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RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 9:38:50 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Newt is far more Libertarian than anyone the Democrats are likely to run, and he has a far better chance of winning than anyone the Libertarians are likely to run. I hate to do it but I go with the least of two evils, as most Americans do - which is why we had G.W. for eight years instead of either of the alternatives.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Sanity, Get what?

You're unable to refute the claim, so you're desperately trolling for substitute bait.

Libertarianism sounds good but is impractical as policy.

Besides, just last week you were rooting for Newt to run, so you're casting your lot with the mainstream Republicans rather than the Teas or the Libertarians anyway.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 41

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 9:40:23 AM

realcoolhand

Posts: 261
Joined: 3/22/2009
Status: offline

Whoa, whoa; so far I've noticed several folks assert that civil rights laws (like the Thirteenth Amendment, 42 U.S.C. 1983, the 1964 Civil Rights Act et cetera) don't stop folks being bigots, and are therefore worthless. Personally, I don't give a good goddamn if everyone is a bigot; civil rights laws protect me and mine from the EFFECTS of that bigotry, and do so right nicely. We're all free to be christian-pagan-white-supremacists if we want to be, we should have that freedom. We should NOT be free to refuse service in a restaurant, et cetera, on the basis of race, gender, lawful alienage, and (god willing before too long) sexual orientation (c'mon Dean Kagan!). Not only do such expressions of bigotry harm those who are excluded from commerce, it impedes commerce itself, and thereby harms all of us.

Your freedom ends at the tip of my nose, be it a physical, economic, political, religious, or social nose.

< Message edited by realcoolhand -- 5/22/2010 9:42:28 AM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 42

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 9:47:05 AM

realcoolhand

Posts: 261
Joined: 3/22/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity I hate to do it but I go with the least of two evils, as most Americans do - which is why we had G.W. for eight years instead of either of the alternatives.
quote:

I'm with you bud; definitely bankrupting ourselves by diving into two foreign wars is always better than possibly bankrupting ourselves by seriously discussing green energy policy.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 43

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 9:49:21 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

When you start throwing your bombs because you can't discuss things rationally, for some strange reason I feel that justifies my releasing a few well deserved, well crafted bombs of my own. In this case I would like to get along with Louve, and I have in the past, as we've exchanged some friendly cmails and things... so I thought I'd point out how I was disappointed that the conversation had sunk to the typical level that trolls like you, thompsonx and domi typically inhabit in hopes that Louve and I might in the future be capable of maintaining more elevated discussions.

I think she's smart enough to get it, and I think that just maybe she did.

(Yes Louve, I will. You have a nice day as well).

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Back any far left loon into a corner and watch them start throwing bombs...

While it might be fun to get into a tit for tat exchange of meaningless personal attacks with you....

What's fun is you don't see the irony in your own statements.

But I guess as long as you put that little smiley face you are so fond of at the end all is well.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 5/22/2010 9:50:32 AM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 44

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 9:52:30 AM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

Libertarianism is far more practical than your progressivism / socialism / liberalism / communism in which every thought, action or deed must be submitted to an all-powerful governmental bureaucracy or dictator for approval.

Sanity, this is just flaming hyperbole. Where in the United States has this ever occurred? Not some random incident but every thought, action or deed? Please spare us the emotional bs.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 45

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 9:55:02 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Why limit it to the United States vincent?

Of course it has happened, and it is happening, and it can happen here.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 46

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 10:00:39 AM

realcoolhand

Posts: 261
Joined: 3/22/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Libertarianism is far more practical than your progressivism / socialism / liberalism / communism in which every thought, action or deed must be submitted to an all-powerful governmental bureaucracy or dictator for approval.

Sanity, this is just flaming hyperbole. Where in the United States has this ever occurred? Not some random incident but every thought, action or deed? Please spare us the emotional bs.

Exactly. I used to be a Libertarian (even anarcho-libertarian?) because I hate, hate, hate the idea of any coercive authority. Then I realized that the only rational alternative to coercive power is reasoned consensus on an arrangement that everyone can accept, regardless of where the fall in the social order.

Moreover, I realized that my erstwhile compatriots were not capable of formulating a reasoned basis for their ideology. There was nothing more beneath their insistence on "liberty" than a knee jerk reaction against the prospect of sharing their toys, or respecting others who live differently than they do. Every "argument" in support of their positions was really nothing more than quarrelsome mockery of "left-wing loons," and whenever asked for some logical proof in support of the "conservative" ideology they would begin spouting slogans, or simply rehashing the same old parade of horribles. Only a stable society can be "free," and only a rational society, committed to procedural fairness and the rights of every individual citizen, can be stable. That's why I'm now a liberal.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 47

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 10:01:39 AM

realcoolhand

Posts: 261
Joined: 3/22/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Of course it has happened, and it is happening, and it can happen here.

Same old parade of horribles; no specifics, no explanations, just fear.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 48

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 10:07:42 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Why would I need to give specifics when anyone with half a mind should already possess a keen awareness.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 5/22/2010 10:08:21 AM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to realcoolhand)

Post #: 49

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 10:08:52 AM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

Let me start by saying the Civil Rights Act has not stopped individuals from being racist, sexist or anything else.

That said, if an individual is racist and choses to work for the governament then s/he would have to adhere to the standards that job entails. Just as I, as a nurse, must adhere to the standards my workplace dictates to me.

I abhore racism,sexism etc. I have and will protested against it, I will boycott any group or individual who is racist, racial slurs and the like are not allowed in my home. I will and have asked people to leave my home for using them. I am not naive enough to believe that we can legislate away racism/sexism, etc in individuals. It will always exist. The solution, IMO, is for all good people to reject and make life as uncomfortable as possible for those who think like that.

mbmbn

edited to add : Current laws have not stopped discrimination or prejudice. Shunning and rejection would be much more effective. Again, imo.

You are stunningly ignorant of the history of segregated lunch counters, bathrooms, and drinking fountains.

The 1964 Civil Rights Act was not meant to legislate away prejudice. It was meant to legislate away prejudicial practices. Not just by governmental agencies but by private business owners who offer public acommodations of any sort. This was done under the umbrella of the Interstate Commerce Clause and upheld by the Supreme Court. Rand Paul and the portion of the Libertarian platform that you left out object to Title II of the Act.

As for the good people who will shun and make life uncomfortable for racists ... shit! Do you mean "good people" like Bull Conners who turned the dogs loose on African American protestors or the "good people" of the KKK who killed those three boys and left their bodies buried in a dirt dam in the woods the summer Mississippi was burning?

Please, read a history book that was not published in Texas before you give such uninformed opinions.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 5/22/2010 10:09:21 AM >

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)

Post #: 50

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 10:12:18 AM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Why would I need to give specifics when anyone with half a mind should already possess a keen awareness.

You have none to give.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 51

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 10:17:53 AM

youngsubgeoff

Posts: 900
Joined: 9/25/2007
From: The Asylum
Status: offline

There is no such thing as a conservative liberitarian. Rand Paul (and Glen Beck for that matter) should shut up, because, as usual, they have no idea what they are talking about.

And yes, Librertarianism CAN work as a government idea.

_____________________________

You dont need to question my sanity, I can assure you Im quite mad. Its ok though, all the best people are

(in reply to Louve00)

Post #: 52

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 10:19:48 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

When you start throwing your bombs because you can't discuss things rationally, for some strange reason I feel that justifies my releasing a few well deserved, well crafted bombs of my own. In this case I would like to get along with Louve, and I have in the past, as we've exchanged some friendly cmails and things... so I thought I'd point out how I was disappointed that the conversation had sunk to the typical level that trolls like you, thompsonx and domi typically inhabit in hopes that Louve and I might in the future be capable of maintaining more elevated discussions.

I think she's smart enough to get it, and I think that just maybe she did.

(Yes Louve, I will. You have a nice day as well).

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Back any far left loon into a corner and watch them start throwing bombs...

While it might be fun to get into a tit for tat exchange of meaningless personal attacks with you....

What's fun is you don't see the irony in your own statements.

But I guess as long as you put that little smiley face you are so fond of at the end all is well.

Ohhhhh.................you forgot the cute little smiley face.

I'm so disappointed.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 53

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 10:28:33 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Why would I need to give specifics when anyone with half a mind should already possess a keen awareness.

A keen awareness of what?

Come on Sanity, spit it out.

A keen awareness of the radical socialism that is overtaking our country?

Even though the Obama administration's policies are far less radical than those implemented under Bush?

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 54

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 10:30:01 AM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Given that this is as far as you've gotten in 46 years, you'll likely die first.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

I'd have to read it first.

Yeah, all these new laws, it's hard to keep up.

Almost through with the Constitution yet?

Well, I am familiar with it in a general sense, but I've never actually "read" the thing. So, I'm going to read it, before I comment, on if I agree with the whole damn thing.

LOL. Well, sorry, I have more constructive things to do, generally, than reading legislation that was enacted over a decade before I was born.

Try not to let it upset you so much, I would have read it by now, but had to mow the lawn, and the belt broke on me.

Do, you forgive me, teacher...

I beg you. I just have been to busy pulling myself out of the total poverty I was born into to keep up on your reading list.

I will flog myself for letting you down. Hopefully that will make it better.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 55

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 10:34:35 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

What are you on about now?

Get a life. You made a silly statement, you got a silly response.

By the way, don't confuse it with the Civil War--that was even more decades before you were born. Incredibly, though, some people still know about it.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Post #: 56

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 12:34:37 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Maddow is good at the "gotcha" stuff, isn't she?

Yeah,<snort> like Couric asking Palin what she read, was an attack question.

It`s only gotcha if one`s been gotten.To bad your party has so many to be gotten.

We`ll take your non-answer/diversion, as a no.

Your reply is a mix of jealously and defensiveness,Rich.

Well republican,live by the wedge issue,die by the wedge issue.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 57

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 12:40:42 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Why limit it to the United States vincent?

Of course it has happened, and it is happening, and it can happen here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Why would I need to give specifics when anyone with half a mind should already possess a keen awareness.

So in other words... once again, you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about, and are simply spouting some crap you heard someone say on the radio. OK, got it.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 58

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 1:08:47 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Sanity, Get what?

You're unable to refute the claim, so you're desperately trolling for substitute bait.

Libertarianism sounds good but is impractical as policy.

Besides, just last week you were rooting for Newt to run, so you're casting your lot with the mainstream Republicans rather than the Teas or the Libertarians anyway.

Conservatives really don`t want libertarian policy or they`d have done it already.The low/no government things sound nice but ask most cons if they wants legalized drugs and they revert back(ward) to GOP.

And ask Libertarians if they want social conservatives telling them how to live,who to love,what she can to do with her womb, picking and choosing who gets marriage rights based on bigotry,(and now,where one can stay/eat/sleep,based on bigotry) they`ll say hell no,that`s what republicans are for.

As an official party,they`re a blip,like the Green Party. They don`t run candidates(ok,maybe one or two but you get my drift)or get on many ballots and don`t count for many votes.They certainly aren`t a threat, OR THREATENING, to the union.

For the most part,republicans use Libertarians to hide behind when found in an embarrassing situations.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 59

RE: A Question To All Conservatives and "Libertari... - 5/22/2010 2:49:27 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

Agreed--Republicans use it for the sound bites, but Libertarians are miles from conservative policy.

Of course, today conservatives are miles from conservative policy too.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 5/22/2010 2:51:42 PM >

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 60

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