RE: sub boy as "friend," not boyfriend

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RE: sub boy as "friend," not boyfriend - 5/15/2010 6:28:23 PM

wandersalone

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One of my really good friends is a sub. Initially he would make comments every now and again about how he thought I would be really good at being a Domme or would somehow act submissive to me and it creeped me out. I had to tell him that if he wanted me as some sort of pseudo-Domme he had the wrong person. We sorted things out and now are simply friends which sits much more comfortably with me. If I thought that he had feelings for me which I would never return I would personally think it kinder to distance myself from him so that he wasn't holding out hope for something that would never happen.

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RE: sub boy as "friend," not boyfriend - 5/15/2010 6:33:50 PM

porcelaine

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subartist,

The more I look at your original comment the clearer it becomes that it isn't a question of friendship. Your title is pretty misleading. This is about someone wanting to befriend another submissive person and in doing so have an outlet for his submissiveness in some capacity. I'm not suggesting that you desire this, but the examples mentioned give credence to that idea. And in my opinion you're in a very weird place.

I have male dominants that I converse with and a couple I'm definitely friendly with. But they are neither my owner or men I'm involved with romantically. I have access to their ear if desired, but there's a line. Behaviors that are clearly attributed to my station would never be foist on them. Of course there are acts of service as mentioned in my original post, some that could be given in an honest fashion if he needed assistance and I was able to help.

But we're back to that murky area if I routinely offer him something he's never asked for. Especially activities that he (note this) has associated with a specific role. It gives the impression that I'm trying to get my fix by proxy. And I don't know about you, but whenever people attempt to sidestep the way something should be done and do it under your nose, it doesn't always feel too kosher.

Take from it what you will. But I think if you looked at this outside the context of an exchange and simply imagined another girl/guy doing such - regardless if the recipient was paired - it may paint a different picture.

~porcelaine

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RE: sub boy as "friend," not boyfriend - 5/15/2010 6:37:48 PM

peppermint

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From: Montana
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If I had a guy friend who was sexually attracted to me and didn't keep that a big dark secret, he would no longer be my friend. It would make me terribly uncomfortable to be around him. If I knew it was a turn on for him to be around me or help me with chores, he'd be history.

He would have made me an object, as in any woman will do for his kink and I'm not special enough to really be a friend.

< Message edited by peppermint -- 5/15/2010 6:40:14 PM >

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RE: sub boy as "friend," not boyfriend - 5/15/2010 8:56:07 PM

neloangelo1227

Posts: 22
Joined: 5/24/2007
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This is completely dependent on each individual person.

As a general rule, I know of no reasonable submissive who would rule out a friendship with a guy just because he's submissive.

I think porcelaine, however, has nailed it on the head.

What do we get from friends? Some camaraderie, some inside jokes, maybe someone to help us move, or someone that we share an activity with. If this is what both people are trying to get from each other, everything is in balance.

However, just like the guy who pines sexually for a girl once he's been "Friend Zone'd," there will be tension in a relationship where a submissive guy is trying to get his submissive friend-who-happens-to-be-female to give him his kinky jollies. This works in reverse, too, by the way: anyone can try to manipulate their friends into filling niches without their consent or even awareness; it's not restricted to just submissive-guys-who-are-friends-with-submissive-girls.

In my personal experience, the two-headed perfect panacea to this pernicious problem comes in the form of HONESTY and COMMUNICATION. When two sexually compatible submissives become friends (a straight guy and a straight girl, for example), they need to COMMUNICATE their needs to each other. In this thread, we seem to be discussing a straight-or-bi submissive guy who has no dominant partner, and needs dominant attention, who is friends with a straight-or-bi submissive girl who is uninterested in dominating him, whether because she is not dominant or because she is forbidden by her dom.

The COMMUNICATION part of this looks like this:

Guy: I'm looking for dominant attention.
Girl: Ah, I see. I can't give it to you, because I'm not interested.

At this point, the HONESTY needs to happen. Here's an example of what happens when the guy is being HONEST:

Guy: Ah man, I'm really disappointed by that. I understand, though. Want to hang out and play video games?

Conversely, this is what it looks like when he's being dishonest:

Guy: That's okay, I totally get it! I don't mind at all. Hey, do you want a foot rub? Nothing kinky, I just like giving foot rubs in a completely vanilla, non-sexual, non-submissive, non-service context even though every profile I have on every site specifically mentions my prodigious foot fetish. (Beavis & Butthead laugh)

Not only is the second example dishonest, it's disrespectful. Because the girl has made it absolutely clear that she is not interested in pursuing a dynamic with him, and now he is trying to manipulate her into pursuing it anyway.

This isn't always the case. In fact, two girls who regularly top me are submissives to every other person that they're kinky with. One of them is literally a live-in slave to her dom. I have gone to visit her, though, and when I visit, she is submissive to her dominant, I am submissive to her, and I do not share a dynamic with her dominant. This is a separate rant so I won't go into it, but I still feel it bears reiterating: I am not submissive to her dominant. We are just friends. Our dynamics are completely separate. I'm not friends with everyone who my friends are friends with, so why would I be kinky with everyone my partners are kinky with?

Kink dynamics are different from person-to-person, and between pairs. If a submissive girl deigns to cut ties with a submissive guy, it should be because he is incapable of detaching his need for dominant attention from his need for platonic friendship.

< Message edited by neloangelo1227 -- 5/15/2010 9:00:25 PM >

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RE: sub boy as "friend," not boyfriend - 5/16/2010 9:49:36 AM

subartist

Posts: 43
Joined: 8/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

subartist,

The more I look at your original comment the clearer it becomes that it isn't a question of friendship. Your title is pretty misleading. This is about someone wanting to befriend another submissive person and in doing so have an outlet for his submissiveness in some capacity. I'm not suggesting that you desire this, but the examples mentioned give credence to that idea. And in my opinion you're in a very weird place.

I'm not sure I understand. I had just met a woman in the past who had described what I thought was a curious dynamic, and would be interesting, and thought it might make a nice forum post. But I didn't want to make anyone upset, or to offend anyone, and I apologize if my post was weird to folks. I thought her dynamic was quite interesting. She was describing a friend who she had known in college, who was very submissive and shy, and very obviously had a crush on her. And she I guess enjoyed the attention, and the friendship, though she was not sexually interested in him, and made that plain, and made it plain that she was only attracted to dominant men. And so later she was trying to recreate this kind of dynamic, by seeking out another sub "friend." I think that when trying to recreate it, she surely must have realized there was a Domme aspect to what she was doing, but I don't think there was any problem with any of it, and her Dom knew about it. I thought it was very interesting actually, though I wasn't going to become her "friend." She said that the boy she had known in college ended up in a nice vanilla relationship, though she had wanted to expose him more to D/s, as he was so recognizably submissive with women, and she thought he would have liked it. I'm sorry that people didn't like my post, I meant no harm!

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RE: sub boy as "friend," not boyfriend - 5/16/2010 10:06:27 AM

neloangelo1227

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subartist

I'm sorry that people didn't like my post, I meant no harm!

I don't think anyone disliked your post, dude. It has merely sparked some interesting debate. :-)

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RE: sub boy as "friend," not boyfriend - 5/16/2010 11:09:34 AM

porcelaine

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subartist,

quote:

But I didn't want to make anyone upset, or to offend anyone, and I apologize if my post was weird to folks.

That didn't occur. At least not on my end. The dominant's awareness of the situation and comfort with it doesn't change the fact that she was the conduit for his submissive kinks. His interest in her wasn't a threat to the dominant party so his services were permitted. It would be no different than non-kink situations where people befriend those they have an attraction to. That interest still exists even if it isn't reciprocated. If they desire more anything they say and do is colored by that reality. It isn't an issue for everyone, but in my role it wouldn't be okay to have someone close to me that harbored those ideas.

quote:

I think that when trying to recreate it, she surely must have realized there was a Domme aspect to what she was doing

Not necessarily. Submissiveness doesn't imply the person is service oriented or domestic in any way. She may have abhorred the latter and found a neat way to get around it.

~porcelaine

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