EDL UAF ... The Best Way to Protest? (Full Version)

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LillyoftheVally -> EDL UAF ... The Best Way to Protest? (5/22/2010 3:36:56 AM)

I watched Young British and Angry the other day because I have friends in both groups. I thought the program was balanced and insightful and it raised some interesting issues.

I dont know if you will be able to watch it but this is a link to the whole program

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/search/?q=Young,%20British%20and%20Angry

I can totally understand why the EDL was formed, although I do not agree with the way they go about things, and I don't agree with a lot of the members ideas the fact that the extreme group went to Luton that day is bound to have caused upset. The problem as I see it is that Muslims have become the easy target, in each generation we have some kind of folk demon be it black people, single parents, gay people whatever we seem to need someone to blame and the EDL seem largely to blame any muslim for the fact that they don't have a job, it gets to the stage that they have a totally distorted view of reality.

So then the UAF, I am personally against fascism but as a bit of a bleeding heart liberal I do not think I have any right to tell people what their views should be, though I would never vote for the BNP and would never join the EDL I do not think going and beating up members of either group are the way to go about it, and indeed the UAF itself becomes almost inseparable from the people they claim to dislike.

So what I have been wondering is do extreme protest groups end up causing more harm than good, and is there really much difference between left and right wing groups if their values are rigid and involve 'kicking people out' because of their values?

Also for people who know about the EDL and/or UAF what are your feelings about the groups? Is anyone here a member? If so why?



LadyEllen -> RE: EDL UAF ... The Best Way to Protest? (5/22/2010 5:52:16 AM)

I think what the programme demonstrated is that the incident in Luton was what served to ignite something that has been brewing and festering for decades now, and which accelerated over the New Labour years - a sense amongst the ordinary people of this country that they and their needs were being consistently ignored; because they were and will continue to be.

What drives the resentment and now anger of the ordinary people boils down to two very simple things - reasonable, affordable housing and reasonable jobs, and all of the life possibilities that flow from the availability of those two simple things, alongside the desperation of the current and prevailing circumstances of their absence and consequent deterioration in life possibilities.

That these same problems affect other communities than the white working class that forms the majority of the EDL is notable, yet it is not facts that matter very much in this situation but rather the individual and collective conciousness, and this is one informed with the knowledge that some communities appear to do better for no apparent good reason but rather that authority directs resources and attention unfairly.

That this is hardly so is illustrated in fact by the same if not worse circumstances and effects in the Muslim communities whereby indoctrination into violence, flavoured by Islamic teaching, has only been possible because of the same situations as those affecting other communities. The bottom line is that the ordinary people of this country are angry, have been for some time and will only become more angry if steps are not taken to either resolve the problems they face or to suppress their expressions - in this the incursion into civil liberties and enhancing of police powers by New Labour is interesting to say the least.

As the coming cuts come to bite more fiercely, we can only expect the anger to grow, and the numbers of those sufficiently angry to take action to grow too. The question is and will remain, what are the politicians going to do about it when in reality we are governed by the financial markets for whom the problems of ordinary people are of no interest or profit?

E



Jeffff -> RE: EDL UAF ... The Best Way to Protest? (5/22/2010 5:53:57 AM)

Whenever I see "Luton"... I can't help but think of Monty Python.


Back to the topic!

AnglophileDom



LadyEllen -> RE: EDL UAF ... The Best Way to Protest? (5/22/2010 6:04:56 AM)

For the benefit of our colonial readership - the incident in Luton referred to was last year when the local regiment marched through the streets on their return from Afghanistan (or Iraq, not sure which) where they had lost several men.

The town turned out to welcome them and thank them for their service and it was a happy occasion, even given the losses suffered.

The march however was also attended by a dozen or so extremist Islamic types, who waved banners proclaiming the troops to be murderers, rapists and a few other unsavoury things and who shouted similar obsecenities at the troops as they passed.

This incensed the locals and a violent confrontation was only just averted by a handful of police who stopped the crowd of locals from ripping said demonstrators to pieces. Most of the protesters were arrested and later convicted of public order offences and a few of those confronting them too.

The incident went out on national TV and within a short time the EDL (English Defence League) was formed nationwide. Since then the EDL has demonstrated in several locations, drawing in members from all over to do so, with their main raison d'etre being to resist the Islamification of England and, more widely, of Europe. Geert Wilders, the Dutch MP, is one of their heroes and the UK Independence Party generally supports them as it did Wilders.

As is usual with such groups, the EDL has attracted all sorts and the general consensus view they hold seems to be one that is hostile to Islam generally, not merely the extremist expressions found at Luton. Consequently they have attracted many racists and nazis too, though amongst their number is a wide diversity of mainly white English society including even LGBT people as well as lads seeking camaraderie and those looking for a fight.

E



Jeffff -> RE: EDL UAF ... The Best Way to Protest? (5/22/2010 6:28:25 AM)

E. I have long held the opinion that any man has the right to say anything he wants. He also has the right to be punched in the head for it.

I do not believe in the concept of genetic inferiority. I don't like racism in any form.

But if you go out of your way to inflame folks, you shouldn't be suprised by a reaction.

Free speech comes with responsibility. That is often overlooked.



LadyEllen -> RE: EDL UAF ... The Best Way to Protest? (5/22/2010 6:48:52 AM)

There's no doubt that our two systems have become markedly different in this area Jefffffff.

Whereas in the US the public policy and consequent law making must revolve around the constitutional rights afforded to everyone, the public policy and consequent law making here revolves around the notion that it is not good to rely on the public to enforce law and impose penalties - ie smacking some dickhead in the gob for his offensive conduct is discouraged, and a defence of provocation is usually only relevant when it comes to sentencing.

E



LillyoftheVally -> RE: EDL UAF ... The Best Way to Protest? (5/22/2010 7:35:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

E. I have long held the opinion that any man has the right to say anything he wants. He also has the right to be punched in the head for it.

I do not believe in the concept of genetic inferiority. I don't like racism in any form.

But if you go out of your way to inflame folks, you shouldn't be suprised by a reaction.

Free speech comes with responsibility. That is often overlooked.


I am not an eye for an eye kind of person, but I agree free speech has to have comeuppance, the problem is that the group has swelled and they now protest anything muslim, Halal meat in a fast food chain, a new mosque being built whatever they get up and stage a demo, the UAF (unite against fascists) hear about it, go too and then there is a massive fight in the middle of the streets. Sometimes it seems that some of the people join purely for the violence aspect which begs the question why dont they just meet in a hall and beat each other black and blue and let the people who want to use their right to protest to do it without dragging people into it.



DCWoody -> RE: EDL UAF ... The Best Way to Protest? (5/22/2010 10:10:50 AM)

One group has a broad aim I agree with, another I don't...they're both suffering from complete idiots tagging along with their protests, EDL comes off worse because, potentially surprisingly, the media seems to think a group chanting nigger nigger nigger is worse than a group trying to abolish freedom of speech.

I think the white working class feeling of oppression is finding a valid outlet in the english democrats party, and...perhaps EDL will manage to organise itself better and kick the tards back to BNP....UAF are just wankers. As far as I could tell, the EDL vs UAF protests were the most protested things in 2009...so certainly worth keeping an eye on.

If I were to support one or other of them it'd definitely be EDL, but....I can't see it happening. They claim not to be a racist group, but if half the people attending are....pretty tenuous claim. Both groups seem to be made up of a mixture of idiots looking for a fight, and idiots saying stupid things. I suspect they've both peaked too. UAF has lost a lot of support with the freedom of speech thing, and the police have pretty much written off EDL as football hooligans without a match to go to.



LadyEllen -> RE: EDL UAF ... The Best Way to Protest? (5/22/2010 11:24:12 AM)

To be honest I wouldnt want to join either group - they each appear to me to be nothing but violent mobs with little coherent ideology that isnt wholly founded on ignorant thuggery and bigotry.

If it were a matter of being obliged to choose sides though it'd have to be the EDL I went with, in the probably forlorn hope that it might be possible to temper it into something more valid and worthwhile and in the strong belief that lawful freedom of expression has to be upheld, which appears to be directly contrary to the stance of the UAF.

E



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