RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (Full Version)

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LaTigresse -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 8:20:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Correct. I had to specifically ask for it.


Yes but specifically what? Not trying to pick on you LaT, you just opened the door to ask a good question is all. If you were to be tested for every possible STD it would run thousands upon thousands of dollars...so when you request to be tested, does anyone know what they test for? Do they test for the Top 5, the Top 10...?


Erin I am sorry I do not remember the number or specifics. I know herpes for sure, as well as HIV. They covered the most common stuff. There is no way a person could do every possible because as you said, it would not be cost effective. I think that for myself, knowing what I know about my personal life and the very few people I have been exposed to in 30 years and the testing that two of those people have had, it was rather a moot point.

If I had had more partners in my life, we are talking 5 in 30 years here, I would likely be much more diligent.




allthatjaz -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 8:26:05 AM)

Saint, I am so sorry you lost your sister. To be given AID's by a cheating boyfriend is tragic. I can understand why you feel the way you do.

I grew up in the shadow of Aids. I remember the fear surrounding the disease and everywhere you looked, the media were pumping it down our throats to be careful, take precautions, get tested if you think your at risk. Even film stars were dieing and it seemed that none of us were untouchable.
Time has moved on, treatment has got better and more infected people are living longer. The media are no longer interested and its no longer the terrifying thing it once was.
They say, though I don't know how true this is, that promiscuity is on the up again. You only have to walk into a BDSM club to see a number of cross contamination scenes.

There are so many things we can do to protect ourselves and so long as we take the time to educate ourselves, we can better protect our precious health.

I also wanted to echo what MsAlisedesade said to you mistoferin. The love of a friend is vital. Just carry on caring




pahunkboy -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 9:35:30 AM)

FR:

I got the series of 3 vaccinations to hep- as a guy in the group home had it.  So I was offered the shots for free.


Look into getting the vac- if you are around a carrier.     But study the issue inside out -- and then decide.

The shots for me were effective- and I never caught hep.




mistoferin -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 9:37:55 AM)

there is no vaccine for Hep C




KatyLied -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 9:44:49 AM)

Erin - I have not read through the entire thread, but is your friend aware that there are dating sites for people with std's?  




mistoferin -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 9:48:08 AM)

Well gosh, I have no idea Katy....but I will tell her. Now there's something I never would have thought of. Makes sense though.




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 9:50:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin


quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
A clear test could mean we are in remission. It could mean that the Hep C virus is laying dormant in certain organs like the liver but not showing up in the bloodstream. 20 years from now we could get the first symptoms.




Wow, that I did not know! I have not seen that come up in any of the research I've done. My friend is currently being tested to see if her infection is "active" as the test she had shows that she has antibodies for it....I'm guessing that is what you are referring to?


Mist, you don't need to worry about that. I'm afraid Maria is mistaken on this one. The screening test for HCV is an antibody test. If you've been exposed to HCV, you will have the antibody and will test positive, even in the unlikely event that you may be in remission.

Now, the good news is, part of the reason Maria's wrong because she sort of has that point backward. A significant percentage of people who contract HCV manage to "clear" the virus on their own during the acute phase of the infection - within the first 6 months or so after exposure. These people will still positive on the screening test, because they'll still have the antibody, but they do not have a chronic, active infection.

So, if you test negative for the antibody, you have not been exposed. If you have reason to believe you may have been recently exposed, a followup test several months later is recommended. If you test positive for the antibody, you have been exposed, and may or may not have an active chronic infection. Liver tests and a viral load test (a test that measures the actual presence and the quantity of the virus in your system) is then indicated to determine the presence and the severity of the chronic infection.




porcelaine -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 9:53:32 AM)

mistoferin,

quote:

Anyway, my questions are...if you met someone that you really could see yourself having a successful relationship with, would you turn them away because of an STD? Would it depend on the STD? If so, where would you draw the line?


There is no line. Everyone has things they're willing to accept and others that go beyond their comfort zone. My answer is and would always be no.

quote:

Lastly, what the heck can I say to my friend that could help her to feel any better about all of this?


I'm sincerely sorry for your friend. I would definitely find a support network and probably attend with her if you can. Having you there and being around people that "get it" from a different perspective is quite a boost in my opinion.

~porcelaine




LanceHughes -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 9:56:27 AM)

I did not read all the way thru.  My profile says, that I am HIV negative. In the ISO (in search of) section I wrote "HIV negative preferred."  I have had a seven-year relationship end with my lover dying in my arms.

ALL sex needs to be safe.  BDSM has little (if any) exchange of bodily fluids.





ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 9:58:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

Fortunately for people who suffer from HEP C there are treatments such as Interferon that has proven success record of eliminating it.


According to what I am reading this is not true, only that it can make the disease go into remission or "hide" in internal organs where it's not detectable.


This is correct. There is no "cure" for HCV. It is treatable and manageable, but not curable at this time. For a certain percentage of people, various versions of interferon-based therapy can reduce the viral load to undetectable levels, and the patient is said to have "cleared" the virus. However, they are still considered to be infected. For all practical purposes, they're probably going to feel cured, because they're usually going to be a hell of a lot healthier, but it's still prudent for them to follow the same precautions as though they still had an active infection.




LadyHibiscus -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 9:59:01 AM)

~FR~

I have several friends with Hep C, which I would never consider an STD. I would not use my "general" toybag with an infected person, they would have to bring their own stuff, but otherwise, hey! That's what precautions are for.

As to someone HIV+, I dunno. I have friends that are, and no big deal. Would I choose an infected person for a partner? Probably not. I have spent a lot of time caring for sick folks, my parents are not in good health, and DAMN I don't want to be a nurse for the rest of my life! So call me a selfish bitch, I wouldn't do more than play with someone with that diagnosis, because I don't want the fallout if he/she develops full blown AIDS.

Herpes. Does the PLANET have herpes? Criminy!

For me the real issue is did the person FULLY DISCLOSE to me before we unzipped the toy bag? If they did, we're cool.




allthatjaz -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 11:22:25 AM)

Thanks for correcting me ThatDamnedPanda. Its good to know that my Hep C negative test really was negative. They say Hep C is more prevalent than HIV, is this true?

Lance, I think that certain things that we do within BDSM can clearly put a person at risk of receiving someone else's bodily fluids.
Pro Dommes or any casual player that play hard using unclean or porous absorbent tools on more than one person. Play piercers that haven't educated themselves about the risks. HIV is a fragile virus that can't survive very long outside the human body but Hep C can survive for up to 4 days. Those bloody vampire gloves are a nightmare. I have seen too many Dommes using them on different people in the same evening.
Most people use common sense but sadly a few don't





ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 11:27:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Anyway, my questions are...if you met someone that you really could see yourself having a successful relationship with, would you turn them away because of an STD? Would it depend on the STD? If so, where would you draw the line?


I'll answer it from the other perspective. As someone with hepatitis C (HCV), I've been rejected many, many times over the years because of it. To the point where it's a major reason I don't even seriously look anymore. Not the only reason, but certainly a major reason.

Sorry, I wish I could give her better news, but it is what it is. It doesn't mean she'll never find anyone, but it does mean things will be more difficult because she's got a smaller pool from which to choose. As you can see in this very thread, there are a lot of people out there who suffer from a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding, and will reject her simply out of ignorance. And, a lot of people who do understand the issue but simply don't want to take the risk - which is perfectly understandable, and i don't blame any of them. But whatever the reasons, it does make it a lot more difficult to find a partner.



quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Lastly, what the heck can I say to my friend that could help her to feel any better about all of this?


How sick is she? How symptomatic? This matters a great deal in  terms of what advice to give her, because people need different things at different stages of the disease. Giving her advice on end-of-life planning does her no good if she's not even symptomatic, whereas giving her advice on diet and exercise is probably bad timing if she's in terminal liver failure.

Having said that - first of all, share with her this piece of advice I got a few days after I was diagnosed. A friend with terminal kidney disease told me, "You're about to find out who your friends are. I know you think you understand what I just said, but trust me, you don't. Yet. But you will, and when you do, don't be afraid to act accordingly. You can't afford not to."

And he was right about everything. I did think I knew what he meant, but - as he said - I did not. However, as time went by, I understood it. And to the extent that I was able to act accordingly, it made a huge difference in my life.

Your friend is going to find out who her friends really are. The friends are the ones who stay, no matter how sick you get. The friends are the ones who genuinely mean it when they say they're there for you, and want to help. People who drift away... well, they weren't friends to begin with, and she's going to need to learn not to mourn the loss of the friendships that never really were. She can't let that bother her, because she can't afford anything that makes her feel less  than worthy. She needs to know who her friends really are, and not be afraid to ask them for help. She's going to need it, at some point. And she's going to need to learn how to live with fewer friends, because if she gets sicker, she will have fewer friends. But the ones she has will be friends indeed.

And, you can tell her about me. 12 years ago, when i was finally diagnosed, I was so sick I couldn't climb stairs without assistance. Not because I was too weak physically, but because I was so mentally fatigued from the illness that I could not solve the incredibly complicated problem of remembering which foot to place on which step, and I would fall down. A liver biopsy showed that I was about halfway to the point of complete liver failure, but they could not determine how quickly the diseases was progressing. I had to wait 3 years for another one, because anything quicker than that would not have showed any statistically reliable deviation, but frankly I didn't expect to live long enough to have another.

But I made enormous changes in my life style, mostly relating to a proper diet, plenty of rest, decreasing my exercise to a moderate, sensible level, and most of all learning how to let stress flow past me instead of hit me head on. The biopsy in 2001 showed no discernible progression of the liver damage. The last biopsy, in 2008, showed no progression since the 1998 biopsy, and even some slight improvement.

So it is possible to make changes in your life that will have a significant effect on the disease. The trick is to identify which aspects she can control, and which aspects she can not - and then control the absolute fuck out of everything she actually can control. There should be nothing - nothing - in her life that she's afraid to cut loose if it's holding her back, and no change she's afraid to make if it's what she needs to do. I won't say I live a normal life - hell, I won't even say the life I live is anywhere near the same time zone as the life I'd like to be living - but it's still a good life, and I find a lot of value in it. I'm hiking, biking, canoeing, or rollerblading almost every day, and while I can't do the distances I used to do, I'm out there doing it and enjoying the hell out of it. I had to let go of some things in order to do these things, but the point is, she still has a lot of options, and she needs to learn to look at her life in terms of what's possible, not what isn't. And make her choices accordingly.

I'll also share the other piece of advice my kidney-disease friend gave me a few days after I was diagnosed -  "Don't let the highs take you too high, and don't let the lows take you too low." I didn't understand that one at first either, but as i learned what he meant and how to apply it, I found it made an enormous difference. She's going to have days where she gets very good news, and she's going to have days where she gets some pretty damned bleak news. She needs to learn how to stay in between, as much as possible. She should enjoy the highs, by all means - celebrate them, and appreciate them for what they are; but don't let them take her too far up, because it's just too devastating when the bad-news days yank her back to the reality of her disease.

And, by the same token, she can't let herself think the world is coming to an end on the days when she gets bad test results or whatever. Tomorrow's another day, and there'll be more tests next month. She needs to stay as objective as possible, at all times, because she is the one in charge of her disease, and she needs to stay in control. It's a marathon, a process of many, many years, and every stumble is only a brief moment in that process. She needs to stay as close to the middle of the road as possible at all times, and whenever she gets pulled to one side or the other, find a way back to the middle as soon as it feels "right" to her. She can't catastrophize, but at the same time, she can't exaggerate the significance of the good news she gets. She will have many crucial decisions to make as she travels this path, and she needs to keep her condition in perspective in order to make informed decisions.

And the last thing i would tell her is, take advantage of support groups but keep them at arm's length. Support networks of other HCV patients were invaluable when I was first diagnosed, because that was how I found the resources i needed to educate myself. But within a couple of years, I had to separate myself completely from all of them, because in my experience they tend to be dominated by people who are obsessed with how sick they are and how terrible they think everything is. You can't be around that shit for long without having it get inside your head, and your friend can't afford to let that shit inside her head. There's no room for all that negativity if you're trying to live a positive life. She'll need to learn how to listen selectively to the advice she gets from other HCV patients - learn how to recognize what has value, and ignore the "woe is me" whining.

Good luck to your friend, and her friends as well. It's not easy, because she'll have to learn how to live a very different life than the one she's been living and probably expected she always would live. It takes a few years to learn all that, but it is learnable. And the sooner she learns it, the better her life will be.




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 11:37:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

Thanks for correcting me ThatDamnedPanda. Its good to know that my Hep C negative test really was negative. They say Hep C is more prevalent than HIV, is this true?


You're quite welcome, but really you didn't have it very far wrong. And yes, I believe HCV is far more common than HIV. If I recall correctly, there are as many people infected with HCV in the United States alone as there are people infected with HIV worldwide. About 1% of the American population has it, and roughly half of them don't even know it. Yet.



quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
Lance, I think that certain things that we do within BDSM can clearly put a person at risk of receiving someone else's bodily fluids.
Pro Dommes or any casual player that play hard using unclean or porous absorbent tools on more than one person. Play piercers that haven't educated themselves about the risks. HIV is a fragile virus that can't survive very long outside the human body but Hep C can survive for up to 4 days. Those bloody vampire gloves are a nightmare. I have seen too many Dommes using them on different people in the same evening.
Most people use common sense but sadly a few don't


It's amazing to me, how many people are undereducated or miseducated about this illness. I've seen incredibly bad advice given on these boards alone - "soap and water disinfect everything, just give 'em a good wash and everything will be fine;" "sunlight disinfects, so if you leave your toys outside for a day, they'll be safe" - and it boggles my mind how much risk people are willing to expose themselves or their partners to simply because they don't know how to do simple research, or care enough to do it. This disease is extremely hard to catch if you take basic precautions, but extremely easy if you don't. And once you've got it, you've fucking got it. You don't get a second chance to be smart.




mistoferin -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 11:51:14 AM)

Wow, thank you for that wealth of information....and for sharing it so openly! Right now she has no symptoms, as I said, she was tested because she was being prescribed a medication that is hard on the liver so they did liver testing before she could take that drug (which obviously she can't take now). They are running more sophisticated tests now that will tell her whether or not she her infection is active.




pahunkboy -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 12:02:58 PM)

If I recall- the vax tho- offers some protection.

I thought long and hard.  This was the 90s-- the shots - 3- over 6 months cost $200 back then.




LadyPact -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 12:11:18 PM)

quote:



ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Lastly, what the heck can I say to my friend that could help her to feel any better about all of this?


I actually forgot to address this earlier.  While I can't possibly imagine that I could bring better information to this thread than Panda has already done, there is something that I would like to add.

Some time back, I was in the position of having an acquaintance who basically was in a situation that it was time to go get the tests done.  As people have often remarked on this thread, not everyone knows what they have until they find out that they have it.  (If they honestly did know prior, I'd like to make a nomination for the Academy Award.)  Seriously, that person was devastated.  They felt dirty and had a terrible feeling like no one would ever want to touch them again, especially sexually.  This person felt like a leper.  Of course, this was all in the shock of the moment.

I think it would be important to tell you friend that, while for some it might close the door, that's not a universal thing.  Even the responses on this thread have shown that.  It's not automatically a sentence that says she is going to be alone and unwanted for the rest of her life.  I think your friend could probably use to hear that right about now.





ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 12:34:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Some time back, I was in the position of having an acquaintance who basically was in a situation that it was time to go get the tests done.  As people have often remarked on this thread, not everyone knows what they have until they find out that they have it.  (If they honestly did know prior, I'd like to make a nomination for the Academy Award.)  Seriously, that person was devastated.  They felt dirty and had a terrible feeling like no one would ever want to touch them again, especially sexually.  This person felt like a leper.  Of course, this was all in the shock of the moment.


Yes, that's a very good point. It's been so long, I'd almost forgotten that. But yes, Erin, your friend will probably go through a period where she feels like a toxic waste receptacle. That's natural, because your entire self-perception is completely turned upside down, and you don't trust anything you thought you knew about yourself. But it passes, as you become more and more aware that in most ways you're really the same person you always were.



quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I think it would be important to tell you friend that, while for some it might close the door, that's not a universal thing.  Even the responses on this thread have shown that.  It's not automatically a sentence that says she is going to be alone and unwanted for the rest of her life.  I think your friend could probably use to hear that right about now.


Yeah, that'd be the more balanced message to send. As i said, I've been rejected many times because of my health, but I've met far more women who did not reject me. It just means the pool is going to be smaller. It's kind of like the job market today. Unemployment is about 10%, and the job market is far worse than it's been in almost 30 years. It's much, much more  difficult to find a job, because there are just far fewer jobs from which to choose. I've been self-employed for a year and a half, and for various reasons a couple of months ago I decided to start looking for a job. Within the space of about 3, maybe 3 and a half weeks, I found 3 jobs. One of them is, admittedly, temporary, but of the 2 permanent jobs I found, either would have been perfectly fine places to work - and the point is, even with the smaller pool, I had no trouble finding something. All i had to do was pick which of the 3 I wanted.

It'll probably be the same with your friend. She won't find as many potential partners, but she'll still find some, and one is all she needs. The thing she needs to remember - in this, and all other issues relating to her disease - is that she still has options. They may be different options than she once had, and different than she was hoping to have, but she will still have  options, and she'll need to reorient her way of thinking to meet the new reality. She'll need to learn how to always think in terms of options and opportunities, not obstacles and limitations. If options and opportunities  are what you look for first, those will usually be the first things you notice, right?




mistoferin -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 12:45:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

If I recall- the vax tho- offers some protection.



The Hepatitis A and Hepatitis B vaccines do not offer any protection against Hepatitis C or E.




mistoferin -> RE: Would you close the door on a potential partner because of an STD? (5/24/2010 12:48:35 PM)

Thank you LadyPact...and again ThatDamnedPanda, thank you too! This thread has been very informative and hopefully I'm not the only one that has learned a thing or two from it.




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