Truth!?! Truth!?!

Truth!?! Truth!?! (Full Version)

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METOO -> Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 2:02:15 PM)
Assuming truth is “The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth” (to use a rather trite statement), when exactly does one tell the truth? Lifestyle/BDSM lifestyle has an original premise of honesty and, correspondingly, the trustworthiness that is it’s resultant. To profess to such a lifestyle one must swear by this premise. The question, therefore, is when does it begin when either initiating or relating to communication? Does it begin with the first Email/IM? The second? The third? Does it begin with the first phone call? The second? The Third? Does it begin with the first meeting? The second? The Third? When is the “other”, if there is one, given the truth? Is the truth twofold for both the new acquaintance as well as the “old” one? I think you see where I’m going with this. Discussion?

philosophy -> RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 2:24:58 PM)
begs the question......if truth is something that can be reserved for a second or third communication, what are you saying the rest of the time? lies?

MstrTiger -> RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 2:28:38 PM)
What people are doing when they are not telling the truth is knowingly misleading someone and the point at which someone starts knowingly misleading someone is at the point of first contact and that includes providing accurate information on a online profile. I am not really sure where you are going with this discussion, if it is a philosophical discussion on the nature of truth then I suggest you should have posted it on the boards at http://www.big-boards.com/kw/philosophy

MHOO314 -> RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 2:35:41 PM)
I believe there needs to be a distinction between truth and protection--the problem is recognizing the difference--I see posts all the time about fakers, players, etc---yet in the over 200+ submissives I interviewed and the few I met in person--I never had trouble quickly picking out the wannabes--I guess it's the cop that still remains in Me--but I had no problems, because those would push the lies out of the gate---but there is a difference in protecting one's identity--however, there should truths that should start from the very first communications---I would hope---but everyday in vanilla life we see liars and cheats---just because we share this lifestyle does not remove the humaness that remains--honesty is rare in the world, what makes us think it is any different here?

METOO -> RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 2:43:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MstrTiger What people are doing when they are not telling the truth is knowingly misleading someone and the point at which someone starts knowingly misleading someone is at the point of first contact and that includes providing accurate information on a online profile. I am not really sure where you are going with this discussion, if it is a philosophical discussion on the nature of truth then I suggest you should have posted it on the boards at http://www.big-boards.com/kw/philosophy Not really trying to go to any any particular place, but rather wanting the thread to go where it goes. My experience tells me that, in difference to tha basic premise of "lifestyle", the prevailing inclination is to wait until one is either one is "faced" with the so called dilemma, or is caught. Personally, however, I believe one should accept the lifestyle premise of total truth, prior to even attempting a relationship and in particular a lifestyle relationship. The feeling I get however, is quite the contrary

METOO -> RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 2:49:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MHOO314 I never had trouble quickly picking out the wannabes I suspect the "wannabes" are more often the case then those that are real. Seems the "wannabes" want the play or play at their conveinience, rather then the commitment that the life demands

Sub03 -> RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 2:49:05 PM)
I would hope truth is always present from the first message to the last. Is that the case most of the time?? I highly doubt it as I have run into and talked to plenty of liars.

meatcleaver -> RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 2:55:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: METOO Assuming truth is “The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth” (to use a rather trite statement), when exactly does one tell the truth? Lifestyle/BDSM lifestyle has an original premise of honesty and, correspondingly, the trustworthiness that is it’s resultant. To profess to such a lifestyle one must swear by this premise. The question, therefore, is when does it begin when either initiating or relating to communication? Does it begin with the first Email/IM? The second? The third? Does it begin with the first phone call? The second? The Third? Does it begin with the first meeting? The second? The Third? When is the “other”, if there is one, given the truth? Is the truth twofold for both the new acquaintance as well as the “old” one? I think you see where I’m going with this. Discussion? There is no such thing as truth, truth a matter of perception. If you want someone to tell you the truth according to what truth is to you, you need to make sure that person has the same perception of reality as you. An impossibility because they are not you. As for honesty and trustworthiness in the lifestyle, I have to admit I have yet to notice it or at least notice it is more prevelent in the lifestyle than anywhere else.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 2:59:13 PM)
Living with integrity doesn't mean you have to shout it to everyone. At what point, in all those questions, would you find yourself getting interested enough in the person to decide to pursue something more than a casual meeting? At that point is your point. If you're going to enter into a relationship then you owe it so yourself to tell them what's important to you. This way, you don't have a lot invested in it if they are appalled. If they're interested, it gives something to talk about ALL evening. ;-) Fire

IronBear -> RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 3:01:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MstrTiger I am not really sure where you are going with this discussion, if it is a philosophical discussion on the nature of truth then I suggest you should have posted it on the boards at http://www.big-boards.com/kw/philosophy I would have thought Tiger that it was obvious where the OP was going.. The discussion is headed, as I see it, not on the Nature of Truth, but rather on being truthfull with your partner when you are seeking a sub/slave and with said sub/slave...... quote: ORIGINAL: MHOO314 I believe there needs to be a distinction between truth and protection--the problem is recognizing the difference--I see posts all the time about fakers, players, etc---yet in the over 200+ submissives I interviewed and the few I met in person--I never had trouble quickly picking out the wannabes--I guess it's the cop that still remains in Me--but I had no problems, because those would push the lies out of the gate---but there is a difference in protecting one's identity--however, there should truths that should start from the very first communications---I would hope---but everyday in vanilla life we see liars and cheats---just because we share this lifestyle does not remove the humaness that remains--honesty is rare in the world, what makes us think it is any different here? There is a difference between answering a question honestly and not disclosing everything about yourself when questions are not asked. Are you misleading someone because you didn’t give full disclosure? I think not. If they didn’t ask, it may have been that they didn’t want to know. This in turn may have been so that you are not placed between a rock and a hard place…. First meetings for me is to test the waters interaction wise.. I don’t need to know a whole lot about them at first. If there is a second meeting, I will want to learn what I want to know….. One question I will ask at a first meeting though is if they are attached to another in any way shape or form. If so does the other person know and if not I want to meet with both or not at all. There is a fine line between reasonable disclosure and giving away too much personal information… believe me after the first meet if I feel necessary, I will know a great deal about the person. (I know Hathor understands me in this area considering her previous profession ~ grins at her.) I done have the problem as to when I tell Neets or she tells me .. We discuss everything and in these matters there are no secrets..I would never dishonour her by telling her prokies. However there are a number of areas in which she will never ask for she knows that these areas are none of her business and is used to this.. It is safer for her this way.. Essentially, I will tell you as much as I want to tell you. No more no less.. If you can’t live with that and want to know everything, it is time for us to part, regrettable as it may be..

METOO -> RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 3:06:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: METOO Assuming truth is “The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth” (to use a rather trite statement), when exactly does one tell the truth? Lifestyle/BDSM lifestyle has an original premise of honesty and, correspondingly, the trustworthiness that is it’s resultant. To profess to such a lifestyle one must swear by this premise. The question, therefore, is when does it begin when either initiating or relating to communication? Does it begin with the first Email/IM? The second? The third? Does it begin with the first phone call? The second? The Third? Does it begin with the first meeting? The second? The Third? When is the “other”, if there is one, given the truth? Is the truth twofold for both the new acquaintance as well as the “old” one? I think you see where I’m going with this. Discussion? There is no such thing as truth, truth a matter of perception. If you want someone to tell you the truth according to what truth is to you, you need to make sure that person has the same perception of reality as you. An impossibility because they are not you. I cannot agree with that at all, leastwise En toto. If one has an "other", but enters into a a BDSM relationship, that person is being two fold dishonest. One with the "lifestyler" and one with the "other". Perception has nothing to do with it. As for honesty and trustworthiness in the lifestyle, I have to admit I have yet to notice it or at least notice it is more prevelent in the lifestyle than anywhere else. That is true and I have no disagreement You Cannot however disagree that the basic premise of lifestyle is total honest with oneself and with everyone else. It it that honesty that i'm referring to

Tristan -> RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 3:10:09 PM)
Telling "the Truth" is simply saying and acting in such a way as to provide understanding to the person you are interacting with. There is never an objective "truth". Rather, there is just an understanding of someone or something. If you are honestly attempting to communicate your thoughts and intensions, then you are telling "the Truth". Also, your thoughts and intensions need to be in the proper context for someone to understand. Establishing the proper context is usually the most difficult part of communication especially with most personal subjects. Tristan

MHOO314 -> RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 3:11:00 PM)
quote: Essentially, I will tell you as much as I want to tell you. No more no less.. If you can’t live with that and want to know everything, it is time for us to part, regrettable as it may be.. IronBear makes a very very good point---if I tell you as much as I want you to know--is that not being truthful? In a person of honor, there is no reason to pursue---but the problem is when it is not a person of honor and it becomes "the sin of omission".

METOO -> RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 3:13:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tristan Telling "the Truth" is simply saying and acting in such a way as to provide understanding to the person you are interacting with. There is never an objective "truth". Rather, there is just an understanding of someone or something. If you are honestly attempting to communicate your thoughts and intensions, then you are telling "the Truth". Also, your thoughts and intensions need to be in the proper context for someone to understand. Establishing the proper context is usually the most difficult part of communication especially with most personal subjects. Tristan LOL . Does that "context" not involve the truth on both parties part? I can't see how it can be any other way

METOO -> RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 3:17:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MHOO314 quote: Essentially, I will tell you as much as I want to tell you. No more no less.. If you can’t live with that and want to know everything, it is time for us to part, regrettable as it may be.. IronBear makes a very very good point---if I tell you as much as I want you to know--is that not being truthful? In a person of honor, there is no reason to pursue---but the problem is when it is not a person of honor and it becomes "the sin of omission". If I IM/Email a Sub or a dom on this sight and begin a cyber relationship with them and don't tell them about my other, is that and omission or just out and out dishonesty?

Tristan -> RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 3:20:45 PM)
quote: LOL . Does that "context" not involve the truth on both parties part? I can't see how it can be any other way Well, let's just say that if you were to tell a first date every single thing about yourself the first time together, you would probably not be establishing the proper context for most of what you say. You are also not likely to get a second date for the same reason. People need to know how everything fits together in order to understand. Knowing what to say and when to say it is often one of the most difficult parts of communication. Tristan

MHOO314 -> RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 3:24:02 PM)
quote: You Cannot however disagree that the basic premise of lifestyle is total honest with oneself and with everyone else. It it that honesty that i'm referring to That is the basic premise of life itself, why do you think things should be more honest because we are in the "life"? Because we share this "secret"? Humans have a very difficult time being honest with themselves, let alone with others---yes there are many who are---but why do you think that people in the life are more honest---should they be? Yes--are they? I'm not so sure.

Tristan -> RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 3:24:28 PM)
quote: If I IM/Email a Sub or a dom on this sight and begin a cyber relationship with them and don't tell them about my other, is that and omission or just out and out dishonesty? If we are talking specifically about significant others, then I would agree that it would be dishonest not to disclose all immediately. Tristan

MHOO314 -> RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 3:27:27 PM)
quote: If I IM/Email a Sub or a dom on this sight and begin a cyber relationship with them and don't tell them about my other, is that and omission or just out and out dishonesty? IMHO, that is dishonesty, because it is a conscious act and you are leading someone on---that to Me is perpetuating the faker/wannabe beliefs.

tears4him -> RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! (4/8/2006 3:42:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MHOO314 quote: If I IM/Email a Sub or a dom on this sight and begin a cyber relationship with them and don't tell them about my other, is that and omission or just out and out dishonesty? IMHO, that is dishonesty, because it is a conscious act and you are leading someone on---that to Me is perpetuating the faker/wannabe beliefs. I see this as being dishonest to the one you are cybering with, the one you are cheating on, and yourself. Then again, if all parties are aware, there's no dishonesty. But for just cyber relationships, no way of really telling who is or is not really being honest with who. None that I can see.

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