Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold?

Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (Full Version)

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Pyramus -> Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 1:45:16 AM)
I love what I think is the entire 1950s dynamic (man is man, woman is woman and mom at the same time). I also see, in this dynamic, the woman catering to her man, and, well, if he wants to lift her skirt while she cooks, smack her ass, and have her take care of him in the bedroom while bound to the bedposts, I still think that's within the bounds of the 1950s dynamic. Do you?

bluefireeyez -> RE: Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 2:57:43 AM)
This depends on your version of the 1950s household in your head. If you remember the movie Mona Lisa Smile, the women were trying to teach their daughters to control their men while appearing like the perfect submissive wife. This was done by making the man think he wanted what was actually the girl's idea. (Sorry but your post reminded me of this for some reason) For me, the pure 1950's lifestyle seems to be a little hard to actually live in this day and age. We all have several different roles we play in our lives. The psychologist in me believes that if a man is a father, he should spend as much time nurturing their children as the mother. Also, with women working (and having to work), I think it is good that men do cook more. It is almost essential to most families I know that the men step into the "woman's" role and prepare meals, do housework, or anything else that needs done. I know if I didn't get home until 7 or 8 and my Master expected me to cook, clean, etc, I would be non too happy. In the mentality of it, I do think that D/s fits well. I will offer my Master my perspective, advice, thoughts, and feeling on a subject. Ultimately, the decision is His and I will abide by it. From what I've read on the boards, a lot of Dom/sub and even some Master/slave relationships are like this.

crazyml -> RE: Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 3:58:26 AM)
Hello there. To me (and I'm sure there's a spectrum of personal definitions of '50's household), 50's household implies a relationship built according to the slightly stereotypical vision of what it meant to run a household in the 50's. This implies (and I stress that I'm not claiming to be the arbiter of this definition, so this is just my pov) an apparent power imbalance - She stays at home and runs the household, he goes out to work and "provides". The stereotype is often extended to presume that her role was subservient to his - that she would defer to him on decisions, and (extending it further) that he might punish her for failure to meet his expectations/obey his commands etc. I think that the stereotype is a removed from reality in a number of respects - my granny (wife to a doctor) was a 1950's wife and she would beat you over the head if you tried to imply any kind of power imbalance, or that her husband had any kind of right to make decisions without consulting her. She'd go further in fact and say that if anything, she had more freedom to decide most things (food, decor, holidays, etc) than he did. My granny insists that she was betrayed by the feminist movemement of the 1960's which (in her view) sought to devalue her position and drive her out to work. While this is only testimony from one person, I have a sense that the the stereptypical "1950's household" is a little bit mythological... sure some husbands did insist on submission, but I'd be willing to bet that many many didn't, and indeed that there was a reasonable proportion that went to work in silky knickers as a reminder of the fact that the wife was Mistress of the house. So.. my nerdy response to your OP is - BDSM can fit into a 1950's household in much the same way as it can into a 1990's household or a 2010's household... But going back to the stereotype - which is still a stereotype even if it's based on a slightly mythologized version of an actual 1950's household. When I see the term used here, I presume a patriarchal relationship in which the man dominates and the woman submits (again - that's just what I presume!), I've see definitions that play the power imbalance down - some would say it's not about power, just about "roles". But I don't presume any more than that - If you read some of the profiles on her of women looking for 1950's HH some explicitely say that they're not interested in kink... they just want that implicit power dynamic or certain roles. Others, are looking for the dynamic, plus spanking plus dressing up etc etc.. So even in the context of kink I'd say that I wouldn't presume kinkiness in a 1950's reln - just a patriarchal power imbalance, but there's absolutely no reason why there shouldn't also be a little kink... [edited for typos]

DarkSteven -> RE: Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 4:52:55 AM)
I consider there to be two places where D/s can apply - the bedroom, and outside the bedroom. If it applies ONLY in the bedroom, you have kinky sex. If it applies ONLY outside, then you have DD, HoH, TiH, or what you call 50s household. I like it both places.

IronBear -> RE: Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 5:07:29 AM)
Whilst much of my upbringing was heavily influenced by the Victorian and Edwardian period through my parents, and various Grand Parents, Aunts, Uncles as well as a goodly smattering of Great Aunts, I was at school during the 1950's where we had ice chests and in summer waited eagerly for the ice man to arrive with his horse drawn cart laden with blocks of ice, the milkman with his horse drawn milk cart laden with dairy pails of milk from which he would fill your quart or pint jugs. The same for the baker also and of course the out door dunny cans were exchanged for empty ones by the Dunny man on his horse drawn cart. In the early part of the 1950's we still had some food rationing and certainly some petrol rationing. I can remember the arival in our country town in rural Victoria (Australia) of the refrigerators powered by kerosene and later by electricity. The local airport was serviced daily by one of my favourite aircraft the DC3. (Twin engine propeller driven beasty, which I have piloted many times since they were taken out of general service). It was a time when women were by and large expected to manage and upkeep the home including catering and child raising whilst the men went to work. The man was indeed the Master of his home but like with so many organizations it is the secretary who is the king maker and the real power behind the throne. For secretary also read house wife. many times i have seen a smart wife persuade her husband to follow a specific course in the belief that this was his decision alone. The 50's were also the time when we never locked our doors or cars, left keys in the ignition and even if you were out, a neighbour may drop in to borrow a cup of sugar and leave a note to this effect. neighbours knew everyone and looked out for those folks living near them. It was in some ways, a simpler world where black and white were clearly defined. If you were young and did something stupid, the local cop would mostly kick your arse all the way home whilst you preyed that he didn't tell your father. The same cop would also be found spending time with the elderly and war vets helping them with government documents and generally policed from his knowledge of those under his area and from a position of being respected rather than hated or feared. here it was where I saw daily the meaning of Australian mateship, what it meant to be "true blue dinki die" . This was a world similar to the Victorian where the man ruled but this did not prevent a woman from ruling her home if the male wasn't their or had died. I do know from being curious and kinky as a lad, that BDSM was present and practised quite widely in my town/city, but those to whom I have spoken to about this in my younger days and since when revisiting old family friends, had never heard of SSC or consenting or any of those guide lines we use today. It seems that in many cases we were looking at rope bondage in the bedroom and in some cases discipline being stroked with a cane used in earnest and not play. Perhaps this may help, my memory is a little fuzzy about the '50's but this is how I remember it. It was exciting and of course we had the advent of Rock n Roll.

jbcurious -> RE: Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 5:11:10 AM)
The way I see a 1950's household is that it enables the sub to put all of her focus on her Dom. To derss in a manner that he desires, whether he wants that control to extend to actually laying out her clothes or just making his preference known is up to the parties involved. It's about creating a home environment that when his coworkers are stopping for a few at the bar before going home, he's thinking "poor bastards" as he knows that what is waiting for him at home is exactly what he wants. I'm a strong believer in the old saying that a woman should be a lady in public, a gourmet chef in the kitchen and a slut in the bedroom, although I would hope that it would in reality extend well outside the actual bedroom. [:)] It's about knowing his tastes in everything, mastering the ability to cook the things he loves, of being the perfect hostess should he choose to entertain, becoming well read on subjects he likes to discuss, in general... making his life as pleasant as possible for him in all ways. As far as the control dynamic... he would have it all but I'm a snart experienced woman and I would hope he would make use of that. I love scenarios in which he would show his control over me in a public way as well, whether it's to have me sit quietly in the salon chair as he tells the stylist how he wants my hair cut, colored, styled... to ordering for me in a restaurant. I love that this might raise a few eyebrows in a time where woman are supposed to be assertive and take charge. Regarding the kink... again, he's in control, so whatever he chooses is what's going to happen. I love this dynamic and hope that I wind up in something along these lines. [:)]

DarkSteven -> RE: Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 5:38:24 AM)
Oh, I forgot to mention - 1950s household is also used as a euphemism for the woman staying at home, with various of degrees of kink blended in.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 6:02:48 AM)
See, I guess this is a place where my being a Domme woman wouldn't be applicable, and that's absolutely fine. The only issue I have with your definition is this one: quote: I love what I think is the entire 1950s dynamic (man is man, woman is woman and mom at the same time). Why isn't the man a dad? A lot has been learned about the long term effects of the absent father. Is there a need to recreate this part of it? - LA

jbcurious -> RE: Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 6:25:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika See, I guess this is a place where my being a Domme woman wouldn't be applicable, and that's absolutely fine. The only issue I have with your definition is this one: quote: I love what I think is the entire 1950s dynamic (man is man, woman is woman and mom at the same time). Why isn't the man a dad? A lot has been learned about the long term effects of the absent father. Is there a need to recreate this part of it? - LA That's the joy of looking at something like this at my age... The kids are grown, you can still enjoy extended family life without the diapers, snotty noses etc that would make it difficult.

cloudboy -> RE: Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 8:12:24 AM)
For a hot-tub time machine experience, watch Mad Men.

NuevaVida -> RE: Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 9:17:25 AM)
Mad Men is my favorite show, and aside from Don Draper being a man-whore, I love the household dynamic they portray. I think much of what we see as the 1950's household is an illusion, though. It's a concept that appears one way but once you look more deeply into it, things are not what they seem. Then again, women like both my grandmothers were expected to hold that illusion, although behind closed doors they were both extremely strong, opinionated and influential women with their husbands. As said in "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" - The man is the head, but the woman is the neck that turns the head (or something like that). My owner and I prefer a lifestyle that emulates the illusion, lol. He is head of household and I submit to him. I most certainly can voice opinions and suggestions (but without the manipulations you see in "Mona Lisa Smile", etc.) and he makes the final decision. "Kink"-wise and sex-wise, he can do whatever he wants with me, at any time, and yes there have been times while cooking dinner that he'll walk up behind me and "sidetrack" me for awhile. While we don't live together, we will at some point, and whether or not he wants me working - full time, part time or not at all - will be up to him and we'll talk about it then.

Pyramus -> RE: Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 12:03:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika Why isn't the man a dad? I was trying to keep the post short to summarize. I don't see any reason why the dad can't be a dad. The concept that perplexes me is the connection with kink. In and of itself, I don't think a 1950s household embodies kink but in my personal idea of the perfect 1950s household, the woman would be a submissive and the man a care-giving dominant. But I was wondering more what others thought of a 1950s household.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 12:22:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pyramus quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika Why isn't the man a dad? I was trying to keep the post short to summarize. I don't see any reason why the dad can't be a dad. Whereas I see every reasons why the dad should be a dad. quote: The concept that perplexes me is the connection with kink. In and of itself, I don't think a 1950s household embodies kink but in my personal idea of the perfect 1950s household, the woman would be a submissive and the man a care-giving dominant. But I was wondering more what others thought of a 1950s household. Well in 2010, wanting to revert back to a 1950's household is to a certain degree, kink. Times have changed and so have households. I mean you could simply be a dominant man with a submissive woman and her not work, but you want an added "feeling" of the 1950s. The thing about the 1950s household is that in the 1950s, anything other than that model was considered unacceptable. Those that chose alternative households were ostracised. What is great about 2010 is that many more models of households are available such as poly household, female-led relationship, Yuppies, Dinks, etc. We are free to chose the one that best fits with our desires and the desires of our partner. Even if I wasn't a Domme, I don't think I'd want to not work. Would I like to work less, be a consultant who picks and chooses the contracts she wants to work on, work 3-4 days a week and have many more holidays, sure. And I'm working towards that. But my spirit would die to be "forced" into being a stay at home mom. I'm sure certain submissive women would say the same. So the bottom line is, what do I think about it? If it meets you and your partners needs and desires, go for it. Just remember that it is your personal ideal and not everyone's. - LA

leadership527 -> RE: Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 12:44:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven I consider there to be two places where D/s can apply - the bedroom, and outside the bedroom. If it applies ONLY in the bedroom, you have kinky sex. If it applies ONLY outside, then you have DD, HoH, TiH, or what you call 50s household. Can I just like to boss my wife around? Maybe we'll call that a BMWA dynamic. chuckles

LadyAngelika -> RE: Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 12:49:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven I consider there to be two places where D/s can apply - the bedroom, and outside the bedroom. If it applies ONLY in the bedroom, you have kinky sex. If it applies ONLY outside, then you have DD, HoH, TiH, or what you call 50s household. Can I just like to boss my wife around? Maybe we'll call that a BMWA dynamic. chuckles At this point I'm going to request a glossary of acronyms from both of you please. :-) - LA

Andalusite -> RE: Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 1:08:10 PM)
DD = Domestic Discipline, HoH = Head of Household, TiH = Taken in Hand, and I've also seen "surrendered wives" used in this context. 1950's household, in our modern society, is a combination of fantasy elements from it, and realistic compromises with today's society. If someone has a "Victorian Household," it doesn't mean that they forgo flush toilets, hot water in their sinks, and electric lighting, and even the most dedicated Ren Fair and SCA folks bring their cell phones and some other modern conveniences.[;)] I don't see why someone couldn't have fairly intense S/M and/or bondage combined with Victorian or 1950 household elements.

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 1:10:18 PM)
BMWA ---bossing my wife around dynamic. He was just joking around, I think...

LadyAngelika -> RE: Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 1:15:39 PM)
Thanks ladies! I do appreciate the clarifications. - LA

cloudboy -> RE: Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 2:24:53 PM)
HBO passed on Mad Men; I would agree with you that its the best thing on television right now.

IronBear -> RE: Where does BDSM fit in a (typical) 1950s houshold? (5/15/2010 10:52:43 PM)
May Father was the head of our home, a business man respected accross Australia and internationally, I Lodge Master and a jolly good dad. I enjoyed the hours I spent with him and/or my paternal Grandfather both of whom taught me to hunt, fish and shoot responsibly never taking more than we would eat with a few left in the freezer and to respect the farming properties we shot on. Both were hard men but could mostly take time to show and teach a child interesting things like joinery, cabinet making and a multitude of things for which in my adult years I have been thankful for. They were not alone for most of the men in my town/city (10,000 population) who were married were both men and dads with a few widowers in this group too. This appears to be reasonably common certainly in the country areas of Australia and mist certainly in the 1950's.

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