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Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/21/2010 6:21:56 AM

bliss4us09

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Have any of you had the experience of a sub whose desire for pain began to look like a desire to seriously hurt herself? If so, how did you handle it?

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RE: Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/21/2010 6:45:20 AM

sunshinemiss

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Self-harm can be a symptom of serious psych issues. Professional help is the way to go.

*good luck.

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 5/21/2010 6:46:04 AM >

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RE: Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/21/2010 6:46:05 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
Self-harm is a symptom of serious psych issues. Professional help is the way to go.

bingo

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RE: Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/21/2010 7:10:15 AM

bliss4us09

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Thanks. That is the direction I'm headed though she is (as one might expect) resistant.

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RE: Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/21/2010 7:36:25 AM

DarkSteven

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I did and used disapproval as well as punishment to try to change that. It was moderately successful. However, she had other, major, issues that made her backslide and prevented real progress in the relationship.

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RE: Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/21/2010 7:52:02 AM

sirsholly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Self-harm can be a symptom of serious psych issues. Professional help is the way to go.

*good luck.

i agree with Sunny

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RE: Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/21/2010 8:39:23 AM

Angelsprey

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I used to cut myself, still have the scars. It stopped when my Master ordered me to never do it again, reminded me I was his and I was hurting Him as well as myself.

Either replace her need for pain with something less damaging like wax or ice burn or get her some proffesional help. But remember it might be something she needs to do, she will only stop once the reason she's doing it has been resolved. Look under the surface.

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RE: Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/21/2010 9:12:31 AM

dove967

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Former cutter here as well. Understanding the reasons I chose THAT particular method to vent my emotional pain and getting the right kind of treatment was key to stopping. Now, my reasons for enjoying/enduring pain given by Daddy are completely different and not connected to the ones I hurt myself over. It's hard to explain, I just know they're different. Could a submissive self injure via her Dom? Perhaps. If I were her Dom, however, I would definately insist she get some professional help before I lay another stroke to her and find non-physical forms of punishment or discipline until then.

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RE: Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/21/2010 10:04:35 AM

LillyoftheVally

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I have found that people who havent self harmed have little to no understanding of why people do it and often assume the need comes from the same place.

Much as people say go to a councilor or whatever my advice is first to ask your partner, what does she get out of pain, why does she want it, hell what does she get out of submission.

We often like to make it all fluffy and nice, I was asked in one relationship to write down why I was submissive etc and to be honest, I was and its not all lovely stuff, its not all empowering and self affirming some does come from dark nasty corners, the issue is about balance if it swings to be more self hatred than healing then stop.

I found that any partner trying to get involved in my own issues relating to self harm were counter productive, I don't want to rely on a relationship to prevent me from sticking my arm in a fire, I want my self respect to stop it.

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RE: Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/21/2010 10:06:33 AM

bliss4us09

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Thanks Angelsprey and dove 967. This did start as simple cutting (which I had encountered before) but progressed to deep cuts, serious bleeding, stitches, etc. Got the hospital to check her in for a psych evaluation but she has regressed since then. Will try again.

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RE: Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/21/2010 10:26:52 AM

marie2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bliss4us09

Have any of you had the experience of a sub whose desire for pain began to look like a desire to seriously hurt herself? If so, how did you handle it?

I'm curious, in what ways does she want to "seriously hurt" herself?

In other words, does she want to do actually do harm to her body, her mind, her life, or does she specifically crave physical pain for the endorphine rush or some other pleasureable reason?

On Edit: I just saw your above post.

< Message edited by marie2 -- 5/21/2010 10:28:40 AM >

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RE: Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/21/2010 10:37:32 AM

lovingpet

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I have never been a cutter or what is traditionally considered "self harm". I did, however, often do pain play on my own. Mostly this was before I had my partner and early on when I didn't know how else to fill that part of my need for him in his absence. I just considered it filling in the gaps, but I can see how easily it could have been something else entirely. I gleefully showed off some pictures of one such session to my partner who called a halt to me doing ANY further play on my own. He had no particular issue with the intensity of the play or the marks that occurred. He was more concerned by the fact that I did that to MYSELF and that I apparently enjoyed the doing. It concerned him that I was quite proud of it and saw nothing at all wrong with it. I have done worse to myself than he has ever done so far...and that's saying a lot. He said that if it wasn't outright self-harming, it was bordering on it and especially so based on my motivations and what I was getting out of it (the release coming more from the doing than the receiving). He simply said it was not to happen anymore. It hasn't. I am tempted at times, but he does not want me doing something to myself that is going to be harmful.

If this is a definite case of self-harming behavior, which in reading it seems it is, professional help combined with your concern and boundaries is called for. This submissive should be obedient. Regardless of other issues, an order is an order. That sounds strict as hell, but I can promise you that, if I were to slip in this matter, my partner would be beyond pissed and I would have some serious consequences to face...possibly even him ending things with me. Not taking care of what is his is simply unacceptable. It doesn't matter if it's self-harm, eating right, getting enough sleep, or going to the doctor about that suspicious lump. I am expected to take the utmost care of myself and not just for my own benefit, but so I am at my best to be of service and use to HIM.

I wish you the best. Challenges like these are often difficult and will test your relationship significantly. That sounds terrible, but it may be a blessing in the long run if you are able to bear with each other. I think getting professional help at this stage along with your guidance and discipline and support have the potential to help her heal. Only she can determine that, however. I wish you both the best.

lovingpet

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RE: Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/21/2010 12:06:39 PM

porcelaine

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bliss4us09,

quote:

Have any of you had the experience of a sub whose desire for pain began to look like a desire to seriously hurt herself? If so, how did you handle it?

Cutters typically fall in two camps. Those that cut to feel pain and others that cut to release it. You'd need to know which side she's on and why she's unable to process her dilemma without cutting. In the beginning it is an arbitrary solution that really becomes habitual over time. The triggers change as well. What once set her off will usually grow until all sorts of things trigger the need to cut. This can seem confusing but it usually goes back to that larger issue I originally mentioned. Now it's become a coping mechanism for that problem and others. Because in her head it works.

There's also the physical element. Seeing the scars is a reminder and can bring on feelings of disgust or elation, depending on how she views the act. Some believe it's wrong and they're aware they have no self-control in that area. Others take pride in their battle scars. But there's a psychosomatic part to this to. The cuts are intentionally placed. Most know what to avoid and how deep to slice to prevent damage. Uncanny I'm certain, but as you see they've already predetermined where this will and won't venture off to. Yes, mistakes occur and suicidal desires can be present. But it doesn't occur because the individual has no desire to go there. Regardless of what their behavior suggests. It is often a roundabout way of taking control.

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RE: Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/21/2010 3:24:07 PM

Missokyst

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I also find that all too many will judge someone as "needing counselling" because they have engaged in self harm. My question to THEM that proclaim it to be sick, is how can they say your sick is sick, but mine is ok. Being beaten, or doing it yourself. Hmm.. Please tell me why one is ok but the other is not?

If it makes you wet, calm, joyous, relaxed, where is the sickness?
Frankly the hipocrisy disgusts me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

I have found that people who havent self harmed have little to no understanding of why people do it and often assume the need comes from the same place.

Much as people say go to a councilor or whatever my advice is first to ask your partner, what does she get out of pain, why does she want it, hell what does she get out of submission.

We often like to make it all fluffy and nice, I was asked in one relationship to write down why I was submissive etc and to be honest, I was and its not all lovely stuff, its not all empowering and self affirming some does come from dark nasty corners, the issue is about balance if it swings to be more self hatred than healing then stop.

I found that any partner trying to get involved in my own issues relating to self harm were counter productive, I don't want to rely on a relationship to prevent me from sticking my arm in a fire, I want my self respect to stop it.

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RE: Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/21/2010 4:01:13 PM

lally2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I also find that all too many will judge someone as "needing counselling" because they have engaged in self harm. My question to THEM that proclaim it to be sick, is how can they say your sick is sick, but mine is ok. Being beaten, or doing it yourself. Hmm.. Please tell me why one is ok but the other is not?

If it makes you wet, calm, joyous, relaxed, where is the sickness?
Frankly the hipocrisy disgusts me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

I have found that people who havent self harmed have little to no understanding of why people do it and often assume the need comes from the same place.

Much as people say go to a councilor or whatever my advice is first to ask your partner, what does she get out of pain, why does she want it, hell what does she get out of submission.

We often like to make it all fluffy and nice, I was asked in one relationship to write down why I was submissive etc and to be honest, I was and its not all lovely stuff, its not all empowering and self affirming some does come from dark nasty corners, the issue is about balance if it swings to be more self hatred than healing then stop.

I found that any partner trying to get involved in my own issues relating to self harm were counter productive, I don't want to rely on a relationship to prevent me from sticking my arm in a fire, I want my self respect to stop it.

not being a self harmer i cant realistically comment, but im with you here largely because i recall a thread some time back regarding massochists and what they enjoyed doing to themselves when the outlet wasnt available to them via play. they all seemed pretty happy with themselves. and thats what popped into my head when i read the OP. so i was surprised to read all the posts suggesting it was an illness to be honest.

i wish i could remember when that thread ran, but it must be at least a year ago maybe more.

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RE: Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/21/2010 6:27:22 PM

warlock1935

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My experience has been that BDSM and D/s are not therapy. I've overcome small hangups, but this sounds like it's best left to a psychologist.

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RE: Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/21/2010 7:08:05 PM

BabieGothika

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That happened to me years ago. I was hurting myself all the time, cutting me and beatin me with a belt, ect. You need to look for profesional help.
Im bipolar and i have my psychiatrict who has helped me a lot.
Good luck to you

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RE: Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/22/2010 1:22:22 AM

IronBear

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I also once had a slave who was a cutter. I also informed her that when she cut herself she was damaging my property which I did not look kindly on. It was unfortunately (or fortunately depending from the point of view), an LDR so her assurances that she had stopped were a false as most of what she told me. We parted ways.

people who self harm generally either have no access to a pain giver (for a pain slut) or need as stated earlier of a trained professional.

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RE: Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/22/2010 1:52:30 AM

LillyoftheVally

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
not being a self harmer i cant realistically comment, but im with you here largely because i recall a thread some time back regarding massochists and what they enjoyed doing to themselves when the outlet wasnt available to them via play. they all seemed pretty happy with themselves. and thats what popped into my head when i read the OP. so i was surprised to read all the posts suggesting it was an illness to be honest.

i wish i could remember when that thread ran, but it must be at least a year ago maybe more.

Its as Porcelaine touched on, the reason for the 'cutting' or whatever form of pain it is. Its like many things, context is key. I remember going to a really fantastic lecture about context once, if a Doctor injects morphine into you its ok but if you do it yourself you are a drug addict, if a solider shoots someone then they are doing their job but if a civilian does then its murder.

The human mind is not black and white, the motivations that we have for doing things vary from person to person. Some people self harm because they want attention (I have never seen that as a negative thing, if they are that desperate for attention then clearly they need it) some people self harm because they imitate others, some people self harm because they hate themselves, some people self harm because they love the pain some people slef harm for the release and most people self harm for a mixture of all those reasons.

Not all self harmer's sit in a bathroom rocking back and forwards sobbing. Also even for the self harmer's who do it because they feel negative things won't necessarily benefit from seeing a medical professional I have seen many in my life and not one of them helped me at all. Its something that, as I said, people who don't do it assume they can understand or assume that all people who do it are the same.

Thats why i suggest that the OP asks why, not even for themselves I would even say that when asking they should say they won't ask to be shown the list of reasons, the reasons have to be for the person who does it, and chances are she has never sat down and actually thought about all the reasons, I know that in the five years I had been doing it before being asked to write it down I hadn't thought about it as clearly previously.

Knowing the reason is the best way to understand, and then to either see if your partner can help (if it is about pain) maybe though the best thing will be for the partner to help by making sure that you have a stock of antiseptic. I don't know without knowing the person, and neither does anyone on the board.

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RE: Likes pain vs. self harm - 5/22/2010 9:00:48 AM

Viridana

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I think that if you resolve to physical pain to divert from psychological pain, strong emotions or whatnot, you have a problem on your hands that is best handled with professional help.

< Message edited by Viridana -- 5/22/2010 9:03:00 AM >

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