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RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 8:01:22 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

........I apologize for my previous lack of understanding. After all, I was a bit too concerned about this "stress on job" and "not being alone" thing. ....


impressive. It reflects well that you can apologize in such a postive manner. I will say that it's not important to me how you see our relationship but non-the less it does impress me that you can remove your own bias and open your mind to other perspectives.

To me openmindedness is not accepting others do it differently. But re-evaluatig ones' own opinions in the face of different views. but, even if one does re-evaluate doesn't mean one changes their view. I believe it is important to ones growth to challenge their own opinions as accurate. Looking for their own flaws so to speak through the eyes of others. I found your questions to be rather interesting and not as offensive as some would think. Your questions caused me to first rationalize to myself why it works between the three of us in order to answer your questions in the second place. Thank you the dialogue we both benefited.


quote:


You know what. I also sometimes tend to know better than some people what is better for them. So I persuade them to do something, and then they enjoy it even more than they would enjoy doing their usual stuff. I do it outside of formal M/s. But, the principle is the same.



I can relate to this. But it is a balancing act and I find when I venture outside of my own practical experiences relating to the issues I begin to get into shaky ground. Though I consider for the most part you asked some pertinent questions... I do find that your opinions out stretched your admitted experiences and knowledge.

As the Master to my two girls.... it is without doubt that I tend to know what is better for them in most cases. However, with regards to Kyra's mental health. That was outside of my experiences for the most part. I am not fixing her and want to make clear for the sake of others that might read this thread, that what I am doing with Kyra is not fixing her or making her better. She had therapists with the training and skills that was critical in redirecting her from a destructive path that she was on and getting her moving on a more constructive path. Without question, I don't believe that I hold the skills or training to have achieve this for her in the situation she was in. I would also caution others that they don't out stretch themselves either. With Kyra, I am helping to keep her a path that others of far more knowledge and skill help get her on.



_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 8:03:22 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		FR ... as I actually wanted to avoid this whole convoluted debate for the most part.

quote:

I think it [slavery] is a really awful term (although I admit it is hot) to use for what we use it for, which is someone who surrenders more deeply than a submissive.


I tend to agree this and with almost all that you wrote in your OP as it pertains to my way of seeing the world.

But at the same time, if it works for some, who are we to knock it? Isn't the essential for people to find happiness in their dynamics?

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 8:04:37 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		and for you subversive individuals that believe Kyra should be allowed to knit in public... well... all I can say is that it's time for a good ole fashion yarn burning party!!!!!!!

I will squash this rebellion!!!!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 8:56:27 AM   
Silence8


Posts: 833
Joined: 11/2/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

FR ... as I actually wanted to avoid this whole convoluted debate for the most part.

quote:

I think it [slavery] is a really awful term (although I admit it is hot) to use for what we use it for, which is someone who surrenders more deeply than a submissive.


I tend to agree this and with almost all that you wrote in your OP as it pertains to my way of seeing the world.

But at the same time, if it works for some, who are we to knock it? Isn't the essential for people to find happiness in their dynamics?

- LA


The key is understanding. One would rightly be wary of any social concept that demands its exclusion from reflection. It's perhaps ironic that sex, for many, is, well, untouchable.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 8:59:52 AM   
Silence8


Posts: 833
Joined: 11/2/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2


and i was thinking of nuns who have no possessions of any sort and dedicate themselves to faith all of their lives.  im sure there are moments of extreme struggle and suffering inside.





You obviously haven't read 'Justine'




(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 9:00:59 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		There is a long time ago that I gave up trying to understand why people think differently than me. That doesn't mean that I don't do the initial exercise of trying to see things from their point of view, but in the end, I have much more important things to reflect upon than to try to figure out why certain people feel the need to see the world in such a way.

Understanding and acceptance don't need to go hand in hand.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Silence8)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 9:03:03 AM   
Silence8


Posts: 833
Joined: 11/2/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

FR ... as I actually wanted to avoid this whole convoluted debate for the most part.

quote:

I think it [slavery] is a really awful term (although I admit it is hot) to use for what we use it for, which is someone who surrenders more deeply than a submissive.


I tend to agree this and with almost all that you wrote in your OP as it pertains to my way of seeing the world.

But at the same time, if it works for some, who are we to knock it? Isn't the essential for people to find happiness in their dynamics?

- LA


Oh, and all thought is convoluted. You might want actually to go back and read the originator of your signature line, and try to tell me it isn't otherwise.

In other words, don't knock it until you try it.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 9:06:06 AM   
Silence8


Posts: 833
Joined: 11/2/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

There is a long time ago that I gave up trying to understand why people think differently than me. That doesn't mean that I don't do the initial exercise of trying to see things from their point of view, but in the end, I have much more important things to reflect upon than to try to figure out why certain people feel the need to see the world in such a way.

Understanding and acceptance don't need to go hand in hand.

- LA


There is a sort of truth here.

'Fear thy neighbor as thyself!'

You ever consider how the Golden Rule doesn't really work for sadomasochists?

And yet, Christianity is perhaps the most sadomasochistic religion in existence...

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 9:11:22 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

FR ... as I actually wanted to avoid this whole convoluted debate for the most part.

quote:

I think it [slavery] is a really awful term (although I admit it is hot) to use for what we use it for, which is someone who surrenders more deeply than a submissive.


I tend to agree this and with almost all that you wrote in your OP as it pertains to my way of seeing the world.

But at the same time, if it works for some, who are we to knock it? Isn't the essential for people to find happiness in their dynamics?

- LA


Oh, and all thought is convoluted. You might want actually to go back and read the originator of your signature line, and try to tell me it isn't otherwise.

In other words, don't knock it until you try it.


I can't go back and read the originator of the quote in my signature line as Socrates didn't write any books. Perhaps you meant Plato's writings about Socrates? What makes you think I haven't read them? Or for that matter, that I haven't tried some of the things I don't understand?

You are just chock full of assumptions, aren't you young man. Why don't you walk away from the keyboard and reflect on how being so presumptuous makes you look like in the eyes of the world.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Silence8)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 9:17:37 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

and for you subversive individuals that believe Kyra should be allowed to knit in public... well... all I can say is that it's time for a good ole fashion yarn burning party!!!!!!!

I will squash this rebellion!!!!


VIVA LA REVOLUTION

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 9:19:26 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Oh, and I am going to be so stoked if you guys push this thread past ten pages on its first day. This is like old times.


I won!

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 10:01:56 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

Do you think people come here in the spirit of helpful advice? I know when I joined I wanted to hear what folks had to say. I know how to google if I need something more straight forward.

There are enormous amounts of nutbars on our planet and there is no shortage here.

One person's helpful advice is another's narrow minded Newtonian, often overly verbose self-righteous densed up poo poo. I think it is pretty funny to expect to come here to get trustworthy information although there actually seems to be plenty of it among all the slinging of so-called ideas, opinion and plain boring rants etc.

Some of the people that present themselves as helpful, um, nope, I would not suggest listening to the utterage out of their gobs. C'est moi darling.


Hi heartcream,

Like you, I come here with an interest in what others have to say, rather than looking for some specific advice that I can use for myself.  However, what I've taken away from coming to CM as well as other message boards, is an expanded overall "big picture" view - at relationships, individual choices, and communicating styles.  Whether I emphatically agree, vehemently disagree, or anything in between, regarding what I am reading, the entire experience in the long run has brought me to expand my own thinking, and improve on the way I might present myself - both here and offline.

So I do believe dialogue - even the eye rolling, frustrating kind - is a good thing.  We are influenced, greatly or subtly, on what we involve ourselves in, or what we witness around us.  Kyra could have responded to SN in frustration, and defensively, but she did not, and her message was received not only by SN but countless others who may be reading, which very likely influenced their way of thinking.  Personally speaking, Kyra's communication style has influenced my own to a degree, in that she impresses me with the way she approaches being challenged by being informative, rather than defensive.  Something I have often had trouble with.

So while SN's view of an M/s relationship may have expanded a bit because of Kyra's & KoM's postings here, my view of my own communication style has continued to expand, and who knows how others were affected as well.

And none of this would have come about if Michael hadn't exclaimed from the mountain top that slavery is bullshit.

So it's all good in the end, ya know?


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to heartcream)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 10:22:31 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

and for you subversive individuals that believe Kyra should be allowed to knit in public... well... all I can say is that it's time for a good ole fashion yarn burning party!!!!!!!

I will squash this rebellion!!!!


*starts a cm collection for yarn*

Just out of curiousity, what's the reasoning behind the public display of knitting? It makes ya look goofy?



_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 11:17:13 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

So it's all good in the end, ya know?



So true on SO many levels!!!!

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 11:34:15 AM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

and for you subversive individuals that believe Kyra should be allowed to knit in public... well... all I can say is that it's time for a good ole fashion yarn burning party!!!!!!!

I will squash this rebellion!!!!


I know at least one Domme who would battle you to the death on this issue.

_____________________________

"cooking is my kink"

Collared June 19, 2008
(uncollared 12/21/09 with his death. RIP my Santa)

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 11:35:02 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Oh, and I am going to be so stoked if you guys push this thread past ten pages on its first day. This is like old times.


I won!


*Give Michael a Good Dommie Cookie and a pat on the head* ;-)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 11:36:55 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael


quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

and for you subversive individuals that believe Kyra should be allowed to knit in public... well... all I can say is that it's time for a good ole fashion yarn burning party!!!!!!!

I will squash this rebellion!!!!








Down with all doms who want to burn yarn!!!! We shall fight them on the streets, we shall fight them in the houses, we shall fight them in the yarn shops. We shall never surrender!


(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 11:51:04 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

this is not a dig in any direction whatsover, just im curious.  how is a dominant qualified to comment on what a submissive or slave feels when owned or enslaved.  since a dominant is dominant im assuming they have no actual submissive tendencies sufficient to appreciate the emotional and psychological bond a slave or sub feels - and i dont give a toss about titles, they simply serve the purpose of shorthand descriptives.


I would beg to differ. IMO, an aware, connected Keeper -will- have the capacity to both appreciate and understand the emotional and psychological bond that the Kept have... and will be able to understand, as well, the day-to-day fluctuations and ongoing ups and downs that go along with keeping even the most dedicated individual. One does not have to -be- dominant to understand dominance... and one does not have to -be- submissive to understand the submissive mindset. In fact, one must understand the mindset in order to know oneself well enough to realize that one is not fulfilled as one or the other (or that one is fulfilled with some combination of the two).

In the same way, I would anticipate that a kept individual would both appreciate and understand the nature of the one who does the Keeping -- otherwise, it would be far too easy to subject oneself to relationships where the one doing the Keeping is unsuited to the task... where there is plenty of 'bark' but no 'bite', so to speak.

Calla

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 11:58:43 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline 		CallaFirestormBW,

quote:

I would beg to differ. IMO, an aware, connected Keeper -will- have the capacity to both appreciate and understand the emotional and psychological bond that the Kept have...


He understands because he's fully invested in the relationship.

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/29/2010 12:04:02 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Just out of curiousity, what's the reasoning behind the public display of knitting? It makes ya look goofy?




*chuckles* I don't rightly recall how it occurred. But it was a while back when the three of us where having alittle playful teasing and banter about Kyra taking up knitting and becoming an old lady. I very flippenly said she couldn't knit in public as part of the fun that we where having at the time I have since never thought to reverse the decision and she actually has never ask permission to knit in public. Now after this thread... I am thinking that I will not reverse the decision if she even asks... just because... it's fun!

Some decisions one makes is going to have deep implications and the much thought go into such decision. Then there is those decisions that are whims with an intent of playfulness and fun.

So... Burn the yarn.... burn baby burn!



_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 200
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