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What is culture? - 5/29/2010 4:13:43 AM

LillyoftheVally

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It is something I have been thinking about since the election. One of the big issues was immigration and people 'coming over here and not respecting our culture' it made me wonder what English or British culture is, and I am still not sure.

I am not looking for dictionary definitions but personal ones, what do you think culture is? Where does it come from? What would you describe as cultural in the area/country you live in?

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RE: What is culture? - 5/29/2010 4:55:01 AM

LadyAngelika

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All I know is that English cuisine got so much better since all this immigration ;-)

In all honesty, I'm not sure what your model is. I just finished writing on another thread to Northern Gent that the US is a melting pot society. When you move there, you become an American. The whole social structure of the society is to adopt the American way of life. Canada however is a mosaic which follows the principle that we become richer by having immigrants bring their cultural diversity to our country for us to learn from and integrate. I cannot speak about other nations on this matter as I have no informed myself as to their immigrant integration philosophies.

Since Canada still maintains very strong ties with Britain even though it's no longer a colony (we are still part of your commonwealth and still have your bloody Queen on our money) I figured we might have been influenced by your model of immigration integration philosophies. Then again, I'm thinking about it now and this is probably unlikely as Canada is a country built on immigration, ergo the philosophy could not stem from you.

- LA

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RE: What is culture? - 5/29/2010 5:28:30 AM

pahunkboy

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With in the US there is a variation of what this is.

Rural PA-- is a different life then Chicagoland. That doesn't mean one is better- just a variation. Aint it great that we may choose?

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RE: What is culture? - 5/29/2010 5:32:02 AM

Aneirin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

It is something I have been thinking about since the election. One of the big issues was immigration and people 'coming over here and not respecting our culture' it made me wonder what English or British culture is, and I am still not sure.

I am not looking for dictionary definitions but personal ones, what do you think culture is? Where does it come from? What would you describe as cultural in the area/country you live in?

Yeah, I have been wondering about that myself, what culture do we have that some people believe immigrants are disrupting, when it could be we actually have no culture to speak of and what the immigrants are bringing in looks better than what we have, so as it looks better, it is assumed it is ruining ours.

So what is British culture, well from my own perspective, the British Pub, sport, perhaps May day and the occaisional summer fair. The summer fair and mayday being the type of events where one might see local sports played, and things like the morris, but rarely these days the traditional mayday pole dance or other things deemed too pagan or suggestive.

The thing is, I believe what culture we might have had, has been largely dumbed down or destroyed, by church and government alike, those who seek to control so not as to offend others. Hell, a few years ago flag waving was frowned upon, anyone proud of the Union Jack and choosing to fly it was though of as a racist, or flying the flag to offend immigrants.One city I lived in even celebrated French independance day, flag waving and anything french welcomed, but come St Georges day, all essences of English were banned, no flag flying as it was thought it would offend the immigrants.

I believe the Scots, Irish and Welsh have some culture, perhaps the Cornish too, but the English being the most conquered, what is there that does not involve beer ?

I hear at one time also the last government was trying to make people proud of Britain, instill Britishness, but seeing as we have lost most of it, first they have to find out what it is, because damned if we know.

The British have as a culture been trashed, so to me what the immigrants bring in, I love it and welcome it, especially the Asians and Afro Carribeans, all those bright colours and music even on the greyest of our days it is so full of cheer and positive energy.

Maybe it is because we have little, we prefer to absorb other's cultures.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 5/29/2010 5:33:27 AM >

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RE: What is culture? - 5/29/2010 5:32:52 AM

Moonhead

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A country's culture either evolves or dies. If it isn't in flux, then isn't viable. Look at it this way: the acadamie francais hasn't done the French language any favours at all, has it?

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RE: What is culture? - 5/29/2010 5:35:00 AM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
things like the morris

"Moorish" dancing is actually a jihadist thing. There was an islamic influx into the country during the middle ages as well.

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RE: What is culture? - 5/29/2010 5:39:55 AM

pahunkboy

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I dont know. I just want to live in a quiet area.

No night life is fine with me.

retirees make great neighbors.

I used to live in the good part... but had to move across the river- (finances) things are more casual on this side- but we have to fight- outsiders who migrate in thinking we like 3 AM parties- cars up on blocks- and domestic fights in the street. My immediate block has improved on keeping the riff raff out.

But I sure would like to ban fucken dogs in this town.

I am just passing thru. I love this valley. I dont want to live near, gays, yuppies, or party crowd. But this is me for this stage of my life-
\
When neighborhoods collide- there in is a problem- at one time I DID want that. But not these days.

So the issue is more of a good fit-- rather then which culture is "right".

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RE: What is culture? - 5/29/2010 6:13:23 AM

Aneirin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
things like the morris

"Moorish" dancing is actually a jihadist thing. There was an islamic influx into the country during the middle ages as well.

I know, but thanks, it is one of the things I use when confronted with a young immigrant from those regions when they feel dissafected about their identity in modern Britain, and other pieces of history as recorded by both Greek and Roman writers on their descriptions of the Britons when they encountered them.One report describes the people as dark and swarthy, so I leave them with that and the fact that the iconic celts might well have originated from the Indo Iranian plateau. I believe we are in fact all the same, we have a common ancestry and they have just as much right to be in the lands of their ancestors as we have.

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RE: What is culture? - 5/29/2010 6:15:20 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

A country's culture either evolves or dies. If it isn't in flux, then isn't viable. Look at it this way: the acadamie francais hasn't done the French language any favours at all, has it?

Québec's Office de la langue française actually does more work in preserving the French language than the French do.

Edited to add that I do agree with you about the flux. A country is essentially a system within a larger system, it's culture a sub-system. All systems must have inputs and outputs to keep them in movement otherwise they die.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 5/29/2010 6:18:13 AM >

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RE: What is culture? - 5/29/2010 6:23:34 AM

Moonhead

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I wouldn't be at all surprised. Mind you, don't the French take quite a dismissive attitude towards the Canadian version of the language? Maybe if it's less static, that's the reason for that.

Aneirin: there's a hell of a lot of debate about where the celts came from originally, but yes, the Middle east is one of the likelier suspects.

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RE: What is culture? - 5/29/2010 6:31:16 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I wouldn't be at all surprised. Mind you, don't the French take quite a dismissive attitude towards the Canadian version of the language? Maybe if it's less static, that's the reason for that.

Of course they do! They wouldn't be French if they didn't! That said, most French citizens who are preoccupied with the preservation of the integrity of the French language do acknowledge this fact.

I think language should evolved and there is nothing wrong with integrating English or other words in our language. But why say "le management" when the word "gestion" as been around for ages. They think that by adding a little le or la in front of an English term and saying with a French accent that they are being cool or something.

- LA

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RE: What is culture? - 5/29/2010 6:36:36 AM

Silence8

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

It is something I have been thinking about since the election. One of the big issues was immigration and people 'coming over here and not respecting our culture' it made me wonder what English or British culture is, and I am still not sure.

I am not looking for dictionary definitions but personal ones, what do you think culture is? Where does it come from? What would you describe as cultural in the area/country you live in?

'Culture is what happens when you're not allowed to fuck your mother.' -Levi Strauss [slightly paraphrased]

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)

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RE: What is culture? - 5/29/2010 6:48:38 AM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I wouldn't be at all surprised. Mind you, don't the French take quite a dismissive attitude towards the Canadian version of the language? Maybe if it's less static, that's the reason for that.

Of course they do! They wouldn't be French if they didn't! That said, most French citizens who are preoccupied with the preservation of the integrity of the French language do acknowledge this fact.

I think language should evolved and there is nothing wrong with integrating English or other words in our language. But why say "le management" when the word "gestion" as been around for ages. They think that by adding a little le or la in front of an English term and saying with a French accent that they are being cool or something.

- LA

Absolutely.
Americans speaking English has given that one a leg up, but I think the interplay between the two versions (actually, rather more versions than that: the Australian version has a lot to add to the mix as well) is doing an awful lot to keep the language vital, which doesn't hurt either. It wouldn't be a bad thing at all if the academie loosened their grip on French a bit and started to pay attention to other flavours of their language instead of dismissing them all out of hand as hideous abominations.

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 5/29/2010 6:49:44 AM >

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RE: What is culture? - 5/29/2010 7:20:56 AM

NorthernGent

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The things that strike me about England.....things that set it out from other countries I've been to are.....

The value placed on privacy....which leads to tolerance being at the forefront of people's minds....though not necessarily acceptance.

The value placed on the home.....you go to many other countries and it's normal for acquaintances or work friends to be invited into someone else's home for tea or whatever. Whereas here....the norm is that only good friends are invited in.....possibly something to do with the weather as to why we place such a high value on home privacy and comfort.....spend a lot of time in doors.....

Consistently caught on the fence.....born to compromise.....which can be a problem for decision making....but the English are a people who tend to see both sides of the argument.

An extraordinary capacity for hypocrisy........as a nation that is....

Sense of humour....it's not that we're funnier than anyone else but humour runs deep through everything we do...at work...at home....in every walk of life.......more a matter of quantity than anything else.....

And of course 'the pub'....

But for a short answer....I'd go with the definition of Englishness being unsure of what Englishness actually is.....which leads to the idea that we're not a people who conform to a series of rules.....which leads back to privacy and home comforts....which is the reason why some foreigners who come to these shores see us as impossible misanthropes....which isn't the case at all...it's just that the pub and the home is the time and the place.

Oh and edited to add: a disorderly working class.....some of the comments from famous continental European vistors over the centuries are illuminating......many shocked at the apparent lawlessness of large sections of the population. You have to smile when foreigners get round to saying something like: "ermmm it ain't like we imagined......you know...tea in the afternoon and all that....a bit rougher than we expected".

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 5/29/2010 7:27:15 AM >

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RE: What is culture? - 5/29/2010 7:24:59 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

When you move there, you become an American. The whole social structure of the society is to adopt the American way of life. Canada however is a mosaic which follows the principle that we become richer by having immigrants bring their cultural diversity to our country for us to learn from and integrate. I cannot speak about other nations on this matter as I have no informed myself as to their immigrant integration philosophies.

One of the things I love most about this country is the cultural diversity it has. I am truly sorry you don't see this. Not surprised, but sorry. It seems many on the boards have a fixed idea of how things operate here and from their comments I think most of those ideas come from hollywood.

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RE: What is culture? - 5/29/2010 7:43:53 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

Sense of humour....it's not that we're funnier than anyone else but humour runs deep through everything we do...at work...at home....in every walk of life.......more a matter of quantity than anything else.....

Actually British humour is the funniest humour in my opinion. Hands down.

- LA

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RE: What is culture? - 5/29/2010 7:46:51 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

When you move there, you become an American. The whole social structure of the society is to adopt the American way of life. Canada however is a mosaic which follows the principle that we become richer by having immigrants bring their cultural diversity to our country for us to learn from and integrate. I cannot speak about other nations on this matter as I have no informed myself as to their immigrant integration philosophies.

One of the things I love most about this country is the cultural diversity it has. I am truly sorry you don't see this. Not surprised, but sorry. It seems many on the boards have a fixed idea of how things operate here and from their comments I think most of those ideas come from hollywood.

I see cultural diversity in the US, but it is fundamentally different than cultural diversity in Canada. This is not solely my opinion. It is a widely written about subject. Google The Canadian Mosaic vs. The U.S. Melting Pot.

Also, you live in Detroit, right up against the Canadian border. You might have a different perspective than others.

- LA

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RE: What is culture? - 5/29/2010 9:20:00 AM

Arpig

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quote:

I think language should evolved and there is nothing wrong with integrating English or other words in our language. But why say "le management" when the word "gestion" as been around for ages. They think that by adding a little le or la in front of an English term and saying with a French accent that they are being cool or something.

I don't know, I kinda like the franglais...one time I was shopping and there was a bird in the store and a francophone family noticed it and one of them said: "Regard la 'tit birdie, comme il est cute"

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RE: What is culture? - 5/29/2010 9:22:12 AM

pahunkboy

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LA/I see cultural diversity in the US, but it is fundamentally different than cultural diversity in Canada. This is not solely my opinion. It is a widely written about subject. Google The Canadian Mosaic vs. The U.S. Melting Pot./snip

That will change. There is no room for local control under the New World Order.

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RE: What is culture? - 5/29/2010 9:26:13 AM

LadyEllen

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Culture is an all encompassing description in my view which incorporates all that distinguishes one people from another and has roots lost in time. Language, religion and law are probably the most original features, (and are in fact one when looking back far enough), inherent to the people wherever they might be, undergoing evolution peculiar to them which may cause them to split from time to time into distinct peoples, whether this is cooperative evolution or confrontational evolution promoted by interaction with environment or other peoples.

Flowing from those original features are the remainder of what is culture - and perhaps that which we today would describe as culture, especially arts, customs, dress and cuisine.

The reason for hostility to other peoples' cultures as they are introduced to the UK in particular is tied up entirely with the apparent degradation to the native culture inherent in the notion of multi-culturalism, a model adopted by the way to deliberately inhibit integration with a view to those incoming peoples going home once they were no longer needed.

Whether such degradation is present or active or not, it is the perception that other cultures are being promoted that has this effect - and the perception derives from the fact that special measures have been introduced which appear to value foreign cultures but are ignorant to the native. Translations of just about everything into incomers' languages, actions by incomers that may be legal or illegal but which go against the native cultural values, the growing visibility of their religions and the insistence of incomers on dressing according to their cultures' norms contribute to this perception.

These perceptions lead to resentment of incomers and their availability for the purposes of scape-goating. In truth the "racism" debate is not about race at all but about culture.

Multi-culturalism promoted as a public policy must end so that the natural processes of cultural evolution may act and native and incomer cultures can integrate, producing a new synthesis that becomes British culture, including the tolerance of British culture for individual peculiarities without which we should not be British.

E

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