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When it takes too much - 4/9/2006 7:55:40 AM   
MHOO314


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This is actually the reverse of a thread Level started about when Dominants go too vanilla ( I am paraphrasing horribly I am sure)--and its posted in the Mistress section, only because I am one but as always My esteemed Doms input is valuable as well--
 
We Dominants assume the responsibility for caring/shaping/nurturing our submissives, whether its helping break a bad habit or pushing the proverbial threshold envelope--but what happens when it takes too much--when it starts to change the Dominants approach to that behavior (i.e--draining, irritating, annoying, tiring...)--We are after all human too--We have emotional, psychological, mental limitations.
 
When it just takes too much time, attention, focus, money whatever--what happens? How have you handled it, what have you done about it and...
 
I am curious at what point it becomes a "deal breaker"?

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SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor

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RE: When it takes too much - 4/9/2006 8:05:28 AM   
thetammyjo


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When the negative outweights the positive, its time to evaluate things.

Frankly I don't personally buy into the "dominant takes care of everything for submissive" model of relationship. When you get into the mindset I think it's very easy to forget what you need and desire and to let yourself become more of a parent or a servant to the other person.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to MHOO314)
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RE: When it takes too much - 4/9/2006 10:29:50 AM   
Misstoyou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Frankly I don't personally buy into the "dominant takes care of everything for submissive" model of relationship.



I echo that. I choose submissives that are fully functioning human beings, and I allow and encourage them to stay that way.

_____________________________

~ Miss Marie

a.k.a. "mean Lady"


(in reply to thetammyjo)
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RE: When it takes too much - 4/9/2006 10:37:21 AM   
DiannaVesta


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Misstoyou

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Frankly I don't personally buy into the "dominant takes care of everything for submissive" model of relationship.



I echo that. I choose submissives that are fully functioning human beings, and I allow and encourage them to stay that way.



Ditto. I also have no patience for BS nor would I even entertain having a wet rag around or someone I have to stay on top of all the time. I would be showing him the door.


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RE: When it takes too much - 4/9/2006 12:46:08 PM   
TeeGO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta

quote:

ORIGINAL: Misstoyou

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Frankly I don't personally buy into the "dominant takes care of everything for submissive" model of relationship.



I echo that. I choose submissives that are fully functioning human beings, and I allow and encourage them to stay that way.



Ditto. I also have no patience for BS nor would I even entertain having a wet rag around or someone I have to stay on top of all the time. I would be showing him the door.


I was wondering if you fine Ladies could explain to me the difference between what your saying and the idea of total control?  You want self sufficient, can take care of themselves types, but also you want total control?

From my point of view, giving up control is a powerful, desired thing.  But the last thing I would want would be to be a burden.  Lifting a burden is my goal. 

Are these ideas not tied together and where is the line drawn?

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RE: When it takes too much - 4/9/2006 2:22:57 PM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TeeGO

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta

quote:

ORIGINAL: Misstoyou

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Frankly I don't personally buy into the "dominant takes care of everything for submissive" model of relationship.



I echo that. I choose submissives that are fully functioning human beings, and I allow and encourage them to stay that way.



Ditto. I also have no patience for BS nor would I even entertain having a wet rag around or someone I have to stay on top of all the time. I would be showing him the door.


I was wondering if you fine Ladies could explain to me the difference between what your saying and the idea of total control? You want self sufficient, can take care of themselves types, but also you want total control?

From my point of view, giving up control is a powerful, desired thing. But the last thing I would want would be to be a burden. Lifting a burden is my goal.

Are these ideas not tied together and where is the line drawn?


I don't want "total control" because I do not think it is possible. Sorry, can't control the weather, can't control all of my own health, why would I think I could have "total control" over another person?

Aside from that, I have no interest in micromanaging because I see it as a strictly sub-dom relationship. That can be fun for short term but its very tiring for me long-term.

I'm interested in slave-owner relationships and in the models that I use for that the slave serves, he is not controlled so much as given guidelines of what good service is and the opportunities to serve. The slave has rules to follow but in general he cares for and serves the owner... of course the owner should also care for him and provide guidance.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to TeeGO)
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RE: When it takes too much - 4/9/2006 3:04:38 PM   
TeeGO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I don't want "total control" because I do not think it is possible. Sorry, can't control the weather, can't control all of my own health, why would I think I could have "total control" over another person?

Aside from that, I have no interest in micromanaging because I see it as a strictly sub-dom relationship. That can be fun for short term but its very tiring for me long-term.

I'm interested in slave-owner relationships and in the models that I use for that the slave serves, he is not controlled so much as given guidelines of what good service is and the opportunities to serve. The slave has rules to follow but in general he cares for and serves the owner... of course the owner should also care for him and provide guidance.


I agree that "Total Control" is impossible. It's an often used term, but it's meaning is in a relative sense in this case. In either case you have explained how you run things in your dynamic and I can see the clear distinction between control and self-sufficiency.

Without trying to presume too much, but I guess I am anyway, the impressions I get from GDV and MTY are that they do want a sense of control. I'm interested to know the distinction between that type of control and a subs self-sufficiency. This is an honest inquiry, I'm trying to understand. It's probably right in front of my nose and I'm just missing it.

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RE: When it takes too much - 4/9/2006 3:21:11 PM   
ShiftedJewel


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When you have tried everything you can think of to make them happy and they still want more... it's time to let go. I had one that was never really happy here... we bought him stuff that he swore would keep him satisfied (I know.. dumb move.. ) and then there would be something else that once again.. would make him soooo happy and satisfied.... $1400 dollars in one month is what made it a deal breaker. If my companionship, OUR companionship and everything else we offer isn't enough... then they don't belong here.
 
Don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with spoiling our girl, but in the same respect, she spoils us terribly with her affection and attention to details. I just refuse to get involved with another money pit... we learned our lesson.
 
quote:

I was wondering if you fine Ladies could explain to me the difference between what your saying and the idea of total control?  You want self sufficient, can take care of themselves types, but also you want total control? 


I don't want total control, I just want control of the things that are within my capability of control... like what they wear, when and where they sleep, are they eating properly, are they seeing to it that they are not doing anything that can cause them to become ill.... that sort of thing... well, that and when playing of course...lol

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RE: When it takes too much - 4/9/2006 7:11:57 PM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TeeGO


quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I don't want "total control" because I do not think it is possible. Sorry, can't control the weather, can't control all of my own health, why would I think I could have "total control" over another person?

Aside from that, I have no interest in micromanaging because I see it as a strictly sub-dom relationship. That can be fun for short term but its very tiring for me long-term.

I'm interested in slave-owner relationships and in the models that I use for that the slave serves, he is not controlled so much as given guidelines of what good service is and the opportunities to serve. The slave has rules to follow but in general he cares for and serves the owner... of course the owner should also care for him and provide guidance.


I agree that "Total Control" is impossible. It's an often used term, but it's meaning is in a relative sense in this case. In either case you have explained how you run things in your dynamic and I can see the clear distinction between control and self-sufficiency.

Without trying to presume too much, but I guess I am anyway, the impressions I get from GDV and MTY are that they do want a sense of control. I'm interested to know the distinction between that type of control and a subs self-sufficiency. This is an honest inquiry, I'm trying to understand. It's probably right in front of my nose and I'm just missing it.



I think how its put into action will vary from person to person and relationship to relationship. I looked at the next response from ShiftedJewel and we wouldn't control the same things in our slaves' lives but we'd each (hopefully) have the level of authority we desired and could maintain.

I think having something you can maintain and stick with is very very important. I learned the hard way that trying to control more, have more rituals, and more rules that I really wanted left me feeling weak and tired.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to TeeGO)
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RE: When it takes too much - 4/9/2006 9:42:30 PM   
Misstoyou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TeeGO

I was wondering if you fine Ladies could explain to me the difference between what your saying and the idea of total control?



Actually, TeeGO, as I tell my applicants, what I require from my submissive is abject obedience and total vulnerability , not "total control."

_____________________________

~ Miss Marie

a.k.a. "mean Lady"


(in reply to TeeGO)
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RE: When it takes too much - 4/10/2006 3:37:34 AM   
MsSonnetMarwood


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quote:

When you have tried everything you can think of to make them happy and they still want more... it's time to let go.


I think this is a mistake that we as human beings make from time to time - trying to take responsibility for someone else's happiness.  

The ability to be content and at peace with one's life (my definition of what it means to be "happy") is something that has to come from within.    So many search for happiness IN someone else or in some material thing is a mentality that is very prevalent...."I would be happy if I was in this kind of relationship" or "I would be happy if I just had that sports car".   Not surprisingly it never really works because it is hanging one's happiness on something that just isn't going to give it.   Certainly, we find pleasure in spending time with a particular person or the roar of an engine - but to abdicate personal responsibility to one's own self-fulfillment to an outside force is a dodging of personal responsibility.

And to think we can somehow magickally bestow happiness on another is taking on more than a person can be responsible for.  Conversely, being IN certain situations can certainly make us unhappy - hopefully it acts as a catalyst for us to make changes to correct that, whatever those changes may be.

This doesn't mean that you don't have to extend caring/guidance/etc to another - it just means that if that person isn't ultimately content within themselves, it doesn't matter how much you care about them, it isn't going to make them happy.

It's an interesting subject - I've been in the situation more than once when someone pinned all their hopes and dreams on me (entirely prematurely - within a short period of time of meeting me), they clung so tightly to me, the silent demand for more attention/affection than I was able to give...that the effect it had was that of suffocation, and I had to simply end it. 

< Message edited by MsSonnetMarwood -- 4/10/2006 3:44:38 AM >


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Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
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RE: When it takes too much - 4/10/2006 5:04:53 AM   
MHOO314


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Very wise words MsSonnetMarwood---i call it the search for "there"---that elusive plasce that everyone seems drive to get to. "if I do this, then I will be there, if I get that then I will be there>--when the "there" is an imaginary place of acceptance, that people feel resides out side themselves with validation by others---when indeed it MUST come from inside one's self with only the validation of happiness of and in one's self.
 
When that acceptance of self is not there, it becomes almost impossible to freely and openly give to another--let alone accept another---for there are always those nagging statements looming in the background--
 
I believe this is the main element in a solid D/s, M/s relationship---a solid sense of self and a happiness with what "self" is and represents--in fact it is the main element in any stable relationship--or should be, IMHO.

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor


(in reply to MsSonnetMarwood)
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RE: When it takes too much - 4/10/2006 6:22:42 AM   
Proprietrix


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From: Ohio/West Virginia
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quote:

I was wondering if you fine Ladies could explain to me the difference between what your saying and the idea of total control?  You want self sufficient, can take care of themselves types, but also you want total control?
From my point of view, giving up control is a powerful, desired thing.  But the last thing I would want would be to be a burden.  Lifting a burden is my goal. 
Are these ideas not tied together and where is the line drawn?


I see many times in this lifestyle the blurring between a submissive giving up control and a submissive pleasing their Dominant. To me, those are two entirely different concepts. I can please my boss at work and never give him control over me. I can do things to please my elderly parents, but they no longer have control over my life. When it comes to a slave/submissive pleasing me, it has very little to do with level of control. For some Dominants however, pleasure comes in control. It might bring a Domme extreme pleasure for her slave to ask permission for this, that, or the other.

I have what I call my "even an animal" analogy, that I apply to many things in life, including power exchange. As an example: When I talked to my son about the use of condoms to prevent teenage pregnancy, I told him "Even an animal has the sense to build a nest before laying eggs." When it comes to my slaves, I don't want to micromanage their bathroom habits. Even an animal has the sense to empty its bladder. It is definitely a burden if I have to monitor one's every bodily function and movement. That might give me a higher level of control, but it really depletes the enjoyment.

All Dominants are different in what type of control they want, and most define total control differently. Some may not find it a burden at all, but rather exillerating, to have power over their submissive's bowels. Some only want power over their submissive's bladder. Some their anus. Some their penis. Some their wallet. Some their religion. Some their emotions. Some their (insert item here).

There is a far cry difference in a a Victorian or Edwardian household where the Dominant would never even consider removing her clothing in the presence of her slaves, or vice versa, and a married D/s couple in which the Dominant sleeps in the same bed as her submissive nightly. Some Dominants' power exchange reflects a parent/child model. Some reflect a slave/owner model. Some apprentice/teacher. Some pet/owner. Some Godess/worshipper. Some are based on mutual romantic love. Some are based on kinks.

Even the same Dominant may have different levels of control for her different slaves/subs. She may want a very restrictive control over her 1st/alpha/personal, but really have no concern at all as to the "off-time" dealings of her house servant.

The bottom line is that you're not going to be able to please any/every Domme with one set of rules. That's why it's so important to get to know a particular Domme and learn what her particular wants, needs, and desires are.

For me personally, I want slaves who are adult, functional, and yes, self-sufficient. My maternal needs are fulfilled via parenting my child. If I wanted another child, I'd have one. I don't want to feel like a nurse maid who is caring for a convalescent, nor a surrogate mother for a guy who never grew up. I want slaves who can take initiative, are intrinsicly motivated, and perceptive enough to pick-up on things without having to be told each and every time.

I think the best policy is to know the one you're with (or striving to be with).

(in reply to TeeGO)
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RE: When it takes too much - 4/10/2006 12:30:52 PM   
TeeGO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Misstoyou

quote:

ORIGINAL: TeeGO

I was wondering if you fine Ladies could explain to me the difference between what your saying and the idea of total control?



Actually, TeeGO, as I tell my applicants, what I require from my submissive is abject obedience and total vulnerability , not "total control."

Very nice. Abject obedience and total vulnerability = total control when you want it. Yes, I like the way you put that. I think that connects the dots between the way thetammyjo and the way ShiftedJewel run their lives, and surely answers my question.

In a sense it is total control, it's just a more complete idea. I can see from the Domme side when one says "total control" the first thought is micromanaging, and yes that is too much work and not desirable. The emotion I bring with that phrase is stress. Not a good way to make an impression. The sub should be there to make the Domme's life easier, not more difficult.

Now from the sub side total control means (at least as I see it) that my will is overridden by the Domme's will. What she says, goes. In no way did I ever view it as I cannot think or do anything without the Domme's input. So my using the phrase "total control" meant something completely different from the way you see it.

Communication and understanding is everything. If I use the phrase "abject obedience and total vulnerability" instead of "total control", the first thought in Domme's head would be a pleasant thought rather than stress. And that would be good for me. Thank you.

(in reply to Misstoyou)
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RE: When it takes too much - 4/10/2006 7:29:47 PM   
Cloudz


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Great Question MH,

There are lots of deal breakers for me, my favorites include "tell me what you are going to do to me" and "I want you to do this and this and this to me." and my all time favorite "I will do ANYTHING for you Mistess."

PUH LEEZE, and these happen in the first 5 minutes of a conversation. Seriously, if you had a personality quirk or trait that I simply could not handle, I should figure that out early on and not continue the pursuit. If there is something that is happening that I find irritating to the point of distraction then we will discuss it immediately and frequently. If it cannot or will not be changed...then I see no point in engaging in a relationship that causes at minimum irritation on my part...and probably frustration on his.

_____________________________

Enjoy the Journey,
~Cloudz

"Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain."


(in reply to MHOO314)
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RE: When it takes too much - 4/10/2006 8:01:11 PM   
TexasMaam


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Oh hell ouch.

Do you always post directly to whatever issue I'm wrestling with at the time? *sigh* (That was tongue in cheek but not really.)

<stares at her crystal ball and sees:  nothing but a crystal ball.

Grappling with the 'when it just takes too much is it time to cut him loose?' blues.

TexasMaam




(in reply to MHOO314)
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RE: When it takes too much - 4/10/2006 8:02:49 PM   
TexasMaam


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I think the deal breaker is when the down time outweighs the upside.

Where DID I put that damn upside downside scale, anyway?

TexasMaam

(in reply to MHOO314)
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