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Why do we ask? - 5/31/2010 4:16:37 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		I have noticed something about many posts started on CM, they are often long and well thought out musing. The thing is to structure this kind of [question you need to start with your own answer. You can see it through the thread, whenever someone answers the way the OP wanted it to be answered they say 'great post' or some similar comment. I know that I couldn't ask anything about my own life in any real capacity because I would not have a clue what to ask. I don't know if that makes sense but I know a lot about myself but I have no clue why I seem almost terminally single, if I knew why then I could ask about it but as I don't where would I even start?

It got me wondering why do we ask? Is it about affirmation? Do we really want to open debate? This isn't about simply asking where to get a new ball gag or whatever I am talking about analytical threads.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either
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RE: Why do we ask? - 5/31/2010 4:37:40 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		As I'm sure most counsellors and folks in similar professions will agree that we ask a personal question to another by using them as a sounding board. Mostly, we really don't want or indeed need the answer because the action of asking that question aloud (or writing it out), often triggers the answer we seek. The opinions and commentaries of others may help us to gain insight on alternatives, it may show possible shortfall and potholes and in some cases it give affirmation to our original thought (Not altogether a bad thing either). Of course as I read the CM forums I also see the responses from complete arseholes (one regularly) and from narcissistic wankers (two posting regularly these days). Mind you the arsehole and wanker labels are my personal opinion of three people only, others will have their own assessments. Suffice it to say with the wanker and arsehole classification, I would never take anything they posted into account even if I were to actually tread a word they write. 

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
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RE: Why do we ask? - 5/31/2010 4:40:03 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Standard answer really Lilly...reasons depending upon the character of the person asking.

There are closed minds and then there are open minds......

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Why do we ask? - 5/31/2010 4:42:16 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		I don't see many threads started by you NG but which category do you think you would fall into?

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to NorthernGent)
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RE: Why do we ask? - 5/31/2010 4:48:50 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

I don't see many threads started by you NG but which category do you think you would fall into?



Oh I dunno.....not being evasive Lilly....but I suppose there's not a great deal of value in declaring myself to be the most enlightened mind since Machiavelli.....you'd need to know me I suppose......

What about you? It's your thread......presumably the way your mind works interests you.....I wouldn't have you down as a closed mind at all.....

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
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RE: Why do we ask? - 5/31/2010 4:52:15 AM   
jbcurious


Posts: 717
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline 		Sometimes I'm not even sure of the question that I'm seeking an answer for. By putting out my thoughts and the direction they're going...someone more experienced see's where I'm going and all of a sudden, there's my question.

The different views and aspects that people have often give me a new way of looking at something.

When people affirm what you're thinking, it's comforting to know there are others out there who feel the same.

I've had several "a ha" moments in threads and have learned a lot about myself and my choice to pursue this lifestyle.

_____________________________

'Smile... it's the second best thing to do with your lips.'


I have an explosive personality...


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RE: Why do we ask? - 5/31/2010 4:53:01 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		No I think I can write very cynical posts where I am trying to elicit a response be it sympathy or compliments or a way to take a swipe at someone I don't agree with. Sometimes it is genuine interest in what other people think about something, I think you are right I am interested in the way my mind works but what I find more interesting is the way that other people's minds seem to work in different ways.

I think it is the cynical posts that interest me though, whether people are aware that is what they are doing whether it is a conscious thing or it happens when they start getting comments they don't agree with.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to NorthernGent)
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RE: Why do we ask? - 5/31/2010 5:09:41 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

No I think I can write very cynical posts where I am trying to elicit a response be it sympathy or compliments or a way to take a swipe at someone I don't agree with. Sometimes it is genuine interest in what other people think about something, I think you are right I am interested in the way my mind works but what I find more interesting is the way that other people's minds seem to work in different ways.

I think it is the cynical posts that interest me though, whether people are aware that is what they are doing whether it is a conscious thing or it happens when they start getting comments they don't agree with.



Does this mean you've just taken a swipe at me?! Hmmmm.......best be treading carefully around you in future.....

If you believe you (or anyone else) is defined by the mind.....then ideas define you.......and so identity is wrapped up in ideas....which leads to people being closed to taking on board an alternative ideas....ideas built upon better foundations than the established ones....with identity being pretty important and all.

But then I suppose I'm quite cynical (consciously) about the idea that we're all reasonable human beings running round sharing ideas in the pursuit of knowledge and self-improvement.....

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
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RE: Why do we ask? - 5/31/2010 5:15:42 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbcurious

Sometimes I'm not even sure of the question that I'm seeking an answer for. By putting out my thoughts and the direction they're going...someone more experienced see's where I'm going and all of a sudden, there's my question.


Thats an interesting point, there have been occasions that my posts have been more about informing than asking, that I feel I have to ask something at the end because thats the nature of the boards but actually its just that I want somewhere to write down my opinion or thoughts on something

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Does this mean you've just taken a swipe at me?! Hmmmm.......best be treading carefully around you in future.....


Ha, nope.

quote:


If you believe you (or anyone else) is defined by the mind.....then ideas define you.......and so identity is wrapped up in ideas....which leads to people being closed to taking on board an alternative ideas....ideas built upon better foundations than the established ones....with identity being pretty important and all.

But then I suppose I'm quite cynical (consciously) about the idea that we're all reasonable human beings running round sharing ideas in the pursuit of knowledge and self-improvement.....


I think we are defined by many things, the mind is one of them yes, but I don't think that by definition means being closed to other ideas, although I don't think that it is easy to change someones view point, you can present facts to people but they will often stick to what they initially thought. The process of changing attitudes is a long one I am not sure there are many people who will change their view due to one well written post.

I think also that many people do pursue knowledge but I am not sure that this is the place that people do it. At the end of the day we are all just a collection of people and basically all we write is our opinions which can all be argued and broken down by other peoples opinions.




_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to NorthernGent)
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RE: Why do we ask? - 5/31/2010 5:30:35 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

you can present facts to people but they will often stick to what they initially thought.



And where the facts aren't disputed.....but rather the discussion centres on the conclusion to be drawn from the facts......then on what do people draw their conclusions? Presumably their personal experiences....in other words identity? or something entirely different? 

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Why do we ask? - 5/31/2010 5:38:06 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

you can present facts to people but they will often stick to what they initially thought.



And where the facts aren't disputed.....but rather the discussion centres on the conclusion to be drawn from the facts......then on what do people draw their conclusions? Presumably their personal experiences....in other words identity? or something entirely different?


Thats an interesting one, something I noticed when I was debating politics before the election people would bring up the same thing as an argument to which they would draw different conclusions, the one that sticks out was Thatcher selling off the council houses, some people used that as a good thing some as a bad.

I am not sure where they get it from, maybe personal experience as you say but in relation to things like that I think it is a little more complex, understanding is formed in layers, there is things we actually go though then things we are told then things we read then indoctrination of ideas I dunno maybe politics is a bit of a complex one.

So simpler and more related to this thread, we have attitudes associated with facts. A girl is a size twelve some people see that as fat some as thin some as average, the fact is a fixed thing but the association with it is different. I don't have a clue where it comes from though, in that instance it could be self confidence or media influence or whatever, when its external say a man it could again be media then it could also be personal preference which could be made up of any number of things.

Its I guess how a thread on here can get away from itself, the initial thought could be simple to the OP but the tangents and divergence could go in directions that never crossed the op's mind

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to NorthernGent)
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RE: Why do we ask? - 5/31/2010 6:32:43 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline 		LillyoftheVally,

quote:

I know that I couldn't ask anything about my own life in any real capacity because I would not have a clue what to ask. I don't know if that makes sense but I know a lot about myself but I have no clue why I seem almost terminally single, if I knew why then I could ask about it but as I don't where would I even start?


I don't find it strange. I rarely create threads and that probably won't change. But my wiring is different and I believe it's important for me to find my own answers. I may bounce something off a friend but I don't present it in a forum. There's also the understanding that answers come in varying forms. Oftentimes I make discoveries when providing a response for someone else.

In terms of being single, I can't tell you why because I'm not acquainted with you. But I generally start out by asking what's my payoff. What do you get out of being single - the positives- and the hidden benefits that you might be clinging on to that validate lifestyle, fears, beliefs, etc. People purport to want a many thing, but if you ever peer closer you'll discover they are usually the greatest obstacle to success in those situations. Sometimes intentionally and other instances not so much.

quote:

It got me wondering why do we ask? Is it about affirmation? Do we really want to open debate? This isn't about simply asking where to get a new ball gag or whatever I am talking about analytical threads.


I believe it's a combination. Sometimes for intellectual discourse. Or to solicit different viewpoints that offset or clarify ones own. A desire for knowledge, boredom, armchair psychology sessions, laziness, and those that always look outside of themselves for solutions.

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

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RE: Why do we ask? - 5/31/2010 8:37:45 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		This is easy for me. I ask because I am a writer. I ask because I want to know the thought process behind answers I do not understand. I think about everything. Even when I was a bouncer I analysed my target before I took it out. If one can understand the process behind another persons statement, it becomes more digestible. I am rarely swayed simply because in all likelihood I have been there and discovered not everything is like I believed it to be.
When I do write, it is not to change my mind, it is to present a case someone may not have considered.

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RE: Why do we ask? - 5/31/2010 12:13:55 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

I am not sure where they get it from



Yeah.....it's a tricky one Lilly....who knows what's going on behind the persona....

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
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RE: Why do we ask? - 5/31/2010 12:59:51 PM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline 		Newcomers to the forms tend to ask direct simple questions without a lot of "decoration" around the edges, even about very complex non-ballgag-shopping issues. Maybe it's just a social habit that some people pick up after being here a while? They see others doing it and unconsciously imitate them? It might have started when a few people did it because they liked to and others noticed how popular those threads got so they started doing it too.

The example your bring up is interesting. If you want to know from others in a group why they think you are terminally single, you just start a thread, "Why am I terminally single?" and let the answers roll in. There's no need to know anything extra in order to pose a question like that. Sure, without much more information, a lot of the answers you will get will be off the mark. But maybe someone would say something randomly useful. If it is hard to imagine that you could get sometime good out of a very simple question, then you create a self-fulfilling prophecy by not asking it or by waiting until you can surrond it with textual decoration. There is no need to do any of this. Just ask and you might even get better answers without all the carefully intellectualized frou-ha-ha distracting people from the main point.

BTW, I think that your impression that you are terminally single has nothing to do with anything you are doing or not doing. You are just single at this time so it appears terminal. It's fairly common for people in your age group to be single. 10-20 years from now the question will likely be meaningless for you personally and and you will have a hard time imagining or remembering why you asked it, as you will have been partnered in some form or another for so long. Then much later, in your 6th-8th decade, you'lll probably be single again again, but at that time you'll know why it's happening.

What's really going on when someone asks a long question like that? Hard to say. Sometimes it's undoubtedly social-group affiirmation seeking and they really don't need an answer. That's normally what people do in all groups, pretty much all the time. It's what groups are for--maybe affirmation-seeking is an abstraction of primate grooming behavior? ;) Other times someone may be doing it because they think they are following the proper protocols by dressing up their questions that way. And still others do it because they think it is fun to do, and like to hear themselves type, so to speak (cough).

While most new posters do not do decorate their questions, a few do--probably after observing that it's one of the standard group practices. But if they haven't studied this group and its stylistic norms carefully enough, they often get the "tone" wrong (in all forums there are slight variations in nuance in one's text presentations, which the group is highly sensitive to and which tell the group whether the writer is an insider or an outsider/stranger/newbie). Getting these presentational nuances wrong is kind of like a bird getting its mating dance wrong by a few feather flicks and then the female flies off. In a forum, newcomers who screw up how they say things are inevitably rejected/ridiculed for that.

In fact, if they excite a forum's "pet peeves" with their writing style, few people hear what they are actually saying, I've noticed. Fairly gross, bordering on ludricous, errors of misinterpretation start to occur on the parts of their readers. Upset that the message is stylistically off, the readers start projecting their own issues into the unfortunate writer's words, rather than hearing anything s/he is actually saying. The total loss (on the readers' parts) of any ability to grasp normal humor when it comes from that writer, is particularly noteworthy. It's as if whatever part of their brain that controls humor perception totally shuts down--but only in relation to that one person. Anyway, I'm rambling. But I find all this robotic behavior that people (including myself, of course) engage in when in groups to be very interesting.

_____________________________

"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

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RE: Why do we ask? - 5/31/2010 1:02:20 PM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks CaringandReal, I didn't really consider that aspect myself and I think you may well have a point.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to CaringandReal)
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RE: Why do we ask? - 5/31/2010 1:48:52 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		I rarely start threads, but when I have I think it has been because it's something about me that I'm struggling to define and having the topic out there allows me to see other people's views and thoughts. I don't take anyone here's advice as gospel as they don't know me at all, but it does happen often that someone will express something in a way I hadn't thought of and I will be able to apply that to myself and learn from it.

I am really of the opinion that we never stop learning about ourselves and others.

I am also of the opinion that there are people that cannot learn because they are uncomfortable with the very idea that a part of them may be something they don't like.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: Why do we ask? - 5/31/2010 9:57:26 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR - jumpthrough -

"ideas built upon better foundations than the established ones"

Realize that said statement resonates with my entire being.

T

(in reply to NorthernGent)
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RE: Why do we ask? - 6/1/2010 3:54:44 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		When I first started using the message boards here, I would post threads on topics that I had never really talked at length before. I wanted to get some additional perspectives and insight into some of my own past experiences and see where things fit in or added up. Mainly, because I have a Masochistic facet. It's a little confusing to be a Dominant yet have the desire for pain. Also, I had been in a relationship with a Domme before and I neither one of us was submissive, yet we had this amazing chemistry and it was anything but vanilla. lol.. So yeah, I slide my toes in the waters here. Some really excellent responses and some very wonderful people.

While I have had breaks away from posting on the message boards, I have always read things being posted over the years.

When I start a thread now days, I generally try to not go into a lot of deeply personal details, however I'm basically looking for thoughts. Just using it for a sounding board and see what comes back at me. This is easier said than done though. Because I try not to fully explain everything or all the aspects of what is going on. I try to toss up the bare minimal information I feel is required. At best, I try to correct any major misunderstandings as best I can and reassert the question.

At the moment, I'm very much less open about my life currently compared to a few years ago.

I'm really not certain why I'm sticking around on here much at the moment. I really don't have any earth shattering questions about BDSM..and I'm pretty comfortable with having resolved previous issues. In the last 10 monthes though it's been tough loosing people close to me. I've been telling people that they don't have my permission to die on me any time soon, that they need my permission first. (a bit of humor in the middle of death). Two of these deaths were suicide, and ironic as it is, I was pretty accepting of the reasons behind these two deaths. My father passed away the 1st of May, the whole month was crazy. A lot of extremely Bad and Good things all happening none stop. All and All, I'm pretty much at peace with it, perhaps a little tired and glad the month came to an end.

Anyways, I'm not even certain what Questions I myself have to start a thread with. I could share an experience I recently had, but Ummmm.. think I'm going to sit on it for another time or wait until an applicable thread to start up.

In regards to affirmation, I really don't see myself as seeking that at all at the moment. I'm sort of engaging in debates here and there, but I'm not into over analyzing either. There have been a number of threads started up lately where things are being over analyzed and ripped apart. I don't know, I often think that people are making things way more complex than needed at times.



_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
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