads. That is simply logic.

At the end though, those kids are scarred for life. There will likely be a civil suit involved to provide the funds to have plastic surgery to remove the scars, and now "dad's" fears about losing his kids will come true, which is a good thing. He can earn his way back to being a father and role model for his kids.

(in reply to lizi)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Dad charged with branding kids... - 5/14/2010 4:56:45 PM   
LadyAngelika


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Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

LA -- you are going to have to clarify the "again" because 1) i haven't discussed any of this with you even in this thread, and 2) this is the first time you directly posted to me in this thread, 3, beyond your first post which to me was dramatic in its brainwashing concept, i can see no "again." 


No, you missed my response to you.

- LA


_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Dad charged with branding kids... - 5/15/2010 8:09:07 AM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Easily done that is by people who don't have children, feel they can make bold psychological statements (that they lack the education or experience to make) or because of course, in the world of BDSM, it is just so "disgusting" to make a judgement.s.


I do not link judgments here on the fact if people have children or not....IMO a lot of it has to do with common sense.

I don't have children at present and I still disagree to what happened.

Though I have the education you mentioned as I worked in a children's home for 4 years where I did a 4 year qualification about working with children (you can't work unqualified in a children's home in Germany, as you can in some other countries, you have to do an in depth qualification which includes human growth and development, sociologie, psychologie, etc) and we certainly had many debates at our work places about boys wanting tattoos and other stuff.

However, still, I would not brand it on people having kids or not as there certainly are many people out there who don't have kids and still wouldn't agree to that.

To me those brandings look like him branding his slaves....just with the sour taste in my mouth...that they are his kids actually...

If I would be his ex at least I would know for sure now that it was the best choice ever to get divorced from someone who feels the need to do that.

Apart from that whilst they can say it was their choice, it can still mean that the one or other of them did not do it that voluntarily straight away...it can include that the one or other kid was pushed into it and then told afterwards to say it was their choice "to protect daddy."





< Message edited by Phoenixpower -- 5/15/2010 8:10:19 AM >


_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 49
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