RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians"

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (Full Version)

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Sanity -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 9:38:50 AM)
Newt is far more Libertarian than anyone the Democrats are likely to run, and he has a far better chance of winning than anyone the Libertarians are likely to run. I hate to do it but I go with the least of two evils, as most Americans do - which is why we had G.W. for eight years instead of either of the alternatives. quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Sanity, Get what? You're unable to refute the claim, so you're desperately trolling for substitute bait. Libertarianism sounds good but is impractical as policy. Besides, just last week you were rooting for Newt to run, so you're casting your lot with the mainstream Republicans rather than the Teas or the Libertarians anyway.

realcoolhand -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 9:40:23 AM)
Whoa, whoa; so far I've noticed several folks assert that civil rights laws (like the Thirteenth Amendment, 42 U.S.C. 1983, the 1964 Civil Rights Act et cetera) don't stop folks being bigots, and are therefore worthless. Personally, I don't give a good goddamn if everyone is a bigot; civil rights laws protect me and mine from the EFFECTS of that bigotry, and do so right nicely. We're all free to be christian-pagan-white-supremacists if we want to be, we should have that freedom. We should NOT be free to refuse service in a restaurant, et cetera, on the basis of race, gender, lawful alienage, and (god willing before too long) sexual orientation (c'mon Dean Kagan!). Not only do such expressions of bigotry harm those who are excluded from commerce, it impedes commerce itself, and thereby harms all of us. Your freedom ends at the tip of my nose, be it a physical, economic, political, religious, or social nose.

realcoolhand -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 9:47:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity I hate to do it but I go with the least of two evils, as most Americans do - which is why we had G.W. for eight years instead of either of the alternatives. quote: I'm with you bud; definitely bankrupting ourselves by diving into two foreign wars is always better than possibly bankrupting ourselves by seriously discussing green energy policy.

Sanity -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 9:49:21 AM)
When you start throwing your bombs because you can't discuss things rationally, for some strange reason I feel that justifies my releasing a few well deserved, well crafted bombs of my own. In this case I would like to get along with Louve, and I have in the past, as we've exchanged some friendly cmails and things... so I thought I'd point out how I was disappointed that the conversation had sunk to the typical level that trolls like you, thompsonx and domi typically inhabit in hopes that Louve and I might in the future be capable of maintaining more elevated discussions. I think she's smart enough to get it, and I think that just maybe she did. (Yes Louve, I will. You have a nice day as well). quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Back any far left loon into a corner and watch them start throwing bombs... [:D] While it might be fun to get into a tit for tat exchange of meaningless personal attacks with you.... What's fun is you don't see the irony in your own statements. But I guess as long as you put that little smiley face you are so fond of at the end all is well.

vincentML -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 9:52:30 AM)
quote: Libertarianism is far more practical than your progressivism / socialism / liberalism / communism in which every thought, action or deed must be submitted to an all-powerful governmental bureaucracy or dictator for approval. Sanity, this is just flaming hyperbole. Where in the United States has this ever occurred? Not some random incident but every thought, action or deed? Please spare us the emotional bs.

Sanity -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 9:55:02 AM)
Why limit it to the United States vincent? Of course it has happened, and it is happening, and it can happen here.

realcoolhand -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 10:00:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Libertarianism is far more practical than your progressivism / socialism / liberalism / communism in which every thought, action or deed must be submitted to an all-powerful governmental bureaucracy or dictator for approval. Sanity, this is just flaming hyperbole. Where in the United States has this ever occurred? Not some random incident but every thought, action or deed? Please spare us the emotional bs. Exactly. I used to be a Libertarian (even anarcho-libertarian?) because I hate, hate, hate the idea of any coercive authority. Then I realized that the only rational alternative to coercive power is reasoned consensus on an arrangement that everyone can accept, regardless of where the fall in the social order. Moreover, I realized that my erstwhile compatriots were not capable of formulating a reasoned basis for their ideology. There was nothing more beneath their insistence on "liberty" than a knee jerk reaction against the prospect of sharing their toys, or respecting others who live differently than they do. Every "argument" in support of their positions was really nothing more than quarrelsome mockery of "left-wing loons," and whenever asked for some logical proof in support of the "conservative" ideology they would begin spouting slogans, or simply rehashing the same old parade of horribles. Only a stable society can be "free," and only a rational society, committed to procedural fairness and the rights of every individual citizen, can be stable. That's why I'm now a liberal.

realcoolhand -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 10:01:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Of course it has happened, and it is happening, and it can happen here. Same old parade of horribles; no specifics, no explanations, just fear.

Sanity -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 10:07:42 AM)
Why would I need to give specifics when anyone with half a mind should already possess a keen awareness.

vincentML -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 10:08:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot Let me start by saying the Civil Rights Act has not stopped individuals from being racist, sexist or anything else. That said, if an individual is racist and choses to work for the governament then s/he would have to adhere to the standards that job entails. Just as I, as a nurse, must adhere to the standards my workplace dictates to me. I abhore racism,sexism etc. I have and will protested against it, I will boycott any group or individual who is racist, racial slurs and the like are not allowed in my home. I will and have asked people to leave my home for using them. I am not naive enough to believe that we can legislate away racism/sexism, etc in individuals. It will always exist. The solution, IMO, is for all good people to reject and make life as uncomfortable as possible for those who think like that. mbmbn edited to add : Current laws have not stopped discrimination or prejudice. Shunning and rejection would be much more effective. Again, imo. You are stunningly ignorant of the history of segregated lunch counters, bathrooms, and drinking fountains. The 1964 Civil Rights Act was not meant to legislate away prejudice. It was meant to legislate away prejudicial practices. Not just by governmental agencies but by private business owners who offer public acommodations of any sort. This was done under the umbrella of the Interstate Commerce Clause and upheld by the Supreme Court. Rand Paul and the portion of the Libertarian platform that you left out object to Title II of the Act. As for the good people who will shun and make life uncomfortable for racists ... shit! Do you mean "good people" like Bull Conners who turned the dogs loose on African American protestors or the "good people" of the KKK who killed those three boys and left their bodies buried in a dirt dam in the woods the summer Mississippi was burning? Please, read a history book that was not published in Texas before you give such uninformed opinions.

vincentML -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 10:12:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Why would I need to give specifics when anyone with half a mind should already possess a keen awareness. You have none to give.

youngsubgeoff -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 10:17:53 AM)
There is no such thing as a conservative liberitarian. Rand Paul (and Glen Beck for that matter) should shut up, because, as usual, they have no idea what they are talking about. And yes, Librertarianism CAN work as a government idea.

rulemylife -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 10:19:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity When you start throwing your bombs because you can't discuss things rationally, for some strange reason I feel that justifies my releasing a few well deserved, well crafted bombs of my own. In this case I would like to get along with Louve, and I have in the past, as we've exchanged some friendly cmails and things... so I thought I'd point out how I was disappointed that the conversation had sunk to the typical level that trolls like you, thompsonx and domi typically inhabit in hopes that Louve and I might in the future be capable of maintaining more elevated discussions. I think she's smart enough to get it, and I think that just maybe she did. (Yes Louve, I will. You have a nice day as well). quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Back any far left loon into a corner and watch them start throwing bombs... [:D] While it might be fun to get into a tit for tat exchange of meaningless personal attacks with you.... What's fun is you don't see the irony in your own statements. But I guess as long as you put that little smiley face you are so fond of at the end all is well. Ohhhhh.................you forgot the cute little smiley face. I'm so disappointed.

rulemylife -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 10:28:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Why would I need to give specifics when anyone with half a mind should already possess a keen awareness. A keen awareness of what? Come on Sanity, spit it out. A keen awareness of the radical socialism that is overtaking our country? Even though the Obama administration's policies are far less radical than those implemented under Bush?

NeedToUseYou -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 10:30:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Given that this is as far as you've gotten in 46 years, you'll likely die first. quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: I'd have to read it first. Yeah, all these new laws, it's hard to keep up. Almost through with the Constitution yet? Well, I am familiar with it in a general sense, but I've never actually "read" the thing. So, I'm going to read it, before I comment, on if I agree with the whole damn thing. LOL. Well, sorry, I have more constructive things to do, generally, than reading legislation that was enacted over a decade before I was born. Try not to let it upset you so much, I would have read it by now, but had to mow the lawn, and the belt broke on me. Do, you forgive me, teacher... I beg you. I just have been to busy pulling myself out of the total poverty I was born into to keep up on your reading list. I will flog myself for letting you down. Hopefully that will make it better.

Musicmystery -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 10:34:35 AM)
What are you on about now? Get a life. You made a silly statement, you got a silly response. By the way, don't confuse it with the Civil War--that was even more decades before you were born. Incredibly, though, some people still know about it.

Owner59 -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 12:34:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Maddow is good at the "gotcha" stuff, isn't she? Yeah,<snort> like Couric asking Palin what she read, was an attack question. It`s only gotcha if one`s been gotten.To bad your party has so many to be gotten. We`ll take your non-answer/diversion, as a no. Your reply is a mix of jealously and defensiveness,Rich. Well republican,live by the wedge issue,die by the wedge issue.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 12:40:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Why limit it to the United States vincent? Of course it has happened, and it is happening, and it can happen here. quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Why would I need to give specifics when anyone with half a mind should already possess a keen awareness. So in other words... once again, you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about, and are simply spouting some crap you heard someone say on the radio. OK, got it.

Owner59 -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 1:08:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Sanity, Get what? You're unable to refute the claim, so you're desperately trolling for substitute bait. Libertarianism sounds good but is impractical as policy. Besides, just last week you were rooting for Newt to run, so you're casting your lot with the mainstream Republicans rather than the Teas or the Libertarians anyway. Conservatives really don`t want libertarian policy or they`d have done it already.The low/no government things sound nice but ask most cons if they wants legalized drugs and they revert back(ward) to GOP. And ask Libertarians if they want social conservatives telling them how to live,who to love,what she can to do with her womb, picking and choosing who gets marriage rights based on bigotry,(and now,where one can stay/eat/sleep,based on bigotry) they`ll say hell no,that`s what republicans are for. As an official party,they`re a blip,like the Green Party. They don`t run candidates(ok,maybe one or two but you get my drift)or get on many ballots and don`t count for many votes.They certainly aren`t a threat, OR THREATENING, to the union. For the most part,republicans use Libertarians to hide behind when found in an embarrassing situations.

Musicmystery -> RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertarians" (5/22/2010 2:49:27 PM)
Agreed--Republicans use it for the sound bites, but Libertarians are miles from conservative policy. Of course, today conservatives are miles from conservative policy too.

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